What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

User avatar
Inocudom
Member
Posts: 3121
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 01:14
IRC: Inocudom
In-game: Inocudom

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Inocudom » Post

celeron55 wrote:Image
Celeron55 posted this image in the Post Your Screenshots thread. It must mean something about Minetest's future.

User avatar
MirceaKitsune
Member
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 22:31
GitHub: MirceaKitsune
IRC: Taoki
In-game: MirceaKitsune
Location: Romania, Bucharest

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Post

Inocudom wrote:
Celeron55 posted this image in the Post Your Screenshots thread. It must mean something about Minetest's future.
It means the end. Erm... not the end of Minetest's future! I mean that screenshot looks like The End.

User avatar
PilzAdam
Member
Posts: 4026
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 16:19
GitHub: PilzAdam
IRC: PilzAdam
Location: Germany

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by PilzAdam » Post

Inocudom wrote:
celeron55 wrote:Image
Celeron55 posted this image in the Post Your Screenshots thread. It must mean something about Minetest's future.
The signs! They are everywhere!
Soilnar!

Jordach
Member
Posts: 4534
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 17:58
GitHub: Jordach
IRC: Jordach
In-game: Jordach
Location: Blender Scene

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Jordach » Post

PilzAdam wrote:
Inocudom wrote:
celeron55 wrote:Image
Celeron55 posted this image in the Post Your Screenshots thread. It must mean something about Minetest's future.
The signs! They are everywhere!
Soilnar!
Even I've played Soilnar, and it's the best game ever!

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

It is a nice game.



Could have an 'alientest'
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Johnyknowhow
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:17
In-game: Minetestian
Location: Washington, USA

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Johnyknowhow » Post

One thing I cannot stand about MT, is all the lag. In MC even when servers lag, you still get instant responses to items in your inventory. You don't have to wait 15 seconds for that iron to go into the furnace, or wait a minute since the signs you placed are still not editable. Frustrates me so much, I explode, and I have to build a house every monday. (just kidding)
Its still very frustrating to have to wait ages for stuff to happen, and have players "teleporting" around instead of walking.
Also I think there needs to be a better entity system, you know that time when you hit a mob, and keep hitting it, yet, it only took damage the first time? eg, *hit* -damage- *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* -damage- *hit*... Very frustrating.

User avatar
Johnyknowhow
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:17
In-game: Minetestian
Location: Washington, USA

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Johnyknowhow » Post

Erm, I just realized this topic was 4 pages long, and not 1. Oops.

User avatar
Johnyknowhow
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:17
In-game: Minetestian
Location: Washington, USA

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Johnyknowhow » Post

Oh nevermind, I was going to post something about mcmmo until I realized calinou already talked about it.

User avatar
Evergreen
Member
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:22
GitHub: 4Evergreen4
IRC: EvergreenTree
In-game: Evergreen
Location: A forest in the midwest
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evergreen » Post

Johnyknowhow wrote:One thing I cannot stand about MT, is all the lag. In MC even when servers lag, you still get instant responses to items in your inventory. You don't have to wait 15 seconds for that iron to go into the furnace, or wait a minute since the signs you placed are still not editable. Frustrates me so much, I explode, and I have to build a house every monday. (just kidding)
Its still very frustrating to have to wait ages for stuff to happen, and have players "teleporting" around instead of walking.
Also I think there needs to be a better entity system, you know that time when you hit a mob, and keep hitting it, yet, it only took damage the first time? eg, *hit* -damage- *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* -damage- *hit*... Very frustrating.
The reason is that the movement of items in the inventory is handled server side. That means if the server is lagging, it makes it that way in the inventory too. It's more secure.

User avatar
Johnyknowhow
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:17
In-game: Minetestian
Location: Washington, USA

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Johnyknowhow » Post

Evergreen wrote:
Johnyknowhow wrote:One thing I cannot stand about MT, is all the lag. In MC even when servers lag, you still get instant responses to items in your inventory. You don't have to wait 15 seconds for that iron to go into the furnace, or wait a minute since the signs you placed are still not editable. Frustrates me so much, I explode, and I have to build a house every monday. (just kidding)
Its still very frustrating to have to wait ages for stuff to happen, and have players "teleporting" around instead of walking.
Also I think there needs to be a better entity system, you know that time when you hit a mob, and keep hitting it, yet, it only took damage the first time? eg, *hit* -damage- *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* -damage- *hit*... Very frustrating.
The reason is that the movement of items in the inventory is handled server side. That means if the server is lagging, it makes it that way in the inventory too. It's more secure.
Even though its more secure, its more laggy, and its scaring players away. And there must be a better way to handle it.

