[Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps!

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Sun Dec 02, 2018 15:43

micheal65536 wrote:
ANAND wrote:Most of these players with newly-granted access to the pro-chest still don't contribute to the team in any way at all, and end up wasting all weapons to the enemy by jumping into battle without any strategy whatsoever.


No one ever seems to have any strategy on this server (at least not that I've seen), players always just go out randomly and do their own thing. There's a team chat but it never really gets used for planning a strategy. Seeing as the matter has been brought up to be honest I think that is the root of the problems on this server.

You don't need 2 players to have a strategy, ever thought that the players doing "their own thing" were actually using strategy?

And btw you really need to stop complaining about the kd requirements, its so low that atm complete noobs can gain access to it. And if you cant then your an even bigger noob and have no excuse. At this point idc if i sound harsh, i'm sick of you wining about things you obviously cannot bring yourself to understand.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Sun Dec 02, 2018 16:00

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:If you can't earn good weapon with bad weapon, then you will only take weapons from chest.

Wrong. You can't (regularly, reliably) earn a good weapon with a bad weapon (unless the players on other team are mostly stupid). What you can do, and what I can do, is earn a good weapon with another good weapon. So with a steel sword I can kill someone else who has a steel sword. Then I can bring their steel sword back to the chest. Expecting anyone to kill someone with a good weapon using a bad weapon is unreasonable.

I agree that you can't earn good weapon. But it is the case if you are alone. Thats why you need to team up with someone and try to outnumber your enemy.
2 stone swords > 1 steel one.

micheal65536 wrote:No one ever seems to have any strategy on this server (at least not that I've seen), players always just go out randomly and do their own thing.

One of the good strategies is to collect (or destroy) good weapons in the chest. When enemy team chest becomes empty, your team will be able to push forward.
There also tunneling strategy and "sky bridge" strategy to steal flag.

micheal65536 wrote:What is actually needed, but which is never going to be implemented and which I don't really expect to be implemented, is a player matching system. Players with similar scores (i.e. a measure of skill) should be matched together in a match (multiple matches run in parallel). Then you don't have one good player getting frustrated in a team full of noobs, or noobs screwing up a team of good players, and so on.

I agree with you. Do you have any specific model in mind? Feel free to describe your specific idea in issues on github.

micheal65536 wrote:1.5 simply does not make sense if the intention is to separate good players from bad players, or to separate players who waste weapons from players who use them productively.

Why, exactly? Good players do have K/D higher than 1.5. See rankings table.
Players are not equal. Some are good. Some are bad. K/D distribution is not normal. It is long-tail one. Some players are having unnattainable high K/D while vast majority are having really low K/D.

micheal65536 wrote:how anyone can reasonably expect every good player on the server to simultaneously hold a K/D greater than 1.5.

Thats because not everyone is good. Bad players has K/D much less than 1. Probably around 0.5. Thats why it is possible to require 1.5 from good players.

micheal65536 wrote:The only other solution would be to avoid score/ranking entirely, and to have a system based on "give back what you take out".

I agree with this idea. Thats why I submitted issue about Chest points.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Sun Dec 02, 2018 16:05

BTW has anyone noticed the new bug that when a player joins they have a normal nametag for a few seconds until it switches over to the entity based ones? I think this was caused by ANAND's recent PR that tweaked nametags on player_join.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 18:02

Stix wrote:Id go after one that was distracted (preferebly a pro with no better than a steel sword) and then after slaying them id retreat to heal up then go after someone with a mese/diamond sword (if i didn't already have one that is).

Only works some of the time, when the other player is distracted. I already covered this ("unless you get lucky", which doesn't count).
Stix wrote:its so low that atm complete noobs can gain access to it.

Not true. Explain how you went from (implicitly) saying "all the pros have a high K/D" (which is impossible unless a) there are a lot of noobs and b) the pros feed off of the noobs) to saying "everyone has a high K/D" (which is outright impossible).
Stix wrote:And if you cant then your an even bigger noob and have no excuse.

I've already said multiple times, give me a steel sword and I can kill someone else who has a steel sword with roughly a 50/50 chance. That's good enough for me and it should be good enough for anyone else. Expecting more is unreasonable. If you don't believe me I'm open to a 1v1 next time we meet on the server (you provide the swords, of course).
Xudo wrote:I agree that you can't earn good weapon. But it is the case if you are alone. Thats why you need to team up with someone and try to outnumber your enemy.
2 stone swords > 1 steel one.

