[Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps!

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sun Jan 28, 2018 13:06

Greetings, fellow comrades! :)

The multiple maps has almost completely eliminated spawn-killing (yay!), thnx to furnaces, minerals, and almost no apples. That being said - no apples makes the battle-field much more even, as even the best pros are given the same 20hp that the noobs have... no more invincibility means we gotta improve on our team-building, and we gotta become a '/t' ninja in order to overcome the enemy! Also there are way more points being scored - noobs and pros alike - tnx again to no apples.

CTF Rocks! :D
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by ANAND » Sun Jan 28, 2018 13:09

Stix wrote:i agree with you entirely, many flag capture events have failed because the enemy spawn was on the flag and i wasnt able to punch it as their hitboxes were in the way, also i hate the fact that if you die your essentially taken out of the fight as you only have wood tools.


A simple work-around to this could be to make the flag larger - 3x1 would be ideal IMO - It'd also look more like a flag, cuz it currently feels like I'm stealing a glorified hand-kerchief.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by ANAND » Sun Jan 28, 2018 13:22

Xudo wrote:Today I have seen two new strategies:
1. Sneak to enemy base, build 1x1 column and jump on jungle tree. Then escape running on the leaves of the trees.


That's classic loulicats strategy btw - You can make a 1x1 tower real fast by changing ur right-click repetition interval and enabling 'build_on_player' in the settings
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sun Jan 28, 2018 13:30

I don't have a seed for this, but there could be a dense jungle map, full of jungle trees. It'd also be nice to increase the distance between the flags for this map. The trees could be positioned close together, creating a ginormous canopy (no gaps between the individual tree canopies), that would also make it difficult for loulicats from nicking the flag IMO... :P
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Stix » Sun Jan 28, 2018 15:19

ANAND wrote:
Xudo wrote:Today I have seen two new strategies:
1. Sneak to enemy base, build 1x1 column and jump on jungle tree. Then escape running on the leaves of the trees.


That's classic loulicats strategy btw - You can make a 1x1 tower real fast by changing ur right-click repetition interval and enabling 'build_on_player' in the settings

post a screenshot how to do that maybe??? :)
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Sun Jan 28, 2018 15:20

ANAND wrote:Greetings, fellow comrades! :)

The multiple maps has almost completely eliminated spawn-killing (yay!), thnx to furnaces, minerals, and almost no apples. I'm a mere mortal now! I kinda used to be a demi-god before... :P

That being said - no apples makes the battle-field much more even, as even the best pros are given the same 20hp that the noobs have... no more invincibility means we gotta improve on our team-building, and we gotta become a '/t' ninja in order to overcome the enemy! Also there are way more points being scored - noobs and pros alike - tnx again to no apples.

CTF Rocks! :D

most pros were kinda like demi-gods before.
*EDIT: its nice cuz it adds a nececitie for teamwork to win, not just a few pros going ham on everyone.
*EDIT: nevermind i already figured it out.
Last edited by Stix on Sun Jan 28, 2018 19:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by Xudo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 17:14

Today I have seen fortress on the bridge. It feels quite useless.
+ Spoiler


ANAND wrote:
Xudo wrote:Today I have seen two new strategies:
1. Sneak to enemy base, build 1x1 column and jump on jungle tree. Then escape running on the leaves of the trees.


That's classic loulicats strategy btw - You can make a 1x1 tower real fast by changing ur right-click repetition interval and enabling 'build_on_player' in the settings

I thought a bit and decided to cut all leaves from adjacent trees.
+ Spoiler


I also added ladders on inner side (relative to base) side of the trees on the road to enemy base. If someone build 1x1 tower, you have a chance to get him. In addition, ladders slows player down, so if someone tries to get out by them, he will be killed.

One more thing. Sand and gravel don't fall down. If it will fall down, then it will make sense to make sand or gravel walls.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!)

by ANAND » Mon Jan 29, 2018 01:07

Xudo wrote:Today I have seen fortress on the bridge. It feels quite useless.
+ Spoiler


I thought a bit and decided to cut all leaves from adjacent trees.
+ Spoiler


I also added ladders on inner side (relative to base) side of the trees on the road to enemy base. If someone build 1x1 tower, you have a chance to get him. In addition, ladders slows player down, so if someone tries to get out by them, he will be killed.

One more thing. Sand and gravel don't fall down. If it will fall down, then it will make sense to make sand or gravel walls.