User avatar
GingerHunter797
Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 15:36
In-game: GingerHunter797
Location: Indiana

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GingerHunter797 » Post

Inocudom wrote:
celeron55 wrote:Image
Celeron55 posted this image in the Post Your Screenshots thread. It must mean something about Minetest's future.
Is this gonna be in the next version?
http://i.imgur.com/gqXXUaI.png

3DS Friend Code: 2122-7173-2797
Add me as a friend! :D

Want to play a fun game? http://voxelands.com/

User avatar
Calinou
Moderator
Posts: 3169
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 14:26
GitHub: Calinou
IRC: Calinou
In-game: Calinou
Location: Troyes, France
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Post

Johnyknowhow wrote:One thing I cannot stand about MT, is all the lag. In MC even when servers lag, you still get instant responses to items in your inventory. You don't have to wait 15 seconds for that iron to go into the furnace, or wait a minute since the signs you placed are still not editable. Frustrates me so much, I explode, and I have to build a house every monday. (just kidding)
The inventory itself is predicted, but not containers. Anyway, you should play on less laggy servers. 15 seconds is not playable at all. ;)

Minecraft also lacks chat prediction. The game feels much more responsive with it. :)
Johnyknowhow wrote:Also I think there needs to be a better entity system, you know that time when you hit a mob, and keep hitting it, yet, it only took damage the first time? eg, *hit* -damage- *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* *hit* -damage- *hit*... Very frustrating.
You are not supposed to spam mouse clicks. Wait some time, ideally the full punch interval (0.9 to 1.4 seconds depending on the tool used in the default game). Debug mode (F5) lets you see entity health. Also, there's no point in hugging the mob while attackng them, you can be up to 4 blocks away and still attack it.
Evergreen wrote:The reason is that the movement of items in the inventory is handled server side. That means if the server is lagging, it makes it that way in the inventory too. It's more secure.
More secure? Prediction has nothing to do with cheaty-ness.
Minecraft, before Beta 1.0 (2010-12-20) had client-side inventories, which means players could get any item they wanted. This was never possible in Minetest. ;)

User avatar
Johnyknowhow
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:17
In-game: Minetestian
Location: Washington, USA

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Johnyknowhow » Post

In singleplayer I still get that laggy response. I'ts just not the same as MC.

User avatar
Calinou
Moderator
Posts: 3169
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 14:26
GitHub: Calinou
IRC: Calinou
In-game: Calinou
Location: Troyes, France
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Post

Johnyknowhow wrote:In singleplayer I still get that laggy response. I'ts just not the same as MC.
It should not – provided your PC is fast enough. Here, Minetest feels less laggy than Minecraft (when I played it).

User avatar
Wuzzy
Member
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 15:01
GitHub: Wuzzy2
IRC: Wuzzy
In-game: Wuzzy
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Wuzzy » Post

Here, Minetest feels less laggy than Minecraft (when I played it).
For me, too! (Yes, I admit! I tried MC once a while ago but it was simply unplayable.)
Maybe Johnyknowhow meant Minetest is still not as much laggy as Minecraft, so more lag should be added as a feature. xD

User avatar
GingerHunter797
Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 15:36
In-game: GingerHunter797
Location: Indiana

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GingerHunter797 » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Here, Minetest feels less laggy than Minecraft (when I played it).
For me, too! (Yes, I admit! I tried MC once a while ago but it was simply unplayable.)
Maybe Johnyknowhow meant Minetest is still not as much laggy as Minecraft, so more lag should be added as a feature. xD
The most recent MC updates have cut down the lag quite significantly, I remember around 1.4.7 when I would get horrible lag spikes all over the place. Now (1.7.9) I play with a ussually solid 20-30 fps. In Minetest playing under Windows 7(64-bit) I get a maximum of 10 fps. Playing under Linux (Zorin OS 8 and Ubuntu 14.04) I would get the opposite. I also lag on the inventory screen while playing under Windows. Just thought I would share my experiences with lag in comparison to the two games :)
http://i.imgur.com/gqXXUaI.png

3DS Friend Code: 2122-7173-2797
Add me as a friend! :D

Want to play a fun game? http://voxelands.com/

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

On some servers there is actual lag of about 30 seconds for me.