That does work, sometimes. That's one reason why my K/D is 0.9, not 0.1.
Xudo wrote:There also tunneling strategy and "sky bridge" strategy to steal flag.

I have used and seen other players use those strategies before. Works until two players from the other team catch on and kill you while you're alone with nothing but a wooden sword.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:What is actually needed, but which is never going to be implemented and which I don't really expect to be implemented, is a player matching system. Players with similar scores (i.e. a measure of skill) should be matched together in a match (multiple matches run in parallel). Then you don't have one good player getting frustrated in a team full of noobs, or noobs screwing up a team of good players, and so on.

I agree with you. Do you have any specific model in mind? Feel free to describe your specific idea in issues on github.

Not sure what you mean by "model" here. Basically, teams would be assembled between players with similar scores or rankings, and matches would be held between similar teams. Pairings could be performed based on the distribution of rankings between candidate players for a team, or by dividing the rankings into a number of "bins", or any other pairing algorithm.

It would however seriously complicate things. There would need to be multiple matches at the same time so that everyone gets a chance to play. Once a player has finished a match, they would need to wait in a lobby area until there are enough players to pair together to form a new match (rankings change after each match so the players would need to be re-paired after each match, and there would need to be a balance between waiting for closer pairings with players that are still playing another match and going with a wider pairing with a player that is already available). The maximum number of players on the server would need to be increased so that enough players are available to divide into multiple matches without the teams being too small. I imagine that altogether this would require a lot of re-structuring of code and have significant implications on server load.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:1.5 simply does not make sense if the intention is to separate good players from bad players, or to separate players who waste weapons from players who use them productively.

Why, exactly? Good players do have K/D higher than 1.5. See rankings table.
Players are not equal. Some are good. Some are bad. K/D distribution is not normal. It is long-tail one. Some players are having unnattainable high K/D while vast majority are having really low K/D.

I am well aware that there are many players with a K/D higher than 1.5, and that K/D on the server does not have a normal distribution. This is part of the problem. Let me try to explain.

First suppose that the distribution of raw player skill levels (not scores, actual skill which cannot really be measured in practice but will be expressed on an arbitrary scale for the present purposes) is normal. In reality it probably isn't but as you will see later this actually doesn't matter too much and it's easier to explain if it is.

Now suppose that a player with a higher skill level will always kill a player with a lower skill level. In reality this is not the case but it simplifies the calculation. Now we can calculate the expected K/D of a player with a particular skill level as follows:

Code: Select all
kills(skill) = P(z < skill)
deaths(skill) = P(z > skill)
kdratio(skill) = P(z < skill) / P(z > skill)

(P is the cumulative distribution function for the distribution of player skill levels)


Now suppose that we expect a "good" player to be somewhere around the mean skill level of all (regular) players on the server. If we define the average (mean) players as "good" players then most of the players are likely to be satisfied but the below-average players (i.e. noobs) will still be classified "bad" players. We can calculate the expected K/D of a player with the mean skill level as follows:

Code: Select all
kdratio(mean) = P(z < mean) / P(z > mean)


Using the definition of mean:

Code: Select all
P(z < mean) = P(z > mean)


Therefore

Code: Select all
kdratio(mean) = 1


So it may be concluded that an average player on the server will have a K/D of 1. To appeal to an average player, the K/D requirement should be set around 1.

Now, I am well aware that in reality the K/D distribution on the server looks a lot more extreme, and that apparently all of the "good" players have a high K/D and there are a lot more players with a low K/D. This is indicative of a few issues.

The first issue is that it is assumed that players with a K/D lower than 1.5 are "bad" players, when in reality some of them may be good players who simply don't have a high K/D. Unless you want to exclude everyone but a smaller portion of players at the top of the skill range from being "good" players, instead of including the entire top half of all players, then this is a flawed assumption. As I have demonstrated, the top half of all players will have a K/D greater than 1. Assuming a fair environment, less than half of the players will have a K/D greater than 1.5 (the actual portion depends on the distribution of player skill levels).

The second issue, a development of the first issue, is that the few (relatively speaking) players that have a high K/D are now preventing more potentially-good players from achieving a high K/D, because they have superior weapons. This is very likely one reason why there are so many more players with a low K/D than a high K/D.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:how anyone can reasonably expect every good player on the server to simultaneously hold a K/D greater than 1.5.

