[Server] Survival X

talamh
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by talamh » Sun Sep 02, 2018 16:57

SaKeL could you give one or more of the currently active players /kick so that this spamming nonsense can be dealt with? It makes it difficult to configure machines when the chat feedback from distributors and movers is on screen for less than a second because of spamming.

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talamh
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Re: Currency in vending/deposiding machines

by talamh » Mon Sep 03, 2018 14:21

m8ii wrote:
talamh wrote:
m8ii wrote:I want to be able to change currency in vending and depositing machines like i set . Now because of machines gold is cheap. I want to change currency like i change item in vending/depositing machine.


This would be a great idea.


Third type of machine: Exchanging machine.

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Or could vending/depositing machines be set to accept obsidian shards instead of gold since obsidian cannot be mass produced. I've set up free dispensing machines for several basic items because what would be the point of setting up vending machines just to have to keep stocking them with items and then emptying them of worthless gold?


Edit: changed mese to obsidian - i know mese can be mass produced i meant obsidian!
Last edited by talamh on Wed Sep 05, 2018 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Stix » Mon Sep 03, 2018 14:31

@talamh try opening the full chat console with f10 to see the machine msg's longer.
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talamh
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by talamh » Mon Sep 03, 2018 15:05

Stix wrote:@talamh try opening the full chat console with f10 to see the machine msg's longer.


If the person is repeatedly pasting the message and hitting enter, the machines message won't be visible for very long even with full chat open. Never mind spamming is just a pet peeve of mine, I know it shouldn't annoy me half as much as it does!
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by odiseu » Tue Sep 04, 2018 04:12

I need to report an invasion incident, the house of a player called (aldea2396) was invaded by another player and full of protections the owner's roof.
- I would like you to check this place of coordinates (-257.6 30.5, 5098.4)
-The invading player called (Beta-Zanahoria)
-Evidence
https://ibb.co/fJvkFK
https://ibb.co/k57hvK


I hope that something can be done about it
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Lone_Wolf » Tue Sep 04, 2018 15:00

talamh wrote:
Stix wrote:@talamh try opening the full chat console with f10 to see the machine msg's longer.


If the person is repeatedly pasting the message and hitting enter, the machines message won't be visible for very long even with full chat open. Never mind spamming is just a pet peeve of mine, I know it shouldn't annoy me half as much as it does!

If you're a computer user you should try out the ignore CSM
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Stix » Tue Sep 04, 2018 17:30

Lone_Wolf wrote:
talamh wrote:
Stix wrote:@talamh try opening the full chat console with f10 to see the machine msg's longer.


If the person is repeatedly pasting the message and hitting enter, the machines message won't be visible for very long even with full chat open. Never mind spamming is just a pet peeve of mine, I know it shouldn't annoy me half as much as it does!

If you're a computer user you should try out the ignore CSM

No need, the server already has a built-in ignore command! :P
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Re: Time before deleting account

by MetaKomora » Wed Sep 05, 2018 00:41

ADM17 wrote:
m8ii wrote:What will be, if i long time don't visit this server?
Nothing, SaKeL just cleaned up the server once in february this year. If you worry about your account, just visit the forum from time to time as changes at the server will usually be anounced.



That's what i'm doing, since i don't have much time to play it currently.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Sheriff » Wed Sep 05, 2018 23:00

SaKeL,

I've been in-love with Survival X for years, but the lag gets utterly unbearable when there are lots of users logged in. It just doesn't have the capacity to handle anywhere near its current max-user setting, and it ruins the experience for everyone when it gets overwhelmed, which is pretty frequent.

Is it possible to search chat logs for mentions of "lag" and crosscheck them against the server count at the time of the mentions? If so, I'm sure that you would see mentions of "lag" directly connected with a user-count threshold. If there is no existing technical way of doing this, I could watch out for lag and/or mentions thereof myself, do a /status, and start recording user counts each time it gets bad, to give you an idea.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Stix » Thu Sep 06, 2018 00:15

Sheriff wrote:SaKeL,

I've been in-love with Survival X for years, but the lag gets utterly unbearable when there are lots of users logged in. It just doesn't have the capacity to handle anywhere near its current max-user setting, and it ruins the experience for everyone when it gets overwhelmed, which is pretty frequent.

