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Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:00
by Gaara
Pete: Maybe Anand was being sarcastic.

And it is still considered spawn killing even if the player fights back. IMO spawn killing is when a player kills a player who has just spawned and is helpless. Image the scene: Random OP player with diamond sword and 30+ apples goes to enemies spawn and starts massacring just spawned players, those players caught by surprise will obviously fight back, with no apples and a steel pick while the random OP spawnkiller will have all the things that they need to "pump up their K/D ratio"

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 17:45
by Chem871
They can just run.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 19:24
by IceAgeComing
Gaara wrote:Pete: Maybe Anand was being sarcastic.

And it is still considered spawn killing even if the player fights back. IMO spawn killing is when a player kills a player who has just spawned and is helpless. Image the scene: Random OP player with diamond sword and 30+ apples goes to enemies spawn and starts massacring just spawned players, those players caught by surprise will obviously fight back, with no apples and a steel pick while the random OP spawnkiller will have all the things that they need to "pump up their K/D ratio"


I think all depends of situation. I think "spawnkilling" is justified if your team has taken the flag and you trying to hold enemies off. Also when it's a very even battle and you might be trying to win yourself a better weapon, etc.

But at the same time i dont agree with people spawnkilling when that team is already so beat down and weaponless, i find it so distasteful. Just get the flag and end the game, instead of spawnkilling endlessly a team that has really lost already all their gear and hope.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 21:11
by Lone_Wolf
If they don't fight back they have 15 seconds of immortality that they can use to escape don't they?

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 02:56
by cautiouspotato
IceAgeComing wrote:
Gaara wrote:Pete: Maybe Anand was being sarcastic.

And it is still considered spawn killing even if the player fights back. IMO spawn killing is when a player kills a player who has just spawned and is helpless. Image the scene: Random OP player with diamond sword and 30+ apples goes to enemies spawn and starts massacring just spawned players, those players caught by surprise will obviously fight back, with no apples and a steel pick while the random OP spawnkiller will have all the things that they need to "pump up their K/D ratio"


I think all depends of situation. I think "spawnkilling" is justified if your team has taken the flag and you trying to hold enemies off. Also when it's a very even battle and you might be trying to win yourself a better weapon, etc.

But at the same time i dont agree with people spawnkilling when that team is already so beat down and weaponless, i find it so distasteful. Just get the flag and end the game, instead of spawnkilling endlessly a team that has really lost already all their gear and hope.


I agree with IceAge, it's needed when letting a teammate with the flag escape, but beyond that just staying and killing endlessly "to get a higher K/D ratio" is not justified, I'm looking at you PETE and sublimeC, just capturing the flag and spawnkilling ruins the game.

And most of the time they can't run away, as the spawnkillers actively chase and kill them.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 05:38
by Enrikoo
But there is a warning for the pros over 10 K/D or not? I also agree with IceAge who can play a lot better than me and I do not play as usual. Pros over 2 K/D do the right thing and got a lot more points. No matter if 10 K/D.

How about, If noobs only in a CTF server to go only for Android is allowed and a CTF server on the PC is allowed? Then we all play fair and there is no fight against noobs and pros. But new members get several K/D and score points and we ourselves more or less.
For this ANAND have to be careful because the new members do not wait much longer to make a new game to earn K/D again. ANAND has to attach the flag to the team and the end is the game.
Also ANAND does not know if K/D will do anything or the points that will reduce the K/D and cause more points. PETE is still good for that.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 06:01
by Gaara
I agree with IceAge too, in a way it does depend on the situation, and sometimes the map as well. But most of the time that is what happens, or even worse (someone might smuggle a better weapon from the last match) and its not really fair. Simple solution: Just stop spawnkilling.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 14:13
by ANAND
The more spawn-killing I witness, the more I'm starting to dislike the original map (Two hills and two lakes). Apples are there for a good reason, but since they're not taken for granted any more, players have started hogging even more apples, and abuse their potential to heal for the sinister purpose of spawn-killing. Nowadays, I get 2 full stacks of apples by just killing 4-5 players. In an attempt to reduce the apple-hogging tendency to a certain extent, I've modified the game's code (this would hopefully get approved by rubenwardy soon) to allow only a maximum of 30 apples per stack.

ShovelsMcGee wrote:As an alternative, you don't actually need to differentiate spawnkilling at all - simply make it a poor strategy.


What do you propose we do to achieve the same?

PETE wrote:ANAND the reason why you are no.1 is that you spawn killed for hours to get that many kills.