Thats because not everyone is good. Bad players has K/D much less than 1. Probably around 0.5. Thats why it is possible to require 1.5 from good players.

Depends how you define "good". If you define "good" as "average", which will include the majority of active players while excluding the below-average noobs who join once and then give up, then the expected K/D could be as low as 1. See previous quote for detailed explanation.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:The only other solution would be to avoid score/ranking entirely, and to have a system based on "give back what you take out".

I agree with this idea. Thats why I submitted issue about Chest points.

That does seem like a good system although I disagree with the idea of resetting every match, because this can easily create a situation where one or two players snap up all the loot chests at the start of the round and then the other players have nothing to trade for. To me the best method would be to have a total "score" of items taken and a total "score" of items given for each player, and if the items taken score is greater than the items given score by more than a decided threshold then they cannot take any more items. The score is a weighted count of items, where something like a pistol or a steel sword counts as 1, lower-valued items count as a lower value (say, a stone sword could be 0.5), and higher-valued items count as a higher value (say, a diamond sword or a rifle could be 2). If players "saving up" the score is a potential problem, then the score of items given could be capped so that it cannot increment beyond the items given score plus a decided threshold.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Sun Dec 02, 2018 18:46

You are quite the troll, obviously you don't like ctf very much so why don't you quit it and go along your merry way?
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Sun Dec 02, 2018 20:56

Stix wrote:You are quite the troll, obviously you don't like ctf very much so why don't you quit it and go along your merry way?

Typical troll usually write less than his opponents. So far, micheal is writing a lot more than we are.

CTF in MT is about "beat your enemy until he loses all his weapons. Then grab the flag."
Good player in MT-CTF knows how to get good sword with bad one or without sword at all.
Good players needs pro section to have a way to store surplus of good weapons.
Pro section is not about sharing. It is about keeping items out of the game.
K/D requirement is supposed to limit access to some fraction of players, who don't waste weapons.

All your reasoning sounds like pro section automatically generates good weapons out of nowhere.
Actually, it contains only items, stored by other players.

K/D limit might be reduced. If that happen, I personally will destroy any surplus of good weapons, which I will have on hands. If I die (which is quite often), then enemy should not get good weapons back.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 23:04

Xudo wrote:CTF in MT is about "beat your enemy until he loses all his weapons. Then grab the flag."

That's only one strategy. The strategy that I like to use is "run in and grab the flag hopefully without being noticed, kill off anyone who does notice". Works even better if you have a backup person to cover your back.
Xudo wrote:Good player in MT-CTF knows how to get good sword with bad one or without sword at all.

Only when other player with sword does not know how to use sword. I don't know how many more times I have to say this: if you're against players with good swords, and the other players are not dumb (which most players that do more than wandering around aimlessly digging blocks out of the base are not dumb) you can't reliably kill them with a bad sword (and if you do it's down to luck/chance).
Xudo wrote:Pro section is not about sharing. It is about keeping items out of the game.

Wrong. It's about sharing with other members of the team.
Xudo wrote:K/D requirement is supposed to limit access to some fraction of players, who don't waste weapons.

As I've already explained, a player with a K/D of around 1 is not a waste of weapons. A K/D around 1 is enough to indicate that a player is actually playing the game, not hanging around the base getting killed.
Xudo wrote:All your reasoning sounds like pro section automatically generates good weapons out of nowhere.
Actually, it contains only items, stored by other players.

I am well aware of that. I never implied otherwise. When I say that "players with a low K/D don't have access to good weapons" I mean "players with a low K/D don't have access to the good weapons that other players have put in the pro section of the chest". I'm not stupid. Honestly that's a stupid rebuttal for you to use.
Xudo wrote:K/D limit might be reduced. If that happen, I personally will destroy any surplus of good weapons, which I will have on hands.

Well that's just dumb. Hey, here's an idea, let's leave the rest of the team without weapons so they can stand around getting killed. When I find myself without a weapon (i.e. when there's one of those very annoying players that perfectly stocks up the pro section of the chest and then leaves the other section conspicuously empty when they obviously have a surplus of weapons) I quit the game, because I don't feel like standing around getting killed helplessly when there's nothing else that I can do. So next time you destroy a weapon, remember this: there might be a player like me who would happily (and quite capably) watch your back while you go in for the flag, if they had a decent weapon.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Lone_Wolf » Mon Dec 03, 2018 00:43

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:K/D requirement is supposed to limit access to some fraction of players, who don't waste weapons.

