[OFFLINE][hungry_games_plus] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games

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IceAgeComing
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by IceAgeComing » Fri Jul 03, 2015 13:34

The glass wall in lobby should be made at least 1 higher, so people fcouldn't jump over it from parkour,while they are already dead. Bunch of people like to glitch their way into game like that, makes it really confusing.
Seeing already dead player run to you with armor and sword, not fun...
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Phiwari123 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 15:27

I completely agree with ice. It is confusing if dead players jump down in the game field
Lasst uns alle Bäume pflanzen, nackig durch die Wälder tanzen, Nahrung für die Bienen schaffen, Vogelhäuschen bau'n statt Waffen. Menschen, Tiere, Umwelt achten, statt nach Kohle nur zu trachten, Klima schützen, Frieden stiften, statt die Felder zu vergiften. Lasst uns alle viel mehr lachen, Strom aus Wind und Sonne machen, Erde retten klingt zwar schlicht, doch 'ne zweite gibt es nicht.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Fri Jul 03, 2015 16:48

you maybe could also override minetest.node_dig to make digging nodes impossible for usual players

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by firefox » Fri Jul 03, 2015 16:51

i used the ninja glitch to observe.
yes, i call it the "ninja glitch" because i sneaked into the map like a ninja.

you can see nothing from the lobby and usually you get killed every second because you respawn with only 1 hp.
maybe it is possible to make a feature that allows players to stay on the map as ghosts, so that they can watch the end of the game and haunt the ones who killed them.
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Phiwari123 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 17:29

firefox wrote:maybe it is possible to make a feature that allows players to stay on the map as ghosts, so that they can watch the end of the game and haunt the ones who killed them.


That would be quite cool :D
Lasst uns alle Bäume pflanzen, nackig durch die Wälder tanzen, Nahrung für die Bienen schaffen, Vogelhäuschen bau'n statt Waffen. Menschen, Tiere, Umwelt achten, statt nach Kohle nur zu trachten, Klima schützen, Frieden stiften, statt die Felder zu vergiften. Lasst uns alle viel mehr lachen, Strom aus Wind und Sonne machen, Erde retten klingt zwar schlicht, doch 'ne zweite gibt es nicht.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Fri Jul 03, 2015 19:48

Phiwari123 wrote:
firefox wrote:maybe it is possible to make a feature that allows players to stay on the map as ghosts, so that they can watch the end of the game and haunt the ones who killed them.


That would be quite cool :D

it is possible, you could e.g. try to make a floating eye using the camera offset function for players

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Wuzzy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 00:02

There is just one problem with that: AFAIK you can't disable or change the collisionbox of players, so it is not possible to fly around as a “spectator” and not influence the gameplay. At first, you would be just distracting other players, but you could also directly annoy them by blocking their path.

Besides, spectating is already possible in a very simple manner (spectators have fly and fast mode, cannot attack, but they have the exact same skin as players). It all depends on a setting. On this server, this is currently disabled.

About the suggested skins: Ghost appearance could probably be pretty easily made, basically just a reskin of the player model.
I am pretty sure there lies even a ghost model around here in some mob mod, so this might be used if it needs to be a little bit fancier.

Floating eye would probably very easy to make. The easiest way would be a cube. Why cube, because, hell, everything is a cube! Balls are lies. ;-) The only artistic work which would be needed would be up to 6 textures for the cube.

But as I said, my problem with using visible appearances for spectators is that they may be distracting from the game. But I am not sure, maybe let's just test it first? ;-)
Sadly, there is still the old collisionbox problem.

you maybe could also override minetest.node_dig to make digging nodes impossible for usual players

Please don't! Overwriting essential functions is crazy. Especially in this case, because it is completely senseless. Preventing digging is actually very easily done by getting the digging groups and the player tools right. All of this work has already been done a while ago. You are seeing a problem which does not exist.

The glass wall in lobby should be made at least 1 higher, so people fcouldn't jump over it from parkour,while they are already dead. Bunch of people like to glitch their way into game like that, makes it really confusing.

