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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 00:54
by DELTA_FORCE
May I have the map files? I'm working on a minetest animation and want to try a CTF one first.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 00:56
by Lone_Wolf
DELTA_FORCE wrote:May I have the map files? I'm working on a minetest animation and want to try a CTF one first.

https://github.com/MT-CTF/maps

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 01:22
by Chem871
Also, retreating keeps you alive, and allows you to kill again, so yes, a K/D of over 1.5 is entirely possible.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 02:27
by Stix
Lone_Wolf wrote:Don't hold down the attack button on an enemy, rapidclick it.

No, you are completely wrong there; first of all holding down the button is faster than rapidclicking it, and secondly, timing your hits is the most effective way to deal damage. Note that how long the ideal delays are between clicks depends on the weapon and you have to get used to them.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 03:44
by Lone_Wolf
Stix wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:Don't hold down the attack button on an enemy, rapidclick it.

No, you are completely wrong there; first of all holding down the button is faster than rapidclicking it, and secondly, timing your hits is the most effective way to deal damage. Note that how long the ideal delays are between clicks depends on the weapon and you have to get used to them.

I'll try that but I think it's all the same. You just do more damage per click

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 05:41
by Waterbug
liljet keeps coming back with alternate accounts every time he is banned.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:55
by micheal65536
Stix wrote:There will never be completely even matches with completely even players as some players are more skilled than others


That is self-contradicting. If some players are more skilled than others then they are not completely even.

Stix wrote:If a majority of players hate a map and complain about it then it should be removed or changed to better fit what a majority of the player-base find fun.


They only don't find it fun because they never even tried it. It's like "boo we got this map again let's skip it" without even giving it a fair chance.

Lone_Wolf wrote:If you can't get a weapon from the chest then you mine for one. Don't rely on the other players to supply you with weapons.


Good luck doing that when the match is already going and you'll get killed before you get a chance to mine anything.

Lone_Wolf wrote:And for the vote skipping: Just /no and ask the vote starter to stop


I do vote no. Everyone else votes yes because of herd mentality ("boo we all hate this map everyone hates this map let's just hate on it because everyone else hates it and ur dumb if u don't hate it").

Chem871 wrote:Also, retreating keeps you alive, and allows you to kill again, so yes, a K/D of over 1.5 is entirely possible.


Doesn't work when you're evenly-matched and both sides are using the same tactic.

[hr]

In other words, giving the more skilled players the better weapons widens the gap even further. In a *completely* fair system (not saying that this should be done because it won't make the game very fun) the more skilled players should be handicapped to even out the skill level. In a game that's actually fun, players of different skill levels should have the same weapons so that the game is won by skill, not by who managed to get access to the better weapons. If you're a newcomer and 75% of the players have better weapons than you, even if you're as skilled as them it's going to be very difficult to get the same K/D as them. Because statistically, if the majority of player's are of a similar skill level, everyone's K/D will approach 1. It's basic statistics, every pro having a K/D of 1.5 is only possible if the server has a high proportion of noobs.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:08
by Xudo
micheal65536 wrote:In other words, giving the more skilled players the better weapons widens the gap even further. In a *completely* fair system (not saying that this should be done because it won't make the game very fun) the more skilled players should be handicapped to even out the skill level. In a game that's actually fun, players of different skill levels should have the same weapons so that the game is won by skill, not by who managed to get access to the better weapons. If you're a newcomer and 75% of the players have better weapons than you, even if you're as skilled as them it's going to be very difficult to get the same K/D as them. Because statistically, if the majority of player's are of a similar skill level, everyone's K/D will approach 1. It's basic statistics, every pro having a K/D of 1.5 is only possible if the server has a high proportion of noobs.

You probably will be interested in this issue posted on CTF-repository: Chest points. It is about changing requirements for pro section from K/D ratio to some kind of currency.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:25
by ANAND
micheal65536 wrote:It's basic statistics, every pro having a K/D of 1.5 is only possible if the server has a high proportion of noobs.


Yes, that's indeed the case here. Around 70-80% of the server's user-base is made up of clueless noobs. Players who actually play make up 20-30%, and the "pros", even lesser.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 13:17
by Chem871
Waterbug wrote:liljet keeps coming back with alternate accounts every time he is banned.


Why was liljet banned?

Also, I've finally 'discovered' the quote button :/

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 13:52
by cautiouspotato
micheal65536 wrote:....In addition to immunity after respawning, make players unable to attack after respawning. This would prevent the situation where a would-be capturer gets close to the base and is attacked by a defender, kills the defender, and is attacked by the defender again until their health depletes (only made worse by the fact that the capturer now cannot kill the defender a second time because they are immune).