Not low FPS (I don't go below 30FPS that much), actual server client lag.

A client lua api would be good as a way to reduce lag.
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Calinou
Moderator
Posts: 3169
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 14:26
GitHub: Calinou
IRC: Calinou
In-game: Calinou
Location: Troyes, France
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Post

rubenwardy wrote:On some servers there is actual lag of about 30 seconds for me.

Not low FPS (I don't go below 30FPS that much), actual server client lag.
These servers are probably running out of RAM, writing player files all the time or having a slow CPU. Their connection could also be congested.
rubenwardy wrote:A client lua api would be good as a way to reduce lag.
Why? Reducing perceived lag doesn't need client-side Lua modding: the prediction can often be done in C++.

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

Calinou wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:On some servers there is actual lag of about 30 seconds for me.

Not low FPS (I don't go below 30FPS that much), actual server client lag.
These servers are probably running out of RAM, writing player files all the time or having a slow CPU. Their connection could also be congested.
rubenwardy wrote:A client lua api would be good as a way to reduce lag.
Why? Reducing perceived lag doesn't need client-side Lua modding: the prediction can often be done in C++.
C++ is the bare minimum for this, and would be sufficient. A client side API would be for mods to reduce their lag. For example, immersive sounds only on client. Or simple formspec reactions, like toggling a button's text.

The client side API would have to have no access to the clients file system to be secure.
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
onpon4
Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 01:54
GitHub: onpon4
In-game: diligentcircle
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by onpon4 » Post

rubenwardy wrote:C++ is the bare minimum for this, and would be sufficient. A client side API would be for mods to reduce their lag. For example, immersive sounds only on client. Or simple formspec reactions, like toggling a button's text.

The client side API would have to have no access to the clients file system to be secure.
It sounds like you're proposing mods that get automatically downloaded and installed on the client, like JavaScript. I'm going to have to strongly oppose this idea regardless of whether or not harming the users on the client side is possible. See The JavaScript Trap. I do not want the equivalent to the JavaScript trap in Minetest or any other game I play. Any client-side mods need to be installed by the user of the client, not sent over from some server, and especially not sent over from some server automatically.

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by rubenwardy » Post

onpon4 wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:C++ is the bare minimum for this, and would be sufficient. A client side API would be for mods to reduce their lag. For example, immersive sounds only on client. Or simple formspec reactions, like toggling a button's text.

The client side API would have to have no access to the clients file system to be secure.
It sounds like you're proposing mods that get automatically downloaded and installed on the client, like JavaScript. I'm going to have to strongly oppose this idea regardless of whether or not harming the users on the client side is possible. See The JavaScript Trap. I do not want the equivalent to the JavaScript trap in Minetest or any other game I play. Any client-side mods need to be installed by the user of the client, not sent over from some server, and especially not sent over from some server automatically.
Any of these mods would need to be optional. There would be three ways to do this:
  • Server suggests that the client installs a mod, the client can accept or deny. (through a dialog).
  • Client installs a mod voluntarily, server just has support.
  • Client installs a mod voluntarily, server does not need to support.
I don't see the JavaScript trap as a problem. If you are saying it is a legal issue, than it is not. Fair use covers this. If it is an ethical consideration, then I understand.
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

Evolykane
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 16:22

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evolykane » Post

The big, big, big Problem with minetest is, minetest was created for really bad Computers,
the aim of the devolopers is the highest possible performance.
This will subconsciously take the opportunity of the players with normal or good PCs to have a fun game play!

Why is the Mobfight boring in Minetest, but not in Minecraft?
In Minecraft you are fighting against liquid animated monsters while in Mintest a static mob object is flying towards you.
The reason is that in Minecraft much is calculated client side,so that the server has to carry much less load and secondly rapid liquid reactions and animations are made possible.

Another reason is that on the whole large Minecraft servers, there are city or guilds structures (such as Towny, Heroes).
Without the possibility to have a good organized competition of two or more groups of players (like guilds wars, who has the highest wealth, the largest population, or the largest city, and so on...) or the ability to play role-play like (level, Magic, mini-games, becoming stronger enemies, guild system ...).
If this Idea goes on minetest will die no later than 10 years, when the computer from 1980 broke and also the poors have better computer at last.