Yes. A wall in Minetest (with standard gravity/jumping parameters) is only safe with at least 3 nodes height. 2 is not enough, it can be climbed by using / abusing the sneak glitch.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by GunshipPenguin » Sat Jul 04, 2015 01:42

Phiwari123 wrote:I completely agree with ice. It is confusing if dead players jump down in the game field
firefox wrote:i used the ninja glitch to observe.
yes, i call it the "ninja glitch" because i sneaked into the map like a ninja.

you can see nothing from the lobby and usually you get killed every second because you respawn with only 1 hp.
maybe it is possible to make a feature that allows players to stay on the map as ghosts, so that they can watch the end of the game and haunt the ones who killed them.
IceAgeComing wrote:The glass wall in lobby should be made at least 1 higher, so people fcouldn't jump over it from parkour,while they are already dead. Bunch of people like to glitch their way into game like that, makes it really confusing.
Seeing already dead player run to you with armor and sword, not fun...


Glass wall has been made higher.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Sat Jul 04, 2015 07:20

Wuzzy wrote:Sadly, there is still the old collisionbox problem.

you could make the Kinos not walkable and not pointable

Wuzzy wrote:Please don't! Overwriting essential functions is crazy. Especially in this case, because it is completely senseless. Preventing digging is actually very easily done by getting the digging groups and the player tools right. All of this work has already been done a while ago. You are seeing a problem which does not exist.

ok, then override minetest.is_protected to return true for usual players
overriding digging groups is not safe enough

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Wuzzy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 14:57

I have been a long-term player on the Hungry Games server for now.

I want to talk about some gameplay issues:

First of all, I think that building should be very restricted. Players can build some stuff if they now the right recipes.

To name a few:
  • Fences
  • Wooden Door
  • Wool
  • Steel Door (!)
  • Chest
  • Locked Chest (!)
  • Steel Block
  • Ladder

I think almost all of the crafting recipes for buildable stuff must be removed. The focus should be on combat and survival, not building bases. I think the only justifiable exception MAY be the ladder, because it is so useful to get around the map.

The locked chest is really troubling. I have seen a couple of locked chests around the server and this didn't feel right.

I have then tested this in singleplayer and my suspicions were confirmed:
  • You can craft locked chests similar as in Minetest Game
  • You can place them anywhere and work exactly as in Minetest Game
  • But what is really the worst: The chest's contents will be preserved throughout multiple games. The chest content will NOT be randomized each round!
I think the only solution is to completely remove locked chests (and set an alias to default:chest for backwards-compability).

The steel door is also a bit problematic because it is ownable and craftable. But IMO it does not need to be removed, it may still serve as a decoration item placed by the builders. But then it must not have an owner and must not be craftable.

Other minor stuff:
  • You can place apples (shouldn't be possible, it is just very irritating)
  • Furnaces should be removed or maybe better, degraded to a purely decorational node
  • Hoes should be removed entirely


Summary:
  • Remove most crafting recipes for stuff which can be built
  • Make wooden ladder diggable
  • Add steel ladder which can be placed by admin and can't be dug otherwise
  • Remove locked chests
  • Remove ownership of steel doors


I guess I could code all these changes. But I want to first ask the community before I start to change anything gameplay-related. So what do you think?
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 15:29

Wuzzy wrote:I guess I could code all these changes. But I want to first ask the community before I start to change anything gameplay-related. So what do you think?

I think disabling crafting isn't fair to people who don't use modified clients which allow digging almost every node on the server.

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Wuzzy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 16:48

Hybrid Dog wrote:I think disabling crafting isn't fair to people who don't use modified clients which allow digging almost every node on the server.

AKA cheaters? But I am not sure if this is even possible. Is the server really that easy to be fooled? That would be a serious problem indeed. But I'm not really convinced it exists. Yet.

I did not suggest to disable crafting altogether, I just suggested to remove the crafts for most of the stuff which can be built.
Many many blocks can't be built or broken already, so I guess a few blocks/craftings just remained forgotten. As I understood it, players are (mostly) not supposed to build.
Especially the locked chest is a serious issue. Also, as soon as a player manages to place a block, it will stay there for good, even in future rounds.

This is a game, not a sandbox.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 17:39

Wuzzy wrote:
Hybrid Dog wrote:I think disabling crafting isn't fair to people who don't use modified clients which allow digging almost every node on the server.