Is it possible to search chat logs for mentions of "lag" and crosscheck them against the server count at the time of the mentions? If so, I'm sure that you would see mentions of "lag" directly connected with a user-count threshold. If there is no existing technical way of doing this, I could watch out for lag and/or mentions thereof myself, do a /status, and start recording user counts each time it gets bad, to give you an idea.

I've noticed the same thing, and it was so frustrating having 3-10s delays on everything i do all day that i quit.

It was just too laggy to actually play/enjoy the game. Well that and the fact that bfg's public ore generator has ruined the economy (item duplication without an actual cost should never be a thing on survival servers).
Hey, what can i say? I'm the bad guy.
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Thu Sep 06, 2018 09:06

Agree with guys, free stuff can make the game of players meaningless and uninteresting

Its like: "- Someone gave me 100 diamond blocks today. Yeah! Im rich, bye bye server"

Idea of destructive force of free stuff is the same at any server (pvp, pve, skyblock etc)


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PS If you are not admin of server
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by talamh » Thu Sep 06, 2018 13:31

bosapara wrote:Agree with guys, free stuff can make the game of players meaningless and uninteresting

Its like: "- Someone gave me 100 diamond blocks today. Yeah! Im rich, bye bye server"

Idea of destructive force of free stuff is the same at any server (pvp, pve, skyblock etc)


Image

PS If you are not admin of server


The servers economy is broken. Why try to sell something when all you will receive is worthless gold, it's far less effort just to give the item for free.

Free items are here to stay until the basic currency is changed to something that nobody can mass produce with machines. Making gold impossible to mass produce won't work because there is to much already in existence on the server. I've suggested obsidian shards in a previous post as the new basic currency but maybe a new ore (which you cannot grind) could be added that occurs at the same frequency as gold would be a better solution. Even well established players would have to get off their backsides and explore and mine again and it would be worth your while running a shop to try to get some of the new currency.

On top of that you could also impose a drastic solution - if you changed it so that batteries and movers (including existing ones) required the new ore for upgrades instead of the current diamonds and mese then mass production of free items would cease immediately.

Admittedly we would all be broke for a while but that's economic collapse for you.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Thu Sep 06, 2018 13:42

talamh wrote:On top of that you could also impose a drastic solution - if you changed it so that batteries and movers (including existing ones) required the new ore for upgrades instead of the current diamonds and mese then mass production of free items would cease immediately.


If upgrades or main curancy will be changed, we can get a lot of haters that can leave the server.

So need to be careful with this. I think easy way to solve the problem - ask "rich players"
stop offer free stuff or add new rule "You cant give free stuff". Looks weird but works. IMHO
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by talamh » Thu Sep 06, 2018 14:04

bosapara wrote:
talamh wrote:On top of that you could also impose a drastic solution - if you changed it so that batteries and movers (including existing ones) required the new ore for upgrades instead of the current diamonds and mese then mass production of free items would cease immediately.


If upgrades or main curancy will be changed, we can get a lot of haters that can leave the server.

So need to be careful with this. I think easy way to solve the problem - ask "rich players"
stop offer free stuff or add new rule "You cant give free stuff". Looks weird but works. IMHO


"You can't give free stuff" is a good idea but I don't think it goes far enough to fix the problem. It would still be pointless running a shop as you would still only get gold which has no value.

What I am suggesting is basically that it is as if the equivalent of a natural disaster hits the server (does no structural damage except to movers and batteries) and renders the old currency obsolete. As for haters leaving the server, well not everyone survives a natural disaster.

I admit it is an extreme solution but it would work. I firmly believe that gold can no longer function as the currency on the server.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Sheriff » Thu Sep 06, 2018 17:35

So, we have two separate issues (and I don't want either to cause the other to be forgotten): (1) Lag caused by too many users and (2) devaluation caused by inflation.