As I've already explained, a player with a K/D of around 1 is not a waste of weapons. A K/D around 1 is enough to indicate that a player is actually playing the game, not hanging around the base getting killed.

If you have a K/D of 1 or more that might also mean you harvest noobs in the dead hours. Before you lower the Pro chest K/D limit you should fix the fact that there won't always be 2+ pros on 24/7.

And the pro chest being full of good stuff while the other side is empty is usually the work of the noobs that hoard swords. I've filled the open-to-all side of the chest with steel swords and seen them all disappear. A little while later a noob timed out inside the base. Flooding it with the steel swords. Could have even been a player on the enemy team griefing my team too. I've seen players that can join on both teams before.
Also: When it comes to PvPing players I have a little below average skills. Yet my K/D is 1.9
Simply going by K/D or score is not enough to get even teams. Match me against another player with 1.9 K/D and I will usually lose :P
Score just means you're a good tunneler or great at capturing flags
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by ANAND » Mon Dec 03, 2018 03:58

micheal65536 wrote:Wrong. You can't (regularly, reliably) earn a good weapon with a bad weapon (unless the players on other team are mostly stupid). What you can do, and what I can do, is earn a good weapon with another good weapon. So with a steel sword I can kill someone else who has a steel sword. Then I can bring their steel sword back to the chest. Expecting anyone to kill someone with a good weapon using a bad weapon is unreasonable.


Understand that reasoning and statistics go out the window, in CTF. It is very much possible to kill someone having a better weapon, and if not, you can always team up with another player from your team. Teaming is what CTF is all about.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 05:59

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:CTF in MT is about "beat your enemy until he loses all his weapons. Then grab the flag."

That's only one strategy. The strategy that I like to use is "run in and grab the flag hopefully without being noticed, kill off anyone who does notice". Works even better if you have a backup person to cover your back.

You will probably die in this situation and literally bring good sword to the enemy.
It is waste. Don't go for flag with good sword, please.
There is no sense in killing players on the base. They respawn immediately.
I can successfully defend base with stone sword. Even if attackers come up with steel one.
Attackers always outnumbered and distracted.

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:Good player in MT-CTF knows how to get good sword with bad one or without sword at all.

Only when other player with sword does not know how to use sword. I don't know how many more times I have to say this: if you're against players with good swords, and the other players are not dumb (which most players that do more than wandering around aimlessly digging blocks out of the base are not dumb) you can't reliably kill them with a bad sword (and if you do it's down to luck/chance).

You should not attack alone. Even if you die, your teammate can finish your enemy and bring throphies to the base.

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:Pro section is not about sharing. It is about keeping items out of the game.

Wrong. It's about sharing with other members of the team.

Why do you think, pro section exists at all?
Common part of team chest works fine for sharing.

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:K/D requirement is supposed to limit access to some fraction of players, who don't waste weapons.

As I've already explained, a player with a K/D of around 1 is not a waste of weapons. A K/D around 1 is enough to indicate that a player is actually playing the game, not hanging around the base getting killed.

K/D around 1 means that player mindlessly attack everything he sees.
I usually hang around the base, digging and building.
My K/D is around of 2 because I kill players attempting to steal flag.
I'm very glad when noobs from other team come to my base with good weapons.

micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:K/D limit might be reduced. If that happen, I personally will destroy any surplus of good weapons, which I will have on hands.

Well that's just dumb. Hey, here's an idea, let's leave the rest of the team without weapons so they can stand around getting killed. When I find myself without a weapon (i.e. when there's one of those very annoying players that perfectly stocks up the pro section of the chest and then leaves the other section conspicuously empty when they obviously have a surplus of weapons) I quit the game, because I don't feel like standing around getting killed helplessly when there's nothing else that I can do. So next time you destroy a weapon, remember this: there might be a player like me who would happily (and quite capably) watch your back while you go in for the flag, if they had a decent weapon.