I did spawn-kill in the very early days, but quickly got over it. Spawn-killing just gives you a paltry 7 pts. / noob - Racking up a score of 800000+ by just spawn-killing for hours is just outright impossible IMO. It's extremely boring (not to mention, a violation of the rules) to massacre a team of noobs who do nothing against you, apart from strafing side to side...

PETE wrote:It's not spawnkilling if the people fight back.


Spawn-killing does not have an official definition yet, but is assumed to be the heinous crime (:P) of massacring poor noobs with no intention of fighting anyone, and have no good weapons to speak of anyway. It is definitely spawn-killing if you hunt them down like cows, chasing them all the way out to the darkest corners of the map.

gimp wrote:Didn't you notice ANAND was being sarcastic?


PETE does not seem to notice anything other than his own forum posts, and his own rank, score, and K/D in-game.

Chem871 wrote:They can just run.

Lone_Wolf wrote:If they don't fight back they have 15 seconds of immortality that they can use to escape don't they?


No can do - spawn-killers would chase them down, persistently attacking them until their respawn immunity ends...

IceAgeComing wrote:I think all depends of situation. I think "spawnkilling" is justified if your team has taken the flag and you trying to hold enemies off. Also when it's a very even battle and you might be trying to win yourself a better weapon, etc.

But at the same time i dont agree with people spawnkilling when that team is already so beat down and weaponless, i find it so distasteful. Just get the flag and end the game, instead of spawnkilling endlessly a team that has really lost already all their gear and hope.


The latter is what is actually considered spawn-killing - defending the flag-bearer cannot be considered spawn-killing at all, unless players use this excuse to actually spawn-kill, in spite of the flag-bearer safely reaching the of their base (in which case the said players should've been ensuring the safety of the flag-bearer near the base)

Enrikoo wrote:How about, If noobs only in a CTF server to go only for Android is allowed and a CTF server on the PC is allowed? Then we all play fair and there is no fight against noobs and pros.


Unfortunately that is a distant dream, since over 90% of our user-base play on Android. Taking them all away would mean that the server would almost always be empty, barren and deserted (they all mean the same :P)

BTW, the rest of your post makes no sense whatsoever - could you please re-word the same to make it understandable?

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 16:01
by rubenwardy
I've banned PETE and his "cousin" on the forums for 7 days starting yesterday after several warnings and smaller temp bans about double posting

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 18:43
by Enrikoo
I know my English is not good for that and that too is a bit offtopic.
No word is wrong. No one says it's a lie or that it's a nonsense.

By the way ANAND I have used a translator to make it more understandable and ... it still does not work on long texts. At first you were not sure. What's wrong? With me, the English almost nothing at all.
Then you have to tell me in the future words in GERMAN so you can keep in touch better.
I can not take it anymore why 10 out of 50 players always say that I am speech impaired.
And I should not * very * exactly make english but it should be at least understandable.
I'm not talking about fair play skills.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 20:07
by Lone_Wolf
If a spawnkiller hunts down one player that means the rest can get away while the spawnkiller is chasing the other player.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 20:23
by Gael de Sailly
Really epic game this evening on the bridge map, with in total 20 potentially "pro" players. The round lasted precisely 1h28 and there were 577 kills! Most people have seen their K/D badly affected.
+ Summary
+ Scores

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 21:33
by Gael de Sailly
ANAND wrote:Spawn-killing just gives you a paltry 7 pts. / noob - Racking up a score of 800000+ by just spawn-killing for hours is just outright impossible IMO.

By the way, adding points per kill stats would discourage spawnkilling.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 00:34
by DragonsVolcanoDance
The match was indeed quite epic...and deadly. >:) I would like to see something like that again soon!
Unfortunately I had to leave halfway through, but it sounds like the rest was awesome! I'm also very thankful how there was actually no one around that I can remember who was complaining and spoiling all the fun for everyone else. (we don't need more of that...)
Thanks for the summery Gael de Sailly. Very interesting :)
Also did anyone notice how in the first screenshot of the ranks Enrico was on both teams? Traitor!
Jk! XD
Wow.....it's nice to see all the fighting players back :) too bad ANAND missed out on this one though..

Wait, Sontrunks as well? Two traitors!
One more and we have a rebellion! Better watch out rubenwardy!
:P
haha..just messing with ya..

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 01:15
by Gael de Sailly
DragonsVolcanoDance wrote:Also did anyone notice how in the first screenshot of the ranks Enrico was on both teams? Traitor!