  • Lag: Perhaps we could try to keep an eye out for consistently unbearable lag. Whenever we see it, we could run a /status command and report the time and user count here in the forum. If it takes ten seconds to move an item from your inventory to a chest, it's time to record/report the user count. If you place a block on the edge of a cliff and walk out on it, only to have it disappear under your feet, and you fall to your death, it's time to check and record/report the user count. :)

  • Devaluation: Though the short-sighted, selfish side of me likes getting unlimited amounts of free stuff, the long-sighted side of me sees that the availability of such can ruin the world's economy, not to mention that it's completely unrealistic. I know that we're discussing an unrealistic universe to begin with, but this takes the unrealism so far that it's no longer a challenge and therefore, no longer fun. It's interesting that challenges are often what make things fun, because of the sense of accomplishment that comes from doing/completing something challenging. With how non-challenging this server is getting, it might as well be a creative, non-survival server. I think that the machine mods enabling this either need to be (1) changed to much more realistic, unexploitable logic or (2) removed. I would be happy to help with the lua scripting.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by talamh » Thu Sep 06, 2018 18:33

Sheriff wrote:So, we have two separate issues (and I don't want either to cause the other to be forgotten): (1) Lag caused by too many users and (2) devaluation caused by inflation.

  • Lag: Perhaps we could try to keep an eye out for consistently unbearable lag. Whenever we see it, we could run a /status command and report the time and user count here in the forum. If it takes ten seconds to move an item from your inventory to a chest, it's time to record/report the user count. If you place a block on the edge of a cliff and walk out on it, only to have it disappear under your feet, and you fall to your death, it's time to check and record/report the user count. :)

  • Devaluation: Though the short-sighted, selfish side of me likes getting unlimited amounts of free stuff, the long-sighted side of me sees that the availability of such can ruin the world's economy, not to mention that it's completely unrealistic. I know that we're discussing an unrealistic universe to begin with, but this takes the unrealism so far that it's no longer a challenge and therefore, no longer fun. It's interesting that challenges are often what make things fun, because of the sense of accomplishment that comes from doing/completing something challenging. With how non-challenging this server is getting, it might as well be a creative, non-survival server. I think that the machine mods enabling this either need to be (1) changed to much more realistic, unexploitable logic or (2) removed. I would be happy to help with the lua scripting.


Lag can be unbelievably bad at times. I will take a note of how many players are online when it hits me too and we can compare figures and see what is reasonable maximum - going to be harsh here and suggest 30 is a more reasonable maximum.

As to devaluation: real world or voxel world makes no difference, if the only restriction on you printing your own money (or gold) is the ability to build a money machine then all money becomes worthless. At the risk of really laboring my point we cannot just destroy the printing presses, we must stop using what has already been printed. We need a legal tender that when you offer it to someone they know you put effort into getting it.

To anyone who thinks gold should remain the server currency: I would like to buy obsidian from you, name your price, I will be standing beside my gold machine with a big smile on my face.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by RabidRabbit » Fri Sep 07, 2018 03:31

I totally agree with talamh, the gold is now value-less among other things (MANY other things). However there are a few items that are still valuable, if we had the ability to exchange things using legitimate exchanging machines it would basically fix the economy. And also Sheriff is on point, the lag gets SO BAD!
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by HONEYBOOBOOCHILD » Fri Sep 07, 2018 03:40

Howdy Rabbits, How y'all doin? The same day that turkey SOULYGAY decided to attack my client I seen him saying "hi" to bfg the hacker who ruined that server. Used to be a good server, my favorite, but it's a shithole now and only gonna get worse. I cursed Survival X in the name of SATAN!!!. later y'all! (:
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by PolySaken » Fri Sep 07, 2018 06:22

HONEYBOOBOOCHILD wrote:Howdy Rabbits, How y'all doin? The same day that turkey SOULYGAY decided to attack my client I seen him saying "hi" to bfg the hacker who ruined that server. Used to be a good server, my favorite, but it's a shithole now and only gonna get worse. I cursed Survival X in the name of SATAN!!!. later y'all! (:

Hmm. yes rather exaggerated, but mostly true.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Stix » Fri Sep 07, 2018 14:09

HONEYBOOBOOCHILD wrote:Howdy Rabbits, How y'all doin? The same day that turkey SOULYGAY decided to attack my client I seen him saying "hi" to bfg the hacker who ruined that server. Used to be a good server, my favorite, but it's a shithole now and only gonna get worse. I cursed Survival X in the name of SATAN!!!. later y'all! (:

