[Server] Survival X

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SaKeL
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sat Dec 01, 2018 17:19

UPDATE
* you don't have to type "default:" prefix anymore in marketplace when using find, sell, buy...so instead of default:cobble you can type just cobble
* generators will not work anymore when player is not online

(will be available after next restart)
 

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bosapara
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Sat Dec 01, 2018 17:30

SaKeL wrote:
bosapara wrote:Exist some possibility to make lag with distributor. We can use more than 5 generators, that will work in offline. Just need to create a lot of accounts.

How about to add restrictions to generator, that will produce fuel only if player in online? It can a few fix abuse of distributor and a reduce lags. Players could use only small machines, not giant like at the moment pic.


Sounds like a good idea, i didnt know that generators can work also offline.


Yep, it works. On the github im offered this idea 2 month ago, but it wasn't added.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by odiseu » Sat Dec 01, 2018 17:45

Sheriff wrote:Separate observation: FYI, some times, when I'm working on killing Balrog, he'll suddenly disappear, especially if he walks into a lag void. Even if I walk all over the arena and eliminate all of the lag voids, he's completely gone and doesn't reappear until his next spawn cycle.


Very true, report this a long time ago also disappears when the player does not arrive in time to hit 20 or 30 seconds after the appearance of balrog can disappear, and appear waiting for another hour.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by lightseer » Sat Dec 01, 2018 17:45

Furnaces work offline without causing lag. Why must the generators cause lag? Why must there be lag when machines don't go anywhere or do much at all? I don't understand how they work, but I know that furnaces don't cause lag.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Sat Dec 01, 2018 18:18

lightseer wrote:Furnaces work offline without causing lag. Why must the generators cause lag? Why must there be lag when machines don't go anywhere or do much at all? I don't understand how they work, but I know that furnaces don't cause lag.



Generator isnt reason of lag, reason - distributors with a lot of connections.

If we have restrictions for fuel (generators), we can reduce distributor abuse and in result less lags
______________

After last server update chunks loading better when on the server 30 players, imho

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bfg » Sat Dec 01, 2018 21:33

tl tr: yes reduce distributors, allow stacking of generators / stock. that was fun.

I've never been happy with how growing on minetest and the machines work. They should always work ever 5 seconds, and machines not needing so many distributors to hit batters 100s times a second. It should A) calculate based on the power in the battery, not how many hits, and B) calculate on time between last activation (static areas) so if its been static for 1 week, it gets a huge generation of 1 week power, or 1 week growth on the farm. Then if a farm gets a visit once a week it will still have grown instead of having a player hang around all day waiting. Hence my stuff is near spawn to stay active. The machines should be fixed. Machines should overheat and cause the distributors to overheat if hit more than once every 5 seconds. And the amount of power (rods, stacked up diamond / mese) wont cause lag. So 99999 rods, diamond, mese will create 99 diamonds every 10 minutes. but only if hit every 5 seconds. instead of 100/second. Then if the area goes static, it will perform a surge of 10 minutes in 1 second (still not lagging) when someone enters that area. Hope I made some sense there.. Other than that. machines are a bit pointless now they are less powerful than just mining. Might as well remove them, or at least remove the cooking aspect, and people wont use them. Then we just go mining again for ore.

Also, dig/put farming seeds doesnt work either, so can not use machines for farming. The seeds end up at the top of the node and don't grow.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bfg » Sat Dec 01, 2018 21:37

Any while I'm on here. ADMIN can you please make it that a player must be inside PvP to kill another player inside PvP.. So annoying people standing along the side killing into PvP areas and can not die themselves.

Edit: just read SaKeL about player needing to be online. I guess thats the end of machines. Might as well use a clockgen instead of 499 (changed to 99) 5 seconds ticks.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:04

ADMIN can you please make it that a player must be inside PvP to kill another player inside PvP.. So annoying people standing along the side killing into PvP areas and can not die themselves.