Indeed team switching should never happen. It happened to me on Monday when I was playing in the caves, in blue team, my wifi connection was bad so I left and switched to ethernet. When I reconnected I was in red team! It's very annoying because I didn't have the feeling to play in a consistent way (everything I built, and destroyed, along with the weapons I brought back, was now against me).
And some players even use this bug on purpose to join the strongest team, I hate that :O

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 01:49
by ANAND
Lone_Wolf wrote:If a spawnkiller hunts down one player that means the rest can get away while the spawnkiller is chasing the other player.


Spawn-killers tend to hunt in packs, they're generally not lone wolves :P

Gael de Sailly wrote:Really epic game this evening on the bridge map, with in total 20 potentially "pro" players. The round lasted precisely 1h28 and there were 577 kills! Most people have seen their K/D badly affected.


Wow!! It melts my heart to see so many pros in attendance.. :D

DragonsVolcanoDance: I do miss not playing that match badly - I guess my time-zone is to be blamed for that... :|

Gael de Sailly wrote:By the way, adding points per kill stats would discourage spawnkilling.


IMO, points per kill should be the primary criterium for the rankings, and not the total scores.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 03:28
by Waterbug
Gael de Sailly wrote:Indeed team switching should never happen. It happened to me on Monday when I was playing in the caves, in blue team, my wifi connection was bad so I left and switched to ethernet. When I reconnected I was in red team! It's very annoying because I didn't have the feeling to play in a consistent way (everything I built, and destroyed, along with the weapons I brought back, was now against me).
And some players even use this bug on purpose to join the strongest team, I hate that :O

I agree

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 04:46
by Coder12
Why is everyone here talking about spawnkilling?

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 05:39
by Enrikoo
Wow that was an incredible epic round! I would have played that too and only had 3.4K / D! If ANAND had been there, ANAND's team would win! No one has ever argued and spoiled the fun, you're right, and good that you tell rubenwardy. We could also get rewards. :P

And the K / D qualities are getting smaller and smaller with everyone and it depends a lot on this game. To become a surgical killer you have to have a good computer with 60 FPS or maybe 40 FPS. With 10 - 20 FPS your computer would have been weak. In a weak computer, it is on the verge that it once had 60 FPS. That would have to be new.

Coder12: We're all talking about spawnkilling because IceAge started with the theme that spawnkilling is bad. Spawnkilling ruins the game. It only comes to steal the flag and then attach it to its base.
And what I find it bad that I have to change the teams because homthack told me I have to play another server to watch the cool valuable privileges. But that was not your fault. :)

Waterbug has been registered in forum and can now tell us his strategies! Hooray

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 06:24
by ANAND
Coder12 wrote:Why is everyone here talking about spawnkilling?


Spawn-killing is currently the biggest issue plaguing the server at the moment - that's why. It's also just an extended discussion that we're having at present...

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 07:49
by ShovelsMcGee
ANAND wrote:What do you propose we do to achieve the same?


I dont really have any concrete suggestions as it stands, but I too, am all ears.

ANAND wrote:I did spawn-kill in the very early days, but quickly got over it. Spawn-killing just gives you a paltry 7 pts. / noob - Racking up a score of 800000+ by just spawn-killing for hours is just outright impossible IMO. It's extremely boring (not to mention, a violation of the rules) to massacre a team of noobs who do nothing against you, apart from strafing side to side...


Can confirm, ANAND stopped shortly after I did. His score is just down to a massive amount of game time.

ANAND wrote:Spawn-killing does not have an official definition yet, but is assumed to be the heinous crime (:P) of massacring poor noobs with no intention of fighting anyone, and have no good weapons to speak of anyway. It is definitely spawn-killing if you hunt them down like cows, chasing them all the way out to the darkest corners of the map.


Pretty much, though it doesnt have to be restricted to noobs, it is just that pros can generally escape. Though a team of spawnkillers and a lack of weapons to use can even cause pros to be spawnkilled sometimes.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 14:54
by Chem871
I've never been spawnkilled here, Idk why.

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 17:05
by Waterbug
Gael de Sailly wrote:Really epic game this evening on the bridge map, with in total 20 potentially "pro" players. The round lasted precisely 1h28 and there were 577 kills! Most people have seen their K/D badly affected.

Wow. 20+ pros in one match! I guess I can safely say that the golden age of capture the flag is back

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 17:14
by rubenwardy
On that note, I'm sorry, but unfortunately I'm going to have to shut the server down again. Here is a video explaining why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

+ Video Transcript

Re: [Server] Capture the Flag Server (Guns!) - Multiple maps

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 18:25
by IceAgeComing
rubenwardy wrote:On that note, I'm sorry, but unfortunately I'm going to have to shut the server down again. Here is a video explaining why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ


I shall never forgive you! Can't believe i fell for this!

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