AKA cheaters? But I am not sure if this is even possible. Is the server really that easy to be fooled? That would be a serious problem indeed. But I'm not really convinced it exists. Yet.

http://paste.ubuntu.com/11773365/ see line 1000

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Esteban » Mon Jul 06, 2015 17:55

This server is amazing! Played a few days ago and I love it! There's some issues, but other peeps pointed them out. The only thing I would ask is for more variety in maps...
Last edited by Esteban on Wed Jul 08, 2015 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Hybrid Dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 18:02

Esteban wrote:The only thing I would ask is for more variety in maps

How about using the full ~60000x60000 world instead of only one small area of it and do more games parallel that the dead come to another game and…

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Wuzzy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 18:25

How about using the full ~60000x60000 world

That sounds like it would need a huge rewrite. It also an organizatiorical challenge, because now each voting must be treated seperately per “sub-world”. There are probably a lot of weird corner cases as well, it sounds too complicated to me for now. And I wonder if it's really worth all the effort; one could still simply start another server instead.

I wonder what GunshipPenguin would say about htis.

Apart from this, could you please file an issue about the Minetest server being foolable by “modified clients” (regarding digging) on GitHub? This is a serious problem in Minetest.

Also, using one of these “modified clients” to remove “forbidden blocks” would already be bad for this server, my proposed changes would not enable or worsen this problem.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by horse_lover » Tue Jul 07, 2015 00:36

Wuzzy wrote:The locked chest is really troubling. I have seen a couple of locked chests around the server and this didn't feel right.

Yes I completely agree with this. People can stash their extra stuff in the chest and use it in the next round. It is completely unfair. (I did place a locked chest once but never used it. I just wanted to see if it worked :P)
Btw There is a problem with them at spawn right now. People have placed them all over the chest area and it also blocks chests.
Overall: locked chests SHOULD BE REMOVED!
Image
EDIT: same with the fences :P
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Wuzzy » Tue Jul 07, 2015 13:39

Woah, your HUD bars look horrible. Why didn't you report a bug about this? Have you changed the font, font size or GUI scaling? Does this affect stable 0.4.12 as well (it looks like you use an experimental version). Sadly, I am unable to test on Android.

Anyways, I have implemented the changes I have recently suggested, look here:
https://github.com/GunshipPenguin/hungry_games/pull/30

Nothing of this is actually part of Hungry Games yet, I still want to make sure if there is any serious opposition to those changes. And GunshipPenguin still must decide to merge it, too.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by GunshipPenguin » Tue Jul 07, 2015 23:19

Wuzzy wrote:I have been a long-term player on the Hungry Games server for now.

I want to talk about some gameplay issues:

First of all, I think that building should be very restricted. Players can build some stuff if they now the right recipes.

To name a few:
  • Fences
  • Wooden Door
  • Wool
  • Steel Door (!)
  • Chest
  • Locked Chest (!)
  • Steel Block
  • Ladder

I think almost all of the crafting recipes for buildable stuff must be removed. The focus should be on combat and survival, not building bases. I think the only justifiable exception MAY be the ladder, because it is so useful to get around the map.

The locked chest is really troubling. I have seen a couple of locked chests around the server and this didn't feel right.

I have then tested this in singleplayer and my suspicions were confirmed:
  • You can craft locked chests similar as in Minetest Game
  • You can place them anywhere and work exactly as in Minetest Game
  • But what is really the worst: The chest's contents will be preserved throughout multiple games. The chest content will NOT be randomized each round!
I think the only solution is to completely remove locked chests (and set an alias to default:chest for backwards-compability).

The steel door is also a bit problematic because it is ownable and craftable. But IMO it does not need to be removed, it may still serve as a decoration item placed by the builders. But then it must not have an owner and must not be craftable.

Other minor stuff:
  • You can place apples (shouldn't be possible, it is just very irritating)
  • Furnaces should be removed or maybe better, degraded to a purely decorational node
  • Hoes should be removed entirely


Summary:
  • Remove most crafting recipes for stuff which can be built
  • Make wooden ladder diggable
  • Add steel ladder which can be placed by admin and can't be dug otherwise
  • Remove locked chests
  • Remove ownership of steel doors


I guess I could code all these changes. But I want to first ask the community before I start to change anything gameplay-related. So what do you think?


While I like these changes, I have some issues with them. Please see my comment on the pull request.

horse_lover wrote:
Wuzzy wrote:The locked chest is really troubling. I have seen a couple of locked chests around the server and this didn't feel right.