Not sure if i understand correctly, the PvP arena is a square with only 2 entrances which lead to a small room before you enter the arena, with another doors in them, so unless you are standing very close to the entrance of those rooms - almost on the stairs, i cannot imagine how someone could kill you from outside. Can you give me more details on how this works?

Might as well use a clockgen instead of 499 (changed to 99) 5 seconds ticks.

Yes all numbers has changed to 99, since i don't have time to rewrite the whole mod and fix all the bugs (number checking, nan, infinite) which are crashing the server. This was a quick fix since voxel manip reading from map with huge distances (more than worlds borders) will just crash the server with ugly error.

Also, dig/put farming seeds doesnt work either, so can not use machines for farming. The seeds end up at the top of the node and don't grow.

You are the first one who is pointing this out. Since i know about it now, it will be fixed after next restart.

machines are a bit pointless now they are less powerful than just mining. Might as well remove them, or at least remove the cooking aspect, and people wont use them. Then we just go mining again for ore.

From my experience spending the same time mining or waiting for the machines was always pretty much equal...with mining it's more fun and you can find P&J/Rainbow Cats/Mese blocks/lava lakes - make obsidian while machines are pretty boring, but that's just my perspective on using machines instead of mining.

On the other note, machines were not added for the reason to replace mining/farming, getting unlimited resources, making dupes... the game should always keep the survival aspect where you have to do manual work and survive. I seems like lot of players are using the machines for all the wrong reasons. Instead of having huge machines with 9999 distributors hitting ABM's and manipulating the map or inventories 16 times per 1 distributor per 5 seconds, you could have simple machines for simple farming, tree cutting, digging small holes, building base structures for your bases, automating lights, automating doors/hidden doors, making traps... there is so much more use for the machines than just cooking diamonds and trying to create machines with infinite outcome for no effort.

I am slowly revising the whole basic_machines code and will do some improvements in the future, but it will be slow due to the large amount of code.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:06

UPDATE
* fixed farming / reverse dig / placing seed with mover
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by samec » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:16

SaKeL wrote:UPDATE
* generators will not work anymore when player is not online

This is not good idea, because I build my coffee machine and color dyes machine not only for my own use, but for other players. It is mostly the same as let vending machines work only when their owner is online.

And restrictions to the power generator don't necessary reduce ammount of distributors. I have a big machine, that works without any power. Just for fun, just to impress other players. And it does. (Matrix tower at 268, 0, 425)

In my opinion the worst laging is caused by spreading of water. Maybe a new flood is somewhere on the server.

There was no significant lagging last week, so something must have been changed. What about new water creatures?
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:32

In my opinion the worst laging is caused by spreading of water. Maybe a new flood is somewhere on the server.


There are no reports yet, but i agree that huge water spread could cause lag.

There was no significant lagging last week, so something must have been changed. What about new water creatures?


I forgot about those, added those just for testing, will disable them.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bfg » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:48

SaKeL wrote:
the PvP arena is a square with only 2 entrances which lead to a small room before you enter the arena, with another doors in them, so unless you are standing very close to the entrance of those rooms - almost on the stairs, i cannot imagine how someone could kill you from outside. Can you give me more details on how this works?


SakeL, i mean on the new red PvP enabled protector blocks. Also, if I find someone in a mine. I just drop a protector quickly and attack them. They are unable to fight back :). But also the same happens in the PvP area. They stand on the stairs and kill people as they appear.

So I guess we shouldn't be able to kill without being killed by the other players. While standing on my own land I could easy kill and prevent the player coming back for their bones each time.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 00:59

FYI: as we have discussed already numerous time on this forum, i can share with you the data from profiler (see below), as you can see the basic machines are using a fraction of the processing power - no lag, therefore i have enabled the generators again and will measure again tomorrow.