EDIT: ...People misuse this by voting to skip as soon as they get a map that they do not like, rather than its intended purpose of terminating a match that has reached a stalemate. There seem to be only two or three (very similar) maps that people like, and they complain about the others ("this one's too flat", "this one doesn't have enough ore", etc.) instead of finding interesting ways to work around the challenges that each map presents.


1 you gotta be sneaky when taking the flag and once you have the flag you get out of the base, you don't stay around to get beat up, so this is imo a non issue.

2 yea everyone seems to love the caverns map I've no idea why, and I agree with finding new ways to play on different maps.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 15:35
by Lone_Wolf
micheal65536 wrote:
Stix wrote:There will never be completely even matches with completely even players as some players are more skilled than others


That is self-contradicting. If some players are more skilled than others then they are not completely even.

Stix wrote:If a majority of players hate a map and complain about it then it should be removed or changed to better fit what a majority of the player-base find fun.


They only don't find it fun because they never even tried it. It's like "boo we got this map again let's skip it" without even giving it a fair chance.

Lone_Wolf wrote:If you can't get a weapon from the chest then you mine for one. Don't rely on the other players to supply you with weapons.


Good luck doing that when the match is already going and you'll get killed before you get a chance to mine anything.

Lone_Wolf wrote:And for the vote skipping: Just /no and ask the vote starter to stop


I do vote no. Everyone else votes yes because of herd mentality ("boo we all hate this map everyone hates this map let's just hate on it because everyone else hates it and ur dumb if u don't hate it").

Chem871 wrote:Also, retreating keeps you alive, and allows you to kill again, so yes, a K/D of over 1.5 is entirely possible.


Doesn't work when you're evenly-matched and both sides are using the same tactic.

[hr]

In other words, giving the more skilled players the better weapons widens the gap even further. In a *completely* fair system (not saying that this should be done because it won't make the game very fun) the more skilled players should be handicapped to even out the skill level. In a game that's actually fun, players of different skill levels should have the same weapons so that the game is won by skill, not by who managed to get access to the better weapons. If you're a newcomer and 75% of the players have better weapons than you, even if you're as skilled as them it's going to be very difficult to get the same K/D as them. Because statistically, if the majority of player's are of a similar skill level, everyone's K/D will approach 1. It's basic statistics, every pro having a K/D of 1.5 is only possible if the server has a high proportion of noobs.


1. Stix was saying there will never be a completely even match

2. They usually have tried it. And prefer another match. Most of the players on CTF are 14 and under. They aren't always willing to do what's hardest.

3. Where are you mining? If front of the enemy base's door? I've never been killed going out to mine. Behind base is preferable

4. Some maps just don't suit most of the players online. I'll admit I have seen some overuse before. But again: Just ask the person who started the vote to stop.

5. Giving the skilled players better weapons means it's easier to kill the skilled players on the other team which means the skilled players on your team can bring back more swords. The Pro section of the chest only has so much space. The weapons will start to leak over.
One of the reasons there is never anything in the regular chest is there are players that take anything they can get their hands on. I've seen players leave and flood the base with items. They had just sat there emptying the chest until they had to leave. If the pro requirements were lower then those players would probably get access to the better weapons too. So you still wouldn't be able to get any weapon.

And to get a better K/D maybe you should train on some noobs in the dead hours :P

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 15:37
by Stix
micheal65536 wrote:
Stix wrote:There will never be completely even matches with completely even players as some players are more skilled than others


That is self-contradicting. If some players are more skilled than others then they are not completely even.

You obviously need to re-read this, because i'm saying that there never will be completely even matches...

micheal65536 wrote:
Stix wrote:If a majority of players hate a map and complain about it then it should be removed or changed to better fit what a majority of the player-base find fun.


They only don't find it fun because they never even tried it. It's like "boo we got this map again let's skip it" without even giving it a fair chance.

That is not true, the reason players hate it is because they tried it and found the matches and the map extremely boring. You really need to stop making up crap about players to try to make your arguments appear valid...

micheal65536 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:If you can't get a weapon from the chest then you mine for one. Don't rely on the other players to supply you with weapons.


Good luck doing that when the match is already going and you'll get killed before you get a chance to mine anything.

Its rather easy, even if the cave entrance is in the middle of the map all you have to-do is to wait till the enemy is distracted then dash towards and then down the hole, and i think you know what to do there.
micheal65536 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:And for the vote skipping: Just /no and ask the vote starter to stop


I do vote no. Everyone else votes yes because of herd mentality ("boo we all hate this map everyone hates this map let's just hate on it because everyone else hates it and ur dumb if u don't hate it").

Once again your making things up, just stop it, please.

micheal65536 wrote:
Chem871 wrote:Also, retreating keeps you alive, and allows you to kill again, so yes, a K/D of over 1.5 is entirely possible.