Yes I completely agree with this. People can stash their extra stuff in the chest and use it in the next round. It is completely unfair. (I did place a locked chest once but never used it. I just wanted to see if it worked :P)
Btw There is a problem with them at spawn right now. People have placed them all over the chest area and it also blocks chests.
Overall: locked chests SHOULD BE REMOVED!
sid=397a061e750388714807ac2a2b39a916[/img]
EDIT: same with the fences :P


Damage to the spawn area has been fixed.

Hybrid Dog wrote:
Esteban wrote:The only thing I would ask is for more variety in maps

How about using the full ~60000x60000 world instead of only one small area of it and do more games parallel that the dead come to another game and…


Making the arena bigger is trivial, but running multiple games side by side is not. It would require quite a bit of work and many large changes to the subgame.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by horse_lover » Wed Jul 08, 2015 00:21

Wuzzy wrote:Woah, your HUD bars look horrible. Why didn't you report a bug about this? Have you changed the font, font size or GUI scaling? Does this affect stable 0.4.12 as well (it looks like you use an experimental version). Sadly, I am unable to test on Android.

I haven't changed anything to the HUD bars. This was just the default when I started playing on Android. The HUD bars are better on PC, maybe it's just that Android doesn't support it as well? Not sure if other players on Android have the same problem though...
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by Phiwari123 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 18:36

EDIT: nvm, was already mentioned in earlier post

The spawn seems griefed to me. Random fences placed and used as stairs to jump on top of the parcour :/
Lasst uns alle Bäume pflanzen, nackig durch die Wälder tanzen, Nahrung für die Bienen schaffen, Vogelhäuschen bau'n statt Waffen. Menschen, Tiere, Umwelt achten, statt nach Kohle nur zu trachten, Klima schützen, Frieden stiften, statt die Felder zu vergiften. Lasst uns alle viel mehr lachen, Strom aus Wind und Sonne machen, Erde retten klingt zwar schlicht, doch 'ne zweite gibt es nicht.
 

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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by horse_lover » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:53

BTW There are still a few locked chests dotted around the map...

Also, there is a problem with people picking up items as they die, could this maybe be fixed?
A request: armor bar included into the HUD to see your armor level. This would be useful
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by BlueFireIceUn » Sat Jul 11, 2015 19:12

-One thing make me sad about this server : the people who team. I know Gunship, there are no mod to don't make team so why not make a mod to make 2 teams who will be made randomly.
-Why not make a 2nd map who will make people fight more new, caus eit's everytime the same map so it being boring.
Not matter for me if you deleted the chest craft, I just want tell you those things. Cya
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by horse_lover » Sun Jul 12, 2015 01:51

BlueFireIceUn wrote:-One thing make me sad about this server : the people who team. I know Gunship, there are no mod to don't make team so why not make a mod to make 2 teams who will be made randomly.
-Why not make a 2nd map who will make people fight more new, caus eit's everytime the same map so it being boring.
Not matter for me if you deleted the chest craft, I just want tell you those things. Cya

I don't really see any point in this, no offence. :P Because its your own choice whether you want to team or not. Everyone has the same ' advantage ' but sometimes it's not even an advantage. Everyone has the choice whether or not they would like to team, and if you get ganged up on, then that's just part of the game I guess.
There are 2 other servers that you can go on BTW if you want a change of map: Old Coder's hungry games server and also Calinou's server for hungry games. There was already a conversation about how more than one map would be too difficult.
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Re: [0.4.12][hungry_games] GunshipPenguin's Hunger Games Ser

by GunshipPenguin » Sun Jul 12, 2015 04:10

I've added two features to this server that I've been asked about for awhile. Chat spam prevention and chest refilling during a match.

Chat spam prevention is a new feature of my serveressentials mod, which this server is running. If any player sends a chat message longer than 400 characters, they will be kicked.

Chests are now refilled before a match begins, at the end of the grace period, and from then on, every 2.5 minutes.

BlueFireIceUn wrote:-One thing make me sad about this server : the people who team. I know Gunship, there are no mod to don't make team so why not make a mod to make 2 teams who will be made randomly.
-Why not make a 2nd map who will make people fight more new, caus eit's everytime the same map so it being boring.
Not matter for me if you deleted the chest craft, I just want tell you those things. Cya


Teams would be interesting, and certainly a lot of fun, but implementing some sort of teaming system in this subgame would require large changes, and a lot of work. I might get around to it sometime, but don't look forward to it in the near future.
 

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