Goal of the game is not killing other players.It is about carrying the flag.
To survive on enemy base, you don't need good weapon. You need to leave enemy team without good weapons. Do you feel the difference?
Running to enemy base with good weapon is helping enemy to win.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 08:47

Lone_Wolf wrote:If you have a K/D of 1 or more that might also mean you harvest noobs in the dead hours.

It could, yes. But "harvesting noobs" has multiple flaws. Firstly, that is not at all the objective of the game and if this was my server aimlessly killing noobs to improve one's score would be a punishable offence, not a side-quest to get around a design flaw in the game. Secondly, some of those "noobs" might actually be good players who don't have a good weapon, and by killing them for no reason you're hurting their chances of ever getting into the game even more.
Lone_Wolf wrote:Before you lower the Pro chest K/D limit you should fix the fact that there won't always be 2+ pros on 24/7.

In my experience, there are usually two or three pros (in this case "pro" meaning "someone with steel swords and access to the pro section of the chest") on both teams.
Lone_Wolf wrote:And the pro chest being full of good stuff while the other side is empty is usually the work of the noobs that hoard swords. I've filled the open-to-all side of the chest with steel swords and seen them all disappear. A little while later a noob timed out inside the base. Flooding it with the steel swords.

Fair enough. What I see happen is a match with maybe 75% pros on both teams and someone will come into the base, unload two steel swords into the pro section of the chest so that it is full, then walk out again. Then a little while later they'll come back (obviously carrying more weapons), remove a pistol or some cobblestone from the pro section of the chest and unload one steel sword in its place, then walk out again. All the while leaving the other section completely empty. A noob didn't take it, I was watching the chest the entire time and there were only one or two other players in the base. Basically, they have a mentally of "don't ever put anything in the other section" as though it was completely worthless.

I can't really fault players stocking up the pro section of the chest first. But always deliberately leaving the other section empty is, in my opinion, very unhelpful and not constructive, almost rude/snobish in a way. Either they're playing their own "strategy" at the expense of the other players or they have a condescending attitude towards "noobs" (using the term in a derogatory way here).
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 08:53

ANAND wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:Wrong. You can't (regularly, reliably) earn a good weapon with a bad weapon (unless the players on other team are mostly stupid). What you can do, and what I can do, is earn a good weapon with another good weapon. So with a steel sword I can kill someone else who has a steel sword. Then I can bring their steel sword back to the chest. Expecting anyone to kill someone with a good weapon using a bad weapon is unreasonable.


Understand that reasoning and statistics go out the window, in CTF. It is very much possible to kill someone having a better weapon, and if not, you can always team up with another player from your team. Teaming is what CTF is all about.

Statistics don't go out the window in a competitive game like this. On average, a player has a higher chance of killing a player with a lower skill than them than killing a player with a higher skill, and on average players with better weapons will have a higher chance of killing a player without good weapons than another player with equal weapons. I'm not doubting that it is sometimes possible to kill someone using an inferior weapon, but statistically (and in practice) it is not possible to do so reliably in order to achieve and maintain a high K/D. If all of the good players have a high K/D, it probably indicates an imbalance somewhere (or you need to reconsider how you define "good").

Teaming up with another player? Ha ha.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 09:04

Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:That's only one strategy. The strategy that I like to use is "run in and grab the flag hopefully without being noticed, kill off anyone who does notice". Works even better if you have a backup person to cover your back.

You will probably die in this situation and literally bring good sword to the enemy.
It is waste. Don't go for flag with good sword, please.

Firstly, don't tell me what strategy I must and mustn't use. Secondly, I have successfully used this strategy on multiple occasions when I have a good sword.
Xudo wrote:There is no sense in killing players on the base. They respawn immediately.

Which is why I also suggested preventing players from attacking for as long as they are immune. This way if you kill someone in the base there is a cooldown before they can start attacking you again.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:Good player in MT-CTF knows how to get good sword with bad one or without sword at all.

Only when other player with sword does not know how to use sword. I don't know how many more times I have to say this: if you're against players with good swords, and the other players are not dumb (which most players that do more than wandering around aimlessly digging blocks out of the base are not dumb) you can't reliably kill them with a bad sword (and if you do it's down to luck/chance).

You should not attack alone. Even if you die, your teammate can finish your enemy and bring throphies to the base.