That fortress on the bridge was built so that only the team who built it could go across to the other side... It wasnt easy for us to go across - I snuck around the fortress by swimming downstream (or up-stream) and took 'em out from behind :P

Cutting the leaves is an awesome idea! But building the 1x1 tower is way faster than climbing a ladder. It's impossible to catch 'em by climbing ladders - We could either intercept them in the middle or ambush 'em near their own base...
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Mon Jan 29, 2018 02:21

Hiding player name-tags is a god-send, and paves way for better, well thought-out strategies, and also fosters the camaraderie within the team, while kindling a sense of responsibility, in the form of division of labour.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Thu Feb 01, 2018 06:31

It'd be nice if flags can be dropped, and/or passed onto another team-mate - It will be even more engaging, as now multiple players can contribute to the actual flag capture, and the enemies can't focus on only one player...

If a team-member clicks on their own 'dropped' flag - it should automatically go back to its place. This idea has room for improvement, and there are many more trivial details to be thought out, but if implemented, this will make CTF way more fun! :)
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Nocturne » Thu Feb 01, 2018 18:15

ANAND wrote:It'd be nice if flags can be dropped, and/or passed onto another team-mate - It will be even more engaging, as now multiple players can contribute to the actual flag capture, and the enemies can't focus on only one player...


That would improve things immeasurably!

So much more strategy would be possible. People could take up the mantle of different roles according to the player strengths and inventories. Quick, agile players for grabbing; resilient, tough players for couriering.

And you could have underground, or sheltered relay lines of players quickly passing from one to the other — with only a single node opening to see each other, for instance.

Currently, you need to be a jack-of-all-trades to stand a decent chance of scoring a capture. But transferable flags would diversify the teamwork involved. Plus, the newbies might venture out more often.

The only minor issue is regarding the capture scoring system. I think we currently get points for capture attempts, and a larger point prize for a successful capture?

Perhaps all the players who held the flag leading up to a capture could each get a fixed amount of points.

rubenwardy wrote:Players with more than 10,000 score can join the server even when the limit is reached, however this doesn't help good players without much gameplay time. I'm considering reducing this number as it rarely goes above 30, but it's unlikely to go below 1000 score.


What about further fracturing the seating allocation, so to say?

You could have twenty slots for the newbies (0 - 1,000 points); ten slots for the upstarts (1,000 - 10,000 points); and a final ten slots for the pros (10,000+ points).

Reaching 1,000 points is fairly straight-forward for a decent player. It shouldn't lower server population too much.

Xudo wrote:It would be great to see lava-filled map and sky platform map.


An aerospace map would be awesome: it'd be like an orthogonal cousin to the Caverns map, with the advantage / disadvantage of the ''tunnels'' being visible. The divergence or strategy might be interesting; especially with the potential exclusion / inclusion of ores and apple trees, etc.

Xudo wrote:Too much noob players take too much useful items and do nothing. They usually stay near base and wait for anyone to kill them.


What if we implemented a per-match currency system with a starting value equivalent to the player's score? The team chest would take on the functionality of a storefront.

Chest removals would cost the player, while chest additions would pay the player. The prices could reflect the item's quality; with steel valued higher than wood, say.

Raise the price baseline high enough and the clueless newbies will be kept at bay.

rubenwardy wrote:One problem I see with CTF is that inventory matters too much. Once you die, you're out of the game essentially. There's also a lot of chest searching.


One possible answer that might be interesting: implement a ''/give <player>'' command for use with teammates; the command would transfer (teleport) the held item from one player to another — assuming they have the inventory space.

It could be limited to exclude stacks: one item, only. And it could hook into the above currency system, too; paying when you send, and costing to receive. The stack exclusion would help ensure team chests¹ remain a useful watering pool.

As an aside, it might help with strategic depth: bettering further roles for team members to play — like harvesters.

¹ - we could also do with making team chests a craftable item, maybe?
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Fri Feb 02, 2018 15:22

Nocturne wrote:The only minor issue is regarding the capture scoring system. I think we currently get points for capture attempts, and a larger point prize for a successful capture?


The flag capture is 25 points generally (not sure if it's hard-coded), and failed-attempts fetch you 10 points. So 35 points in total if successful...

Nocturne wrote:So much more strategy would be possible. People could take up the mantle of different roles according to the player strengths and inventories. Quick, agile players for grabbing; resilient, tough players for couriering.


Very true - that would be ideal for improving the game-play. Strategy and team-work will replace PvP skills, and we'll begin to hatch grand, sinister plots in the first 240 seconds, instead of running for apples.