Doesn't work when you're evenly-matched and both sides are using the same tactic.

Not true:
1. There will never be completely fair matches.
2. If you want a good k/d you need to actually try to get better instead of wining how its impossible. (even i, an extremely suicidal player, and sometimes noob, has a k/d twice that).
3. There is a little game changer known as tactics, bud.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:03
by micheal65536
Stix wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Stix wrote:There will never be completely even matches with completely even players as some players are more skilled than others


That is self-contradicting. If some players are more skilled than others then they are not completely even.

You obviously need to re-read this, because i'm saying that there never will be completely even matches...


You said "there will never be completely even matches with completely even players as some players are more skilled than others". In itself, that statement is invalid. It is a contradiction to say "some players are more skilled than others" when we are talking about a situation with "completely even players". If the players are completely even, some cannot be more skilled than others. If some players are more skilled than others, they cannot be completely even.

In practical terms, of course the players are not *completely* even. But they are even enough that if you put them all together, their K/Ds will be close to 1. The *only* way to have a disproportionate K/D is if there is a disproportionate balance between player skill levels (or if one player has access to better weapons).

Stix wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Stix wrote:If a majority of players hate a map and complain about it then it should be removed or changed to better fit what a majority of the player-base find fun.


They only don't find it fun because they never even tried it. It's like "boo we got this map again let's skip it" without even giving it a fair chance.

That is not true, the reason players hate it is because they tried it and found the matches and the map extremely boring. You really need to stop making up crap about players to try to make your arguments appear valid...


I'm not making anything up. I saw the chat when it happened (multiple times). You didn't.

Stix wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:And for the vote skipping: Just /no and ask the vote starter to stop


I do vote no. Everyone else votes yes because of herd mentality ("boo we all hate this map everyone hates this map let's just hate on it because everyone else hates it and ur dumb if u don't hate it").

Once again your making things up, just stop it, please.


See previous quote.

Stix wrote:If you want a good k/d you need to actually try to get better instead of wining how its impossible. (even i, an extremely suicidal player, and sometimes noob, has a k/d twice that).


Of course you have a high K/D, because you have access to the better weapons. Like it or not, the simple fact is that, statistically, the established players have a high K/D at the expense of the new players because they have better weapons. I can beat an established player with a 50-50 chance if we both have e.g. steel swords. Give me a wooden sword and you'd have to be pretty dumb to think that I could even stand a chance of killing them.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:50
by Esskeetit
Hey guys! I've been having problems joining CTF recently. I am absolutely confused and have no idea what's happened. Whenever I click to join CTF, type in my password and hit enter this happens :







I hope to play CTF again soon, and if any of you know the problem please share and let me know :P. Cheers.
-Esskeetit

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:53
by DELTA_FORCE
Please tell me what operating system you are on, what ISP you have, and what version of minetest you have. Then I could help you further.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:56
by Esskeetit
Linux/Ubuntu, internet cables and routers and Minetest 4.16

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:57
by Lone_Wolf
Esskeetit wrote:Hey guys! I've been having problems joining CTF recently. I am absolutely confused and have no idea what's happened. Whenever I click to join CTF, type in my password and hit enter this happens :







I hope to play CTF again soon, and if any of you know the problem please share and let me know :P. Cheers.
-Esskeetit

Check your internet connection. The server might have been down when you tried to join too. And maybe get the latest version of MT (0.4.17.1)

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:57
by DELTA_FORCE
Are you in Arizona or somewhere in the mid-west?

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 16:58
by DELTA_FORCE
LW : I can join and I have 4.16.
Esskeetit : Do you have discord? It may be easier to communicate.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 17:01
by Lone_Wolf
DELTA_FORCE wrote:LW : I can join and I have 4.16.
Esskeetit : Do you have discord? It may be easier to communicate.

eh, 0.4.17.1 is slightly better

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 17:01
by DELTA_FORCE
5.0.0 is better

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 17:31
by Esskeetit
DELTA_FORCE wrote:Are you in Arizona or somewhere in the mid-west?

No

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 17:32
by Esskeetit
DELTA_FORCE wrote:LW : I can join and I have 4.16.
Esskeetit : Do you have discord? It may be easier to communicate.

No either

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 17:32
by Esskeetit
Lone_Wolf wrote:
Esskeetit wrote:Hey guys! I've been having problems joining CTF recently. I am absolutely confused and have no idea what's happened. Whenever I click to join CTF, type in my password and hit enter this happens :







I hope to play CTF again soon, and if any of you know the problem please share and let me know :P. Cheers.
-Esskeetit

Check your internet connection. The server might have been down when you tried to join too. And maybe get the latest version of MT (0.4.17.1)


Ok thanks. I will try to get it updated