How can I not attack alone when half of the team is randomly digging blocks from the base and the other half is off skybridging on their own (seriously, that is the most unoriginal tactic I have ever seen)? And when I say "someone watch my back I'm going in for the flag" and no one pays any attention?
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:Pro section is not about sharing. It is about keeping items out of the game.

Wrong. It's about sharing with other members of the team.

Why do you think, pro section exists at all?
Common part of team chest works fine for sharing.

Pro section exists for sharing among the good players without stuff being taken by noobs. The problem here is that the requirement for what constitutes a "good" player is statistically incorrect and is excluding newer players and preventing (or making it difficult) them from being able to ever achieve a "good" classification.
Xudo wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:
Xudo wrote:K/D requirement is supposed to limit access to some fraction of players, who don't waste weapons.

As I've already explained, a player with a K/D of around 1 is not a waste of weapons. A K/D around 1 is enough to indicate that a player is actually playing the game, not hanging around the base getting killed.

K/D around 1 means that player mindlessly attack everything he sees.

How? Those are the kinds of players that have a K/D less than 1 (0.5, or worse) because they just attack everyone and get overrun and killed all the time.
Xudo wrote:I usually hang around the base, digging and building.
My K/D is around of 2 because I kill players attempting to steal flag.

I prefer to capture the flag instead of defending. If you mostly play as a defender, then don't comment on the balance of the game when it comes to capturing.
Xudo wrote:Goal of the game is not killing other players.It is about carrying the flag.

I know that. But you need a sword in order to successfully get to and return the flag without being killed.
Xudo wrote:To survive on enemy base, you don't need good weapon. You need to leave enemy team without good weapons.

Firstly, if you survive then it doesn't matter what weapons you're carrying. Secondly, having a good enough weapon in order to survive is a greater priority than leaving the enemy without weapons. As I've said already, leaving the enemy without weapons is one strategy that you seem to like using. There are also other strategies that do require weapons, and don't try to impose your strategy as the strategy and then claim that the game mechanics are correct just because it happens to work well for your strategy even if it doesn't work well for other strategies.
Xudo wrote:Running to enemy base with good weapon is helping enemy to win.

It's also a good way to get to and return the flag without getting killed.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Xudo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:03

micheal65536, why "good but new players" can't craft sword for himself?
There are iron ore on most maps. Sometimes there are mese and diamond ores too. They doesn't have K/D requirement to dig.

I impose my strategy as only valid strategy, which eventually can lead your team to victory. Snatching to enemy base trying to steal flag ends with carrier death too often to be reliable.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Chem871 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 14:11

Michael, if you really have to, just steal a sword if someone on your team tries to give it to someone else.
What is SCP-055 again? I forgot.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Lone_Wolf » Mon Dec 03, 2018 15:42

micheal65536 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:If you have a K/D of 1 or more that might also mean you harvest noobs in the dead hours.

It could, yes. But "harvesting noobs" has multiple flaws. Firstly, that is not at all the objective of the game and if this was my server aimlessly killing noobs to improve one's score would be a punishable offence, not a side-quest to get around a design flaw in the game. Secondly, some of those "noobs" might actually be good players who don't have a good weapon, and by killing them for no reason you're hurting their chances of ever getting into the game even more.
Lone_Wolf wrote:Before you lower the Pro chest K/D limit you should fix the fact that there won't always be 2+ pros on 24/7.

In my experience, there are usually two or three pros (in this case "pro" meaning "someone with steel swords and access to the pro section of the chest") on both teams.
Lone_Wolf wrote:And the pro chest being full of good stuff while the other side is empty is usually the work of the noobs that hoard swords. I've filled the open-to-all side of the chest with steel swords and seen them all disappear. A little while later a noob timed out inside the base. Flooding it with the steel swords.

Fair enough. What I see happen is a match with maybe 75% pros on both teams and someone will come into the base, unload two steel swords into the pro section of the chest so that it is full, then walk out again. Then a little while later they'll come back (obviously carrying more weapons), remove a pistol or some cobblestone from the pro section of the chest and unload one steel sword in its place, then walk out again. All the while leaving the other section completely empty. A noob didn't take it, I was watching the chest the entire time and there were only one or two other players in the base. Basically, they have a mentally of "don't ever put anything in the other section" as though it was completely worthless.

I can't really fault players stocking up the pro section of the chest first. But always deliberately leaving the other section empty is, in my opinion, very unhelpful and not constructive, almost rude/snobish in a way. Either they're playing their own "strategy" at the expense of the other players or they have a condescending attitude towards "noobs" (using the term in a derogatory way here).


Have you ever seen me ban a troublemaker on HT? Those are the types of players that farm noobs. They don't care. They just want a better K/D

I've joined matches where there was only one pro online (usually a noob farmer)

I think it's you're missing my point. Sorry.
Pros don't put the good weapons in the open-to-all side because they don't want a team-griefer to get a hold of them. They have nothing against you. And if you don't have good swords you'll usually lose the match. It's safer to put weapons in the pro chest.

When the furnace bug gets fixed I would recommend mining for your swords. You could even try asking a pro

Btw I had to reset my rankings once to get 1.5+ K/D. Maybe try that
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by rubenwardy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 16:06

Lone_Wolf wrote:When the furnace bug gets fixed I would recommend mining for your swords. You could even try asking a pro


This bug should have been fixed
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Lone_Wolf » Tue Dec 04, 2018 03:44

rubenwardy wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:When the furnace bug gets fixed I would recommend mining for your swords. You could even try asking a pro


This bug should have been fixed

I hadn't played in a while. I just did a few rounds today and it works. Thanks!
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Gaara » Wed Dec 05, 2018 13:07

WARNING: Monster post

micheal here is a suggestion. How about you stop crying and git gud?
All you did here is talk about your hypothetical "statistics", statistics need hard data which you don't provide to back your statements up, you can wave your hands around and make theories but you need to PROVE them, and not with one of your cherrypicked scenarios. If what you say is true about noobs not being able to become pros then how is anyone a pro? If you can't kill without being able to use the pro side then how does anyone kill? All you say is that "you are a noob coz they are pros", "you're a noob coz the pros hog all the loot", "you're a noob coz they have good stuff".

If you don't know how to get stuff or kill with a stone sword then you're a noob coz you are a noob. Everyone's skill level is different, therefore even if everyone had the same weapons all players K/Ds would not be 1 or near 1 the skill levels would cause it to vary (Iceage proves that). So why don't you stop wasting your and our time over here and go git gud.

PS: About "no one has a strategy" lets start with one that is used a ton: bleeding the other team dry, in this epic strategy your team tries to fight the other team and steal all their weapons and tools till the cant possibly fight back, then you go take the flag.
Strategy 2: the loulicats, here you try to be a sneaky ninja avoiding any combat by building up, running away and hiding then you sneakily take the flag and run for your life (you gotta be really good at running away tho)
Strategy 3: rushing, you and a bunch of teammates rush in with good weapons and kill anything that moves then one of you takes the flag and the others protect them.
Strategy 4: bridging, bridge take the flag and run while blocking the path behind you.
Strategy 5: tunneling, tunnel take flag run back through the tunnel blocking the path behind you (lots of people hate this)
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Chem871 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 13:51

Michael, do you play on mobile(phone, tablet), or do you play on a pc?
What is SCP-055 again? I forgot.
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by Stix » Wed Dec 05, 2018 16:08

Hes on PC, he used to play on CTF as "ThatGuy91" i believe.

@Gaara thanks for that, maybe he'll shut up now.
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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 20:41

Lone_Wolf wrote:Have you ever seen me ban a troublemaker on HT? Those are the types of players that farm noobs. They don't care. They just want a better K/D

I've joined matches where there was only one pro online (usually a noob farmer)

I think it's you're missing my point. Sorry.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that "noob farming" is actually considered acceptable, or that you're not condoning it but just stating it as a "strategy" that some players use anyway?
Lone_Wolf wrote:When the furnace bug gets fixed I would recommend mining for your swords.

Hold up, there are furnaces on this server?
Lone_Wolf wrote:You could even try asking a pro

Tried that. Was ignored.
Lone_Wolf wrote:Btw I had to reset my rankings once to get 1.5+ K/D. Maybe try that

What is "resetting your rankings"? You mean there's still a way out even if I've already ranked up 100 kills and 100 deaths and would have to make a whole 50 kills without dieing a single time?
 

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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

by micheal65536 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 20:42

Chem871 wrote:Michael, do you play on mobile(phone, tablet), or do you play on a pc?

PC.
Stix wrote:Hes on PC, he used to play on CTF as "ThatGuy91" i believe.

I never used that name. I have no idea where you got that from.
 

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