There could be a mod that doesn't allow useless stuff (also those that are given by default) into the team-chest. There could also be a separate pro-chest, as there's a lot of demand for good stuff when there are more than 5 pros in a team - the non-pros can be denied access to the pro-chest (neither for adding nor for removing items). Craft-able team-chests is a marvelous idea! We can have multiple secret team-chests all over the map - of course the crafting must be moderately difficult, or we'll have too many chests strewn across the map.

Nocturne wrote:One possible answer that might be interesting: implement a ''/give <player>'' command for use with teammates; the command would transfer (teleport) the held item from one player to another — assuming they have the inventory space.


This would make the game too easy, and subsequently very boring - running across the map to meet up with a team-mate to get a sword without getting killed is part of the challenge.

The aerospace map offers an interesting new perspective, and consequently new strategies. It'd also be great to see a map with a lot of deep water (2 islands maybe?) where we need to build bridges / use boats to get to the enemy island at a decent pace (they could be that far away from each other).

I'm also looking forward to a couple of other features rubenwardy has been mentioning:
  • Displaying points for the last kill (or maybe the total score for the whole match in a corner?)
  • Player Classes - like Builder, Fighter, etc. and providing the default items accordingly

Overall, CTF is getting much better than ever before - keep up the good work, rubenwardy! :)
Last edited by ANAND on Sat Mar 31, 2018 14:25, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 17:24

Nocturne wrote:
ANAND wrote:It'd be nice if flags can be dropped, and/or passed onto another team-mate - It will be even more engaging, as now multiple players can contribute to the actual flag capture, and the enemies can't focus on only one player...


That would improve things immeasurably!

So much more strategy would be possible. People could take up the mantle of different roles according to the player strengths and inventories. Quick, agile players for grabbing; resilient, tough players for couriering.

And you could have underground, or sheltered relay lines of players quickly passing from one to the other — with only a single node opening to see each other, for instance.

Currently, you need to be a jack-of-all-trades to stand a decent chance of scoring a capture. But transferable flags would diversify the teamwork involved. Plus, the newbies might venture out more often.

We don't have real distinction between agile and tough players now. Everyone have same amount of hitpoints and if one is skilled, then he is agile. If one has more apples, then he is tough.

I think there should be special items for this. For example: cloak of speed and cloak of resilence and maybe cloak of strength.

Nocturne wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:Players with more than 10,000 score can join the server even when the limit is reached, however this doesn't help good players without much gameplay time. I'm considering reducing this number as it rarely goes above 30, but it's unlikely to go below 1000 score.

What about further fracturing the seating allocation, so to say?

You could have twenty slots for the newbies (0 - 1,000 points); ten slots for the upstarts (1,000 - 10,000 points); and a final ten slots for the pros (10,000+ points).

Reaching 1,000 points is fairly straight-forward for a decent player. It shouldn't lower server population too much.

I'm not sure if it is really neccesary. How would you decide, which item should go in which slot?
Steel sword is pro weapon or not? What about wood planks?

Nocturne wrote:
Xudo wrote:Too much noob players take too much useful items and do nothing. They usually stay near base and wait for anyone to kill them.

What if we implemented a per-match currency system with a starting value equivalent to the player's score? The team chest would take on the functionality of a storefront.

Chest removals would cost the player, while chest additions would pay the player. The prices could reflect the item's quality; with steel valued higher than wood, say.

Raise the price baseline high enough and the clueless newbies will be kept at bay.

I don't think it is an issue now. Rubenwardy has added threshold score limit for common section since then. It seems it had helped.

Nocturne wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:One problem I see with CTF is that inventory matters too much. Once you die, you're out of the game essentially. There's also a lot of chest searching.

One possible answer that might be interesting: implement a ''/give <player>'' command for use with teammates; the command would transfer (teleport) the held item from one player to another — assuming they have the inventory space.

It could be limited to exclude stacks: one item, only. And it could hook into the above currency system, too; paying when you send, and costing to receive. The stack exclusion would help ensure team chests¹ remain a useful watering pool.

As an aside, it might help with strategic depth: bettering further roles for team members to play — like harvesters.

You are no more out of the game once you died. There are more skilled players fighting than before. Making stone replacement of steel sword and teaming with someone can help you to kill at least one steel-swordsman. Then your mate can pick his sword and run away, regenerate. Repeat.

Though, I think it is good idea about harvesters. It can help new players to get score points to access pro section. No need for "/give" command. I don't think typing a lot of words in chat is good idea in fast-paced game like this.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 17:36

ANAND wrote:
Nocturne wrote:The only minor issue is regarding the capture scoring system. I think we currently get points for capture attempts, and a larger point prize for a successful capture?


