[Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

Xudo
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 17:17

Here is the example of good base. It is hard to get in and it is easy to get out.
+ Spoiler


I can't agree that death get you out of the game. Anyone can make stone sword with bare hands. It is worse than steel, but still good enough.

Anyway, I think you should not make a lot of significant changes at once. Moving spawn point is simplest option.

About apples. You can just reduce stack size to 10. It is not possible to use inventory while you fight someone.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 19:42

Those people really know how to build good base.
+ Spoiler


I made 50 swords. Just for fun. Someone took them all.
+ Spoiler


Today I have seen two new strategies:
1. Sneak to enemy base, build 1x1 column and jump on jungle tree. Then escape running on the leaves of the trees.

2. Take flag, run right and die. In the same time, your mate should get to base and pick flag then you die. Usually teammate can get far enough. Sometimes he wins.

There is also a phenomenon of "first attack" with more or less equal teams. It is "first" because everyone has apples. Attack lasts until some team run out of apples.

It is also a good tactic to attack with stone sword and defend with steel one. If you die near you own base, it is more likely that your teammate will pick your gear. When you die near enemy base, it is opposite.

It should also be noted, that there are too much stone in the game. I have built thick walls all over my base and I still had 3 stacks.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by omikekimo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 13:57

I would like it if the spawn point were moved away from the flag as a matter of priority, you see something happened today that bothered me.

I decided to tunnel underneath the enemy base, excavate the area and then build pitfall traps for the enemy team to fall into where they would meet me, armed and ready. It took significant work to do and usually when I try it I am stopped but today was my lucky day. the setup process was uninterrupted and I was able to completely remove the stone underneath the base and dig around the permanent floor ready for the enemy to fall in. I remained down there, and some fell in, others jumped down to try to defeat me, but I fought adequately well to make a fair number of kills.

For my efforts another player (who I won't name, and for whom I do have respect , though I disagree with them on this issue) accused me of spawn killing. We had a brief argument and though I do see where he is coming from, my view is that undermining an enemy's base is a legitimate tactic for overcoming defenses. I would also contend that spawn killing has been removed from the game by virtue of the 10 second delay that gives anyone who has just died the opportunity to either flee, or get a weapon out of the team chest unmolested. Also the permanent floor inside the base means they will always spawn in a safe place. Beyond that the skill of the players involved determines the outcome of any conflict. Aside from that I often remove the stone from underneath my own teams fort as a defense against such undermining.

With that said, moving the spawn away from the flag would lay to rest any chance of such accusations as well as stopping inactive players from blocking the flag from those seeking to take it, which is a problem that I have come up against and has been pointed out in an earlier post on this forum. The flag area is the ultimate target in the game so to have it be the spawn point also inevitably increases the chance that *any* attackers may be accused of of spawn killing. There are clearly two ways of looking at it as it stands and to my mind separating the flag and the spawn would evaporate any dischord between opinions. My suggestion would be to spawn players 10 nodes away from the flag in a random direction so they are not too far away to keep defending it even if they die trying.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Stix » Fri Jan 12, 2018 14:14

i agree with you entirely, many flag capture events have failed because the enemy spawn was on the flag and i wasnt able to punch it as their hitboxes were in the way, also i hate the fact that if you die your essentially taken out of the fight as you only have wood tools.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by omikekimo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 15:28

My major concern is more the sportsmanship issue, I don't want to be a spawn-killer, or be perceived as one. I'm all about fair play and it got to me that someone I respect as a player thought that what I was doing was somehow wrong. I don't mind being ejected from the fight if my efforts fail in combat (I have a background in kyokushin karate, it teaches a rather merciless outlook in that regard, could be why, I dunno) but that said the wooden sword is greatly under powered. I often quickly craft a stone sword if nothing has been put in the team chest before going back into the fray, but during an assault by the enemy that is often not possible. Perhaps that is fair because they did initially win. I'm not sure, it is a balancing issue and I kinda like having the odds stacked against me, so my opinion on that may be too far on the harsh side for a game. For me the moral disrepute that was generated by the scenario struck a nerve.

Hitboxes covering the flag is surely a bug though. Agreed.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 17:52

Playing CTF. Evening #3.
This time I often see situation like this
+ Spoiler

People get trapped in their own base. Wooden pick sometimes actually help them to get out, make stone sword and fight back.