I remember sofar (or paramat ?) pointing once something about ABM's are not represented in profiler in the right way (or something like that) and showed me another way how to measure them - have to find that again. This is because generator and basic machines in general are using ABM which might cause lag in large numbers.

the most processing power are caused by mobs (what a surprise) which was double than its now in January 2018 - the same people are complaining about lag before and after any performance improvements, also i dont want to have a server without any (challenging) mobs

Code: Select all
  flowers:             |         0 |    263303 |       222 |   0.0 |  91.5 |   0.4
 bones:               |         0 |      5363 |         1 |   0.0 |  43.7 |   0.0
 spawners_ores:       |         0 |     47138 |        65 |   0.0 |  89.2 |   1.0
 unified_inventory:   |         1 |    299926 |       506 |   0.0 |  97.5 |   1.9
 easyvend:            |         0 |    738188 |      3799 |   0.0 |  99.5 |   1.9
 worldedit_commands:  |         0 |     11624 |         2 |   0.0 |  64.7 |   0.0
 wieldview:           |         0 |     50953 |        14 |   0.0 |  66.0 |   0.1
 afkkick:             |         1 |     53327 |       146 |   0.0 |  92.4 |   2.2
 boats:               |         0 |       396 |         1 |   0.0 |   3.8 |   0.0
 chat3:               |         0 |     51495 |        40 |   0.0 |  92.4 |   0.5
 mobs_animal:         |        14 |    164014 |      1244 |   0.0 |  94.0 |  10.1
 mapfix:              |         0 |     43086 |         0 |   0.0 |  68.7 |   0.0
 sethome:             |         0 |       418 |         0 |   0.0 |  14.0 |   0.0
 spawners_env:        |         0 |     31700 |        36 |   0.0 |  76.5 |   0.6
 killme:              |         0 |      6108 |         0 |   0.0 |  37.5 |   0.0
 pvp_block:           |         0 |      5533 |         1 |   0.0 |  30.1 |   0.0
 pbj_pup:             |         0 |        92 |         0 |   0.0 |   3.4 |   0.0
 mob_horse:           |         0 |     40802 |       162 |   0.0 |  87.8 |   1.5
 telemosaic:          |         0 |       856 |         0 |   0.0 |  18.5 |   0.0
 protector:           |         0 |     30597 |        57 |   0.0 |  86.6 |   0.6
 *profiler*:          |         3 |     12224 |       102 |   0.0 |  92.2 |   1.7
 areas:               |         1 |     55417 |       242 |   0.0 |  91.0 |   3.7
 hudbars:             |         1 |     25389 |        23 |   0.0 |  22.7 |   0.1
 junk_removal:        |         0 |     61626 |        89 |   0.0 |  43.3 |   0.2
 x_marketplace:       |         0 |      2133 |         0 |   0.0 |  26.2 |   0.0
 hbhunger:            |         1 |     45732 |       183 |   0.0 |  91.7 |   2.1
 hbarmor:             |         0 |     38360 |        21 |   0.0 |  22.9 |   0.1
 mobs:                |         0 |       464 |         0 |   0.0 |   8.1 |   0.0
 mobs_npc:            |         0 |    350665 |      4426 |   0.0 |  94.0 |  26.0
 creative:            |         0 |       318 |         0 |   0.0 |   1.9 |   0.0
 xpanes:              |         0 |     11918 |         5 |   0.0 |  72.4 |   0.1
 no_guests:           |         0 |       201 |         0 |   0.0 |  17.5 |   0.0
 carts:               |         4 |     35035 |        54 |   0.0 |  88.3 |   0.8
 mobs_monster:        |        18 |    191813 |      3504 |   0.1 |  96.9 |  26.6
 spawners_mobs:       |         0 |     45427 |       575 |   0.0 |  93.9 |   4.9
 give_initial_stuff:  |         0 |       524 |         0 |   0.0 |   0.3 |   0.0
 beds:                |         0 |      5613 |         0 |   0.0 |  45.9 |   0.0
 farming:             |         0 |    225024 |       136 |   0.0 |  96.1 |   0.3
 xban2:               |         0 |     17494 |       135 |   0.0 |  99.3 |   0.9
 3d_armor:            |         1 |     35128 |         8 |   0.0 |  84.3 |   0.1
 xdecor:              |         0 |     27137 |        23 |   0.0 |  29.3 |   0.1
 anticheat:           |         0 |     52075 |         7 |   0.0 |  58.0 |   0.1
 obsidianmese:        |         0 |     19223 |         1 |   0.0 |  22.2 |   0.0
 fire:                |         0 |     47295 |       239 |   0.0 |  85.8 |   1.6
 x_default:           |         1 |     39924 |       157 |   0.0 |  87.2 |   2.1
 basic_machines:      |         0 |    385770 |       516 |   0.0 |  98.9 |   0.9
 throwing:            |         0 |      6971 |         3 |   0.0 |  23.7 |   0.0
 simple_skins:        |         0 |    124587 |        92 |   0.0 |  96.3 |   1.0
 player_api:          |         1 |     45149 |       157 |   0.0 |  91.3 |   2.3
 sfinv:               |         0 |        96 |         0 |   0.0 |   1.9 |   0.0
 default:             |         1 |     88774 |       305 |   0.0 |  89.8 |   3.4
 total:               |        25 |    944120 |     17297 | 100.0 | 100.0 | 100.0


interesting that mobs_npc are using the same resources as mobs_monster, while there are many monsters but just 1 NPC mob (snow golem), maybe someone is farming snow golems in hundreds?
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 01:28

SakeL, i mean on the new red PvP enabled protector blocks. Also, if I find someone in a mine. I just drop a protector quickly and attack them. They are unable to fight back :). But also the same happens in the PvP area. They stand on the stairs and kill people as they appear.

So I guess we shouldn't be able to kill without being killed by the other players. While standing on my own land I could easy kill and prevent the player coming back for their bones each time.


ok i get you now, so there are multiple things you are pointing out:

1. yellow protector
current situation: only land owner can kill players in his own protected area - if you are no owner you cannot kill
abuse: placing protector e.g. in mine and kill players while they are unable to fight back
new situation: not even owner should be able to kill players in his own protected areas - since nobody else can

2. red protector
current situation: player can be killed inside this protected area, but hitter can kill player also from outside this area while player is unable to kill hitter - if hitter is in yellow protected area
abuse: players can kill other players in red pvp protection while they are safe in yellow protected areas
new situation: hitter and player should be both in red pvp protected area in order to create damage to each other

3. pvp arena
-- same as nr. 2
i think this is not a huge deal since you can easily walk out to or from the entrance room, also many players just go to spectator area and dig down through the glass floor
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 02:50

working on killing Balrog, he'll suddenly disappear, especially if he walks into a lag void. Even if I walk all over the arena and eliminate all of the lag voids, he's completely gone and doesn't reappear until his next spawn cycle.


This is a long standing issue which i wasnt able to figure out yet.
Last edited by SaKeL on Sun Dec 02, 2018 02:53, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Map Lag

by Sheriff » Sun Dec 02, 2018 02:52

Was just seeing some pretty bad map lag, with 32 users and a max_lag value of 0.684082.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Sun Dec 02, 2018 09:14

samec wrote:
SaKeL wrote:UPDATE
* generators will not work anymore when player is not online

This is not good idea, because I build my coffee machine and color dyes machine not only for my own use, but for other players.



Firstly free stuff can crash any game, figuratively.

Secondly you can use ready fuel, an example power rods for your farm, not need generator for each machine.

__________________

Visited your machine. Impressive, huge, but not laggy. Also similar machines we dont using 'non stop' like works diamond/mese/gold machines.
Last edited by bosapara on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:04, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [Server] Survival X

by bosapara » Sun Dec 02, 2018 09:19

SaKeL wrote:
Code: Select all
  flowers:             |         0 |    263303 |       222 |   0.0 |  91.5 |   0.4
 bones:               |         0 |      5363 |         1 |   0.0 |  43.7 |   0.0
 spawners_ores:       |         0 |     47138 |        65 |   0.0 |  89.2 |   1.0
 unified_inventory:   |         1 |    299926 |       506 |   0.0 |  97.5 |   1.9
 easyvend:            |         0 |    738188 |      3799 |   0.0 |  99.5 |   1.9
 worldedit_commands:  |         0 |     11624 |         2 |   0.0 |  64.7 |   0.0
 wieldview:           |         0 |     50953 |        14 |   0.0 |  66.0 |   0.1
 afkkick:             |         1 |     53327 |       146 |   0.0 |  92.4 |   2.2
 boats:               |         0 |       396 |         1 |   0.0 |   3.8 |   0.0
 chat3:               |         0 |     51495 |        40 |   0.0 |  92.4 |   0.5
 mobs_animal:         |        14 |    164014 |      1244 |   0.0 |  94.0 |  10.1
 mapfix:              |         0 |     43086 |         0 |   0.0 |  68.7 |   0.0
 sethome:             |         0 |       418 |         0 |   0.0 |  14.0 |   0.0
 spawners_env:        |         0 |     31700 |        36 |   0.0 |  76.5 |   0.6
 killme:              |         0 |      6108 |         0 |   0.0 |  37.5 |   0.0
 pvp_block:           |         0 |      5533 |         1 |   0.0 |  30.1 |   0.0
 pbj_pup:             |         0 |        92 |         0 |   0.0 |   3.4 |   0.0
 mob_horse:           |         0 |     40802 |       162 |   0.0 |  87.8 |   1.5
 telemosaic:          |         0 |       856 |         0 |   0.0 |  18.5 |   0.0
 protector:           |         0 |     30597 |        57 |   0.0 |  86.6 |   0.6
 *profiler*:          |         3 |     12224 |       102 |   0.0 |  92.2 |   1.7
 areas:               |         1 |     55417 |       242 |   0.0 |  91.0 |   3.7
 hudbars:             |         1 |     25389 |        23 |   0.0 |  22.7 |   0.1
 junk_removal:        |         0 |     61626 |        89 |   0.0 |  43.3 |   0.2
 x_marketplace:       |         0 |      2133 |         0 |   0.0 |  26.2 |   0.0
 hbhunger:            |         1 |     45732 |       183 |   0.0 |  91.7 |   2.1
 hbarmor:             |         0 |     38360 |        21 |   0.0 |  22.9 |   0.1
 mobs:                |         0 |       464 |         0 |   0.0 |   8.1 |   0.0
 mobs_npc:            |         0 |    350665 |      4426 |   0.0 |  94.0 |  26.0
 creative:            |         0 |       318 |         0 |   0.0 |   1.9 |   0.0
 xpanes:              |         0 |     11918 |         5 |   0.0 |  72.4 |   0.1
 no_guests:           |         0 |       201 |         0 |   0.0 |  17.5 |   0.0
 carts:               |         4 |     35035 |        54 |   0.0 |  88.3 |   0.8
 mobs_monster:        |        18 |    191813 |      3504 |   0.1 |  96.9 |  26.6
 spawners_mobs:       |         0 |     45427 |       575 |   0.0 |  93.9 |   4.9
 give_initial_stuff:  |         0 |       524 |         0 |   0.0 |   0.3 |   0.0
 beds:                |         0 |      5613 |         0 |   0.0 |  45.9 |   0.0
 farming:             |         0 |    225024 |       136 |   0.0 |  96.1 |   0.3
 xban2:               |         0 |     17494 |       135 |   0.0 |  99.3 |   0.9
 3d_armor:            |         1 |     35128 |         8 |   0.0 |  84.3 |   0.1
 xdecor:              |         0 |     27137 |        23 |   0.0 |  29.3 |   0.1
 anticheat:           |         0 |     52075 |         7 |   0.0 |  58.0 |   0.1
 obsidianmese:        |         0 |     19223 |         1 |   0.0 |  22.2 |   0.0
 fire:                |         0 |     47295 |       239 |   0.0 |  85.8 |   1.6
 x_default:           |         1 |     39924 |       157 |   0.0 |  87.2 |   2.1
 basic_machines:      |         0 |    385770 |       516 |   0.0 |  98.9 |   0.9
 throwing:            |         0 |      6971 |         3 |   0.0 |  23.7 |   0.0
 simple_skins:        |         0 |    124587 |        92 |   0.0 |  96.3 |   1.0
 player_api:          |         1 |     45149 |       157 |   0.0 |  91.3 |   2.3
 sfinv:               |         0 |        96 |         0 |   0.0 |   1.9 |   0.0
 default:             |         1 |     88774 |       305 |   0.0 |  89.8 |   3.4
 total:               |        25 |    944120 |     17297 | 100.0 | 100.0 | 100.0


Profiler can't show all laggy mods. Some mods can be laggy but profiler can't show it. So in result we can only 'turn on' and 'turn off' mods and look on the delay.
 

samec
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by samec » Sun Dec 02, 2018 13:22

bosapara wrote:
samec wrote:
SaKeL wrote:UPDATE
* generators will not work anymore when player is not online

This is not good idea, because I build my coffee machine and color dyes machine not only for my own use, but for other players.



Firstly free stuff can crash any game, figuratively.

Secondly you can use ready fuel, an example power rods for your farm, not need generator for each machine.

It is not for free. Especially the coffee machine, since there is no recipe for water bucket. So I had to solve it different way. (can see it at 257,0,425)
I would like to make my machines running independently from me. There are some teleport stations around the town made by SUSLIK for everyone primarily new players to easily reach new areas for build their houses. But since SUSLIK stops play on the Survival X server after ADMIN inappropriate banned him, the teleport stations stop work because batteries run out of energy and nobody can refill them. Admin or Nico probably can, but are too busy to do it.
Yes, I can use ready fuel instead of the power generator, but will need to bother players with ask for a free power donation or add deposit machines for power and increase a price for already too expensive coffee or other stuff. And my machines will be even more complicated.

Main problem is not in machines, but in very rare occurrence of mese diamonds and gold ores. If you make a diamond pickaxe, it will break sooner than you collect diamond for new one. So making a diamond pickaxe is just wasting of a diamonds. Also it is nearly impossible to make diamond armor without diamond producing machines. When I start to play, I thought that players with lot of diamonds, gold or mese are cheaters or admin privileged. And even before I find out that machines can produce such materials, I collect mese, gold and diamonds more easily from shops. So instead of mining I was searching and comparing buy/sell prices in shops for different things. And because I don't like idea of gold producing machines and many players already has it, I decided not to make my own one too, but instead I decided to make machines for different things.
 

Nico2002Nico
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Nico2002Nico » Sun Dec 02, 2018 14:22

I refiled them but I dont have anymore privs I cant do it again
 

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bosapara
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Nico2002Nico
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by Nico2002Nico » Sun Dec 02, 2018 14:27

bosapara wrote:Invert placing with mover works incorrect

Image



Place stuff with mover is Buggy i know try it 1 block above it
 

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SaKeL
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 14:59

bosapara wrote:Invert placing with mover works incorrect

Image

Im not sure what i am looking at here, but i spent again hours of my day yesterday to just make the MTGame default seed placement working. The whole machines are working as they are for some reason which nobody knows except rnd who is not around anymore and i dont have time to refactor the while machines code. Feel free to contribute with PR to my basic machines repository if you want to fix some bugs in basic machines.

..also it can be misconfiguration of mover, are you using reverse dig with non-zero reverse value ?
Last edited by SaKeL on Sun Dec 02, 2018 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
 

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SaKeL
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Re: [Server] Survival X

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 15:34

But since SUSLIK stops play on the Survival X server after ADMIN inappropriate banned him


wasn't that the player who flooded the spawns 3 times with massive area around the spawn plus placed 99 stacks of mine carts around the spawn? i think the ban was more then appropriate.

..also i think he was unbanned already after some time
 

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SaKeL
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Re: Map Lag

by SaKeL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 15:45

Sheriff wrote:Was just seeing some pretty bad map lag, with 32 users and a max_lag value of 0.684082.

that seems like the lag is not on the server but on the client
 

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