The flag capture is 35 points generally (not sure if it's hard-coded), and attempts don't fetch you any, but the killer of the flag-bearer does get more points...

I think capture attempts should reward score too. In other pvp games it is usually rewarding.

ANAND wrote:There could be a mod that doesn't allow useless stuff (also those that are given by default) into the team-chest.

It is not so trivial to decide which item is useless. Does wood sticks useless? What about crossbow?

ANAND wrote:There could also be a separate pro-chest, as there's a lot of demand for good stuff when there are more than 5 pros in a team - the non-pros can be denied access to the pro-chest (neither for adding nor for removing items). Craft-able team-chests is a marvelous idea! We can have multiple secret team-chests all over the map - of course the crafting must be moderately difficult, or we'll have too many chests strewn across the map.

I like the idea of additional team chest. It might be used as backup for weapons outside of the base. In addition, it might be used to store enemy weapons in the middle of the map, if your inventory is full.

ANAND wrote:The aerospace map offers an interesting new perspective, and consequently new strategies. It'd also be great to see a map with a lot of deep water (2 islands maybe?) where we need to build bridges / use boats to get to the enemy island at a decent pace (they could be that far away from each other).

Why islands? It might be big bubbles underwater. Making tonnels in water is much harder than in stone. Possible strategies are: swim above to boat (which is unavailable now), use chain of breath refreshing places, dig under sea bottom.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sat Feb 03, 2018 06:49

Xudo wrote:It is not so trivial to decide which item is useless. Does wood sticks useless? What about crossbow?


Let's take for example the steel pick-axe in the cavern map - if you are given this by default when you re-spawn, why should it occupy precious space in the team-chest? While a steel pick-axe is still powerful, what about wooden swords and pick-axes? They're completely useless, and are given by default anyways... :)

Xudo wrote:Why islands? It might be big bubbles underwater. Making tonnels in water is much harder than in stone. Possible strategies are: swim above to boat (which is unavailable now), use chain of breath refreshing places, dig under sea bottom.


Underwater bases are even better IMO - splendid idea!
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sat Feb 03, 2018 06:50

ANAND wrote:
Xudo wrote:It is not so trivial to decide which item is useless. Does wood sticks useless? What about crossbow?


Let's take for example the steel pick-axe in the cavern map - if you are given this by default when you re-spawn, why should it occupy precious space in the team-chest? While a steel pick-axe is still powerful, what about wooden swords and wooden pick-axes? They're completely useless, and are given by default anyways... :)

Xudo wrote:Why islands? It might be big bubbles underwater. Making tonnels in water is much harder than in stone. Possible strategies are: swim above to boat (which is unavailable now), use chain of breath refreshing places, dig under sea bottom.


Underwater bases are even better IMO - splendid idea!
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Gael de Sailly » Sat Feb 03, 2018 09:59

Xudo wrote:It is not so trivial to decide which item is useless. Does wood sticks useless? What about crossbow?

A few days ago I was playing in the mine, I cooked 22 steel ingots and found 8 mese crystals but was unable to find any wood to craft swords. I spent at least 10 minutes searching all over the map, and begging for wood, until I was killed.
I just lacked sticks!
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:40

Gael de Sailly wrote:A few days ago I was playing in the mine, I cooked 22 steel ingots and found 8 mese crystals but was unable to find any wood to craft swords. I spent at least 10 minutes searching all over the map, and begging for wood, until I was killed.
I just lacked sticks!


That's bad...*_*

The noobs steal all the sticks and planks from the chest - it's better to put some in the pro-section right after the game begins. They also transform into super-griefers in the underground cavern map - There's no easy way to fall back to base during an invasion, because there's lava flowing everywhere!
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by rubenwardy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 04:07

Creating Maps for Capture the Flag


I've made a video tutorial on how to make maps for CTF

Image


Responses


ANAND wrote:I don't have a seed for this, but there could be a dense jungle map, full of jungle trees. It'd also be nice to increase the distance between the flags for this map. The trees could be positioned close together, creating a ginormous canopy (no gaps between the individual tree canopies), that would also make it difficult for loulicats from nicking the flag IMO... :P


I love this idea, will put making it on my todo list

ANAND wrote:It'd be nice if flags can be dropped, and/or passed onto another team-mate - It will be even more engaging, as now multiple players can contribute to the actual flag capture, and the enemies can't focus on only one player...