I usually suffer lags once someone uses crossbow. Lags are rare for me, so it is unusual.

Crossbow itself is very useless. I never use it, even it has replenishable ammo. Swords deal much more damage and don't need ammo. I never have seen anyone (succesfully) killing with ranged weapon at all. Though, people use SMG a lot while staying on enemy base and fighting enemies with wood weapons.
If you need to fight someone 1 by 1, you'll surely choose sword instead of any gun. Swordman can just run around gunner and spam attack. Gunner just can't keep up. It is hard to hit anyone with a gun and they need ammo, so they greatly underpowered now.

I think if you greatly increase damage of ranged weapons, then you also increase value of fortifications. If one shot take off half of your health, you'll never just rush with a sword.

One more thing. "pro" kill/death coefficient of 2 should be changed too. I need to camp on enemy base and kill powerless enemies just to reach good KD. I don't like it, but it is your rules.

Natural obstacle, created when Wall disappears. It can be destroyed if someone starts block update nearby.
+ Spoiler


I am tired of struggling near the spawn with noobs making holes, so I started to build fortifications near the Wall. It looks like this.
+ Spoiler
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Stix » Fri Jan 12, 2018 20:00

smg's are actually very useful, but what make guns underpowered is that the bullets travel so slow its pathetic. its also annoying that, as you said, it takes slaughtering noobs at their base to get a decent K/D ratio.

i think spawnkilling could be solved by simply adding a hunger system, that way players cant heal too quickly by spamming apples.

i think mese swords should be removed as their OP, and it would be nice if players started with 5 cobble also, which could be used to build fortifications, craft stone swords and picks, and with help escaping. also maybe the first team with 3 flag captures win? that way rounds could last longer.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:49

I haven't seen mese swords yet. Is it possible to craft one (in possible time)?
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by ThomasMonroe » Sat Jan 13, 2018 13:25

Stix wrote:i agree with you entirely, many flag capture events have failed because the enemy spawn was on the flag and i wasnt able to punch it as their hitboxes were in the way, also i hate the fact that if you die your essentially taken out of the fight as you only have wood tools.


I have an idea how to make them a little more successful, how about if you get within 3 blocks of the flag then you get scored with an infiltration, or maybe even capture attempt.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Sat Jan 13, 2018 13:33

ThomasMonroe wrote:
Stix wrote:i agree with you entirely, many flag capture events have failed because the enemy spawn was on the flag and i wasnt able to punch it as their hitboxes were in the way, also i hate the fact that if you die your essentially taken out of the fight as you only have wood tools.


I have an idea how to make them a little more successful, how about if you get within 3 blocks of the flag then you get scored with an infiltration, or maybe even capture attempt.


I think it is easier to increase flag size to 3 blocks
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Gael de Sailly » Sat Jan 13, 2018 15:55

Spawn should obviously be at some distance from the flag, and cobble nodes below, unbreakable. This would solve the issues that omikekimo pointed out.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:57

I cloned this game, tried to tinker with it and unable to find how to define max stack size for item.
So "decrease stack size of apples" is somewhat impossible (without changing MT itself).

Because of this, I propose to use "energy" system. It is similar to food, with differences. Apples restore energy, health regenerates over time and drains energy on tick, sprint drains energy when used. Unlike hunger, energy regenerates over time and zero energy should not deal damage (you just don't regenerate and can't sprint). Players should respawn with full energy bar.

It is very hard to recover after initial defeat, if enemy camp your base with steel sword and stack of apples.
In the same time it is very easy to recover, if all apples in game were eaten. You can team up with someone, kill steel sword with 2 stone swords on your base and keep collecting steel swords after this.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by ThomasMonroe » Sun Jan 14, 2018 13:07

in order to decrease the stack size, jsut add to the definition of apples this line:
stack_max=somerandomnumber,
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Gael de Sailly » Sun Jan 14, 2018 21:46

Another problem: when a player leaves and rejoins the same round, it can switch from red to blue or vice versa. I think it shouldn't be this way, it's not coherent for the player that rejoins and it's annoying for the other players, that could make mistakes. (In the night, colors are not well visible so I try to remember who's red and who's blue).
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