Do you have any proof of bfg hacking? Because if not you should know not to throw accusations at someone just because you don't agree with what they did. --Guild

EDIT: now that i think about it the best way to fix the hyperinflation problem would be to disallow machines grinding ingots into iron dust (unrealistic anyway) so that machines can only double your lumps, not infinitely duplicate them...
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by samec » Fri Sep 07, 2018 15:44

I think the lag depends more on number of database transactions than on number of players. It should have no effect on performance when many players are just walking around. On the other side, a huge amount of block moved by machines or by TNT can have bigger load on a server.

If you want to make restrictions to avoid uncontrolled production, then start with limit number of items in a stack. It will be still possible to produce things, but it will takes more space and care.
It is hard to say, what is more valuable. For example a candy block is pretty rare and demand. A brown or orange coral is rare too, but nobody ask for it. For me is most valuable a free land close to a spawn. So the economy can be saved also by taxes. Let say you can have one protection block for 0 tax and every next protection block for higher tax per month, plus a coefficient depending on a distance from the spawn. Or it ca be tied somehow to a city block. Who want to have machines, need a protected space for them and close to the spawn because machines don't like to work when nobody is around. More machines, more space, more protections, more taxes. When tax is not paid, the protections start to disappear. It can also solve a problem with protections placed around by players that builds nothing there and probably never come back to the server.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by m1000 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 16:58

Just an idea about taming the hyperinflation - what if generators stop working?

Energy required for grinding/smelting will become not so easily available which may stabilize the situation to some degree.

Maybe also play with grinding/smelting fuel consumption.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Stix » Fri Sep 07, 2018 18:48

m1000 wrote:Just an idea about taming the hyperinflation - what if generators stop working?

Energy required for grinding/smelting will become not so easily available which may stabilize the situation to some degree.

Maybe also play with grinding/smelting fuel consumption.

You guys are missing the easiest solution (and the one that makes the most sense imo), simply remove the grinders ability to grind ingots into dust, and the ability to grind gems at all. That way infinitely duplicating items is no longer a thing, but grinders are still useful for doubling your minerals yield.
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Fri Sep 07, 2018 19:07

Stix wrote:You guys are missing the easiest solution (and the one that makes the most sense imo), simply remove the grinders ability to grind ingots into dust, and the ability to grind gems at all. That way infinitely duplicating items is no longer a thing, but grinders are still useful for doubling your minerals yield.


'Good idea', it will delete all players from server, who using machines
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Sheriff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 19:11

talamh wrote:Lag can be unbelievably bad at times. I will take a note of how many players are online when it hits me too and we can compare figures and see what is reasonable maximum - going to be harsh here and suggest 30 is a more reasonable maximum.

As to devaluation: real world or voxel world makes no difference, if the only restriction on you printing your own money (or gold) is the ability to build a money machine then all money becomes worthless. At the risk of really laboring my point we cannot just destroy the printing presses, we must stop using what has already been printed. We need a legal tender that when you offer it to someone they know you put effort into getting it.

To anyone who thinks gold should remain the server currency: I would like to buy obsidian from you, name your price, I will be standing beside my gold machine with a big smile on my face.


Lag: Thanks for agreeing to report lags! I'll try to do the same.

IRL: Your point about real-world economies is exactly why I used the phrase, "can ruin the world's economy". :) I was making the same point, in more subtle style. (Heehee.)

Something from nothing: Machines which can ultimately create something from nothing are unrealistic. Not only are they devaluing the currency du jour--they are devaluing anything and everything that they are used to create. Even if we switch to a currency which can not be created from nothing, we will still have a devaluation problem with everything else that can.

Example: Say shops start using obsidian shards for currency. Everything the shops sell gets inflated by mass production (something from nothing). Nobody (except the ignorant) ever buys anything from shops any more. Everyone tears down their shops and replaces them with amusement parks. The server, for all intents and purposes, turns into a creative server. Anyone who enjoys the true sense of "survival" leaves the server which has "survival" in its name.
 

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