If a team-member clicks on their own 'dropped' flag - it should automatically go back to its place. This idea has room for improvement, and there are many more trivial details to be thought out, but if implemented, this will make CTF way more fun! :)


This is already on the issue tracker, I need to think about how to avoid abuse/mistakes though (punch a team member thinking it's the enemy and passed the flag? Oops.)

Nocturne wrote:What about further fracturing the seating allocation, so to say?

You could have twenty slots for the newbies (0 - 1,000 points); ten slots for the upstarts (1,000 - 10,000 points); and a final ten slots for the pros (10,000+ points).

Reaching 1,000 points is fairly straight-forward for a decent player. It shouldn't lower server population too much.


I have been thinking about it, but it's more complexity. The callback when players attempt to join is quite intensive, as it's called a lot.


Nocturne wrote:What if we implemented a per-match currency system with a starting value equivalent to the player's score? The team chest would take on the functionality of a storefront.


The pro-section mostly alleviates this, but it's not available to everyone.

Nocturne wrote:One possible answer that might be interesting: implement a ''/give <player>'' command for use with teammates; the command would transfer (teleport) the held item from one player to another — assuming they have the inventory space.

It could be limited to exclude stacks: one item, only. And it could hook into the above currency system, too; paying when you send, and costing to receive. The stack exclusion would help ensure team chests¹ remain a useful watering pool.

As an aside, it might help with strategic depth: bettering further roles for team members to play — like harvesters.

¹ - we could also do with making team chests a craftable item, maybe?


This feels over powered to me. The pro-section helps with players sufficient play time

Xudo wrote:We don't have real distinction between agile and tough players now. Everyone have same amount of hitpoints and if one is skilled, then he is agile. If one has more apples, then he is tough.

I think there should be special items for this. For example: cloak of speed and cloak of resilence and maybe cloak of strength.


I'm planning on adding pick ups for buffs and debuffs, just ensure of how to make it more strategic than about what you have
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Sun Feb 04, 2018 13:40

rubenwardy wrote:I've made a video tutorial on how to make maps for CTF


I felt that the tutorial was a little too rushed, but I got the hang of it and after a couple of crashes, I've finally gotten a decent map - I just don't know which is the right place to upload it (You might want to add that to the description of your video). Also, I hope the map in your tutorial is going to become the real jungle map.

rubenwardy wrote:This feels over powered to me. The pro-section helps with players sufficient play time


Then can you at least have a separate pro-chest? Those 12 slots are too less when you have more than 4 pros in the same team... :)

Alas, spawn-killing is still rampant in the original 2Hills2Lakes map - a temporary workaround would be to give something a little better than wooden toys (stone probably?) at the start / re-spawn...

As always, great work and I look forward to a lot more! Make CTF great again!!! :D
Last edited by ANAND on Tue Apr 10, 2018 14:14, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 19:49

Rubenwardy seems to miss some points from this discussion, so I have created threads on github:
- give sticks instead of wooden sword https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/issues/102
- make bricks great again indestructible https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/issues/101

And one proposal about making crossbows better: https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/issues/70

Good job, ruben. You are making great game.
Finally minetest has some sense and challenge in MP.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by xerox123 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:00

Hi,
I've made a map and linked a download to it below.

http://0x0.st/sc6-.zip

Please check it out!
Thanks.
I can be found on Persistent Kingdoms, LS-Wonderland (admin) and BlockySurvival (admin).
 

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Stix
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Sat Feb 10, 2018 16:21

ANAND wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:I've made a video tutorial on how to make maps for CTF


I felt that the tutorial was a little too rushed, but I got the hang of it and after a couple of crashes, I've finally gotten a decent map - I just don't know which is the right place to upload it (You might want to add that to the description of your video). Also, I hope the map in your tutorial is going to become the real jungle map... :P

rubenwardy wrote:This feels over powered to me. The pro-section helps with players sufficient play time


Then can you at least have a separate pro-chest? Those 12 slots are too less when you have more than 4 pros in the same team... :)

Alas, spawn-killing is still rampant in the original 2Hills2Lakes map - a temporary workaround would be to give something a little better than wooden toys (stone probably?) at the start / re-spawn...

As always, great work and I look forward to a lot more! Make CTF great again!!! :D

just had more slots to the team chest like its a double chest or something
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Mon Feb 12, 2018 08:14

I've tried my hand at making maps too. I've uploaded them to a GitHub repo.

EDIT: I've taken down my maps repo and have uploaded my maps to a dedicated topic for CTF maps
Last edited by ANAND on Sun Mar 11, 2018 01:35, edited 1 time in total.
 

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