For example I want to play Minetest with nice and fancy graphics,
please do a LUA Possibility for Code calculated Clientside, maybe with an option like "allow Clientside Calculation" for bad PC users.

sfan5
Moderator
Posts: 4094
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 09:44
GitHub: sfan5
IRC: sfan5
Location: Germany

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by sfan5 » Post

Evolykane wrote:LUA
It's called Lua, not LUA.
Mods: Mesecons | WorldEdit | Nuke & Minetest builds for Windows (32-bit & 64-bit)

User avatar
Calinou
Moderator
Posts: 3169
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 14:26
GitHub: Calinou
IRC: Calinou
In-game: Calinou
Location: Troyes, France
Contact:

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Post

Evolykane wrote:The big, big, big Problem with minetest is, minetest was created for really bad Computers,
the aim of the devolopers is the highest possible performance.
This will subconsciously take the opportunity of the players with normal or good PCs to have a fun game play!

Why is the Mobfight boring in Minetest, but not in Minecraft?
In Minecraft you are fighting against liquid animated monsters while in Mintest a static mob object is flying towards you.
The reason is that in Minecraft much is calculated client side,so that the server has to carry much less load and secondly rapid liquid reactions and animations are made possible.

Another reason is that on the whole large Minecraft servers, there are city or guilds structures (such as Towny, Heroes).
Without the possibility to have a good organized competition of two or more groups of players (like guilds wars, who has the highest wealth, the largest population, or the largest city, and so on...) or the ability to play role-play like (level, Magic, mini-games, becoming stronger enemies, guild system ...).
If this Idea goes on minetest will die no later than 10 years, when the computer from 1980 broke and also the poors have better computer at last.

For example I want to play Minetest with nice and fancy graphics,
please do a LUA Possibility for Code calculated Clientside, maybe with an option like "allow Clientside Calculation" for bad PC users.
The mobs are also server-side in Minecraft, but have some more prediction done on them. While useful, client-side Lua is quite overrated. What you want is more C++ stuff for prediction (see node placement prediction, entity position interpolation…).

Minetest works well, really well on modern high-end computers. Expect a constant 60 FPS there, with an high viewing range, even with multi-sample anti-aliasing enabled (Minecraft has no possibility to enable MSAA by default).

Evolykane
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 16:22

Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Evolykane » Post

Calinou wrote:
Evolykane wrote:The big, big, big Problem with minetest is, minetest was created for really bad Computers,
the aim of the devolopers is the highest possible performance.
This will subconsciously take the opportunity of the players with normal or good PCs to have a fun game play!

Why is the Mobfight boring in Minetest, but not in Minecraft?
In Minecraft you are fighting against liquid animated monsters while in Mintest a static mob object is flying towards you.
The reason is that in Minecraft much is calculated client side,so that the server has to carry much less load and secondly rapid liquid reactions and animations are made possible.

Another reason is that on the whole large Minecraft servers, there are city or guilds structures (such as Towny, Heroes).
Without the possibility to have a good organized competition of two or more groups of players (like guilds wars, who has the highest wealth, the largest population, or the largest city, and so on...) or the ability to play role-play like (level, Magic, mini-games, becoming stronger enemies, guild system ...).
If this Idea goes on minetest will die no later than 10 years, when the computer from 1980 broke and also the poors have better computer at last.

For example I want to play Minetest with nice and fancy graphics,
please do a LUA Possibility for Code calculated Clientside, maybe with an option like "allow Clientside Calculation" for bad PC users.
The mobs are also server-side in Minecraft, but have some more prediction done on them. While useful, client-side Lua is quite overrated. What you want is more C++ stuff for prediction (see node placement prediction, entity position interpolation…).

Minetest works well, really well on modern high-end computers. Expect a constant 60 FPS there, with an high viewing range, even with multi-sample anti-aliasing enabled (Minecraft has no possibility to enable MSAA by default).
My Pc is 3 Years old and not the best, but gets Minetest with constant 110 FPS with all options activated, I have no Problems with new features,
but because people with bad PCs, everybody must renounce such, this makes me angry and should change!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests