[Server] HOMETOWN

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Thu Jun 21, 2018 19:26

random_geek wrote:
Miss Micah wrote:So is this kind of like a puzzle where you have to put the map together?

Yes, sort of like a puzzle, except it's multi-layered and none of it makes any sense. :)


Woah lol
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Kibbie » Thu Jun 21, 2018 19:55

Just a quick note to thank everyone for being so supportive and helping EDad get HOMETOWN up again. It's been quite a week so far, EDad has been working on this issue every hour he hasn't been working or sleeping. He's pretty messed up about players losing their builds, so the positive attitudes have been so appreciated! Since the beginning, EDad has strived to keep the server stable and reliable with almost no down time so invested players can feel comfortable dedicating their time on the server - so this was a blow and we are very sorry for the losses. :(

At the very least, many of our regular players who lost fantastic builds will have the opportunity to build closer to spawn and have prime real estate. HOMETOWN won't be exactly the same, but there are many advantages to this situation and having some fresh map to build with. The HOMETOWN community/family we have is what really makes the server, so we'll just keep moving forward together. :)
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:08

I’m just so happy that you guys haven’t no given up, on the first server I joined the admin gave up, and that was it. I’m so happy that we are going to get this thing running again and that we are gonna build on this server again.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by RWЯ » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:09

I already asked this. What will happen to our items in bags and inventory, i see that our chests that are not saved we wont get them back. Are we available to get items if we have screenshot of them? Also what about our home sets?
Also thx ExeterDad for putting his free time in trying to get map back.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by random_geek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:11

I do still feel bad that some will get their buildings back, while others will not. And unfortunately, many buildings on the "new Hometown" will be half standing. A lot of rebuilding will have to be done.
As far as more land around spawn to build on, that depends on how much we get back from local map saves.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:14

Wait does anyone have that hall saved that GD made?! The one with the original staff statues? And twist 3d’s castle? Which is now my castle.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:23

RWЯ wrote:I already asked this. What will happen to our items in bags and inventory, i see that our chests that are not saved we wont get them back. Are we available to get items if we have screenshot of them? Also what about our home sets?
Also thx ExeterDad for putting his free time in trying to get map back.

Sorry for not reponding... I have been meaning to.
Only the map was on that database. (hah.... like it's not a big deal)
All player data, inventories, and such are stored other ways. Some in flat files, some in sqlite3 databases.
No worries about that kind of stuff :)

Edit: I lied. Our forums and webpages were on the lost database.
Last edited by ExeterDad on Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:24, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by random_geek » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:24

RWЯ wrote:I already asked this. What will happen to our items in bags and inventory, i see that our chests that are not saved we wont get them back. Are we available to get items if we have screenshot of them? Also what about our home sets?
Also thx ExeterDad for putting his free time in trying to get map back.


Chest contents are stored within the block data. Therefore, if someone's local mapsave includes your chests, their contents will be recovered. Home sets, bags, and inventories are probably stored in a different database, but I don't really know.

EDIT: Yep, EDad already answered before I noticed. :D
Last edited by random_geek on Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:24

Kibbie wrote:At the very least, many of our regular players who lost fantastic builds will have the opportunity to build closer to spawn and have prime real estate. HOMETOWN won't be exactly the same, but there are many advantages to this situation and having some fresh map to build with. The HOMETOWN community/family we have is what really makes the server, so we'll just keep moving forward together. :)

I'm still hoping to be able to recover most of the map with the help of the incomplete/"corrupted" backup combined with the logs. It would be great if ExeterDad could let me know how far back the logs go so that I can properly assess the feasibility of this (in the meantime, I'm working on the code to perform the recovery and so far it looks like it should be possible in theory).

Starting over (or partially starting over) seems too drastic to me. It is the builds on the server that make it what it is. Creating a "new" HOMETOWN will create a very different server altogether. Until proven otherwise, I still maintain that it is possible to piece the incomplete (without position columns) backup back together.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by darkturretyt » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:41

If my base has become leveled I will assure you it will be resurrected much larger and deadlier. Also a new airship will be made
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by lprchaum_ » Thu Jun 21, 2018 20:52

I'm open to all possibilities: a reset or a partial restoration. My biggest desire is to get back and play on the server. A big thank you to all the admins and moderators for making this the best server. And a special hello to ExeterDad for taking the time to sort his out.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by twoelk » Thu Jun 21, 2018 22:39

@lprchaum_
hm, wishing for your buildings to last as many years as there are stars, as stated by your signiture, might be a shorter time in minetest than you thought. ever looked at the default night sky in minetest? not that many stars really and days are short ingame
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Thu Jun 21, 2018 22:47

I'm glad the player files won't be lost, that would have been a really troubling thing to deal with... not to mention I had my nyan saved in a home and didn't save the coords anywhere else, derp (if that even got saved lol).

micheal65536 wrote:It is the builds on the server that make it what it is. Creating a "new" HOMETOWN will create a very different server altogether.


I disagree. It is (and always will be) the people that make a place (whether that's RL or a MT server), without such an amazing community the builds wouldn't be there for one, and they would be totally useless and underappreciated. Try giving my parents the 85gb HOMETOWN map file with all those awesome builds and see what they do with it (hint: it starts with "delete")

As for using the logs to restore the map, I'm not against it, but I'm not sure I'm for it either... I almost don't want it to happen because I'm actually partially excited for the land opportunities this opens up, not to mention the server will be much cleaner by the end of it. And either way, the map was getting huge - it was going to get too big to host, this reset will extend the life of the server. What would be awesome was if this program made a separate map file, from which you could selectively restore certain areas, which would be the best of both worlds imo (pun not intended).

Miss Micah wrote:Wait does anyone have that hall saved that GD made?!


I know I've been there... I don't have the coords so I don't know if I had mapsave on at the time.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Lone_Wolf » Fri Jun 22, 2018 02:07

I have some coords in my savepos CSM. I am currently at work though xD
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 06:42

ChimneySwift wrote:As for using the logs to restore the map, I'm not against it, but I'm not sure I'm for it either... I almost don't want it to happen because I'm actually partially excited for the land opportunities this opens up, not to mention the server will be much cleaner by the end of it.
I can agree, the server was due for a tidy-up. It would be great if someone could go around the map and mark off which areas are full of noob litter, and those areas can then be discarded. But this can just as easily be done as a separate job (which, by the way, I would gladly help out with as well).
ChimneySwift wrote:And either way, the map was getting huge - it was going to get too big to host, this reset will extend the life of the server. What would be awesome was if this program made a separate map file, from which you could selectively restore certain areas, which would be the best of both worlds imo (pun not intended).
I suspect that a large portion of the map was either unmodified or very-slightly-modified terrain which can be discarded. As part of the restoration process that I have developed, most unmodified terrain will be discarded automatically. If desired, it wouldn't be that hard to follow up with an additional search for areas to discard.

The restoration process will generate a new map file. There is no requirement to use this file in its entirety. The only limitation is the size of the file which will make it difficult to work with. However, since the restored file will not be perfect, I imagine it would be most useful to use it as a starting point for a more selective restoration. I'd be curious to know what others think but personally I think it would be simpler to discard most of the underground blocks and I expect my algorithm to struggle with them anyway.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by shacharr » Fri Jun 22, 2018 07:04

micheal65536 wrote:The restoration process will generate a new map file. There is no requirement to use this file in its entirety. The only limitation is the size of the file which will make it difficult to work with. However, since the restored file will not be perfect, I imagine it would be most useful to use it as a starting point for a more selective restoration. I'd be curious to know what others think but personally I think it would be simpler to discard most of the underground blocks and I expect my algorithm to struggle with them anyway.


Please keep the underground blocks. Especially, there is DB's secret home at -3500, and another awesome build (Japanese style, by bob8881) at approximately -5000 (both near the 0,0 coordinates for planner coordinates). If you want to see the builds, my map file contains them. Also, there is bunch of stuff just under spawn until the -100 depth give or take.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 08:09

shacharr wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:The restoration process will generate a new map file. There is no requirement to use this file in its entirety. The only limitation is the size of the file which will make it difficult to work with. However, since the restored file will not be perfect, I imagine it would be most useful to use it as a starting point for a more selective restoration. I'd be curious to know what others think but personally I think it would be simpler to discard most of the underground blocks and I expect my algorithm to struggle with them anyway.


Please keep the underground blocks. Especially, there is DB's secret home at -3500, and another awesome build (Japanese style, by bob8881) at approximately -5000 (both near the 0,0 coordinates for planner coordinates). If you want to see the builds, my map file contains them. Also, there is bunch of stuff just under spawn until the -100 depth give or take.

OK, let me try to explain in more detail.

My restoration process cannot distinguish between "above-ground" and "underground" blocks. As far as it can tell, blocks are just blocks. However, because of the way that underground blocks "look", I expect that it will be harder for the restoration process to produce successful results on underground blocks (although I'd love to be proven wrong...).

If I do attempt to use this process, there are three options:
  1. I can decide beforehand not to attempt to restore underground blocks. This will make the process a lot faster and avoid wasting time if the underground blocks turn out to be unusable anyway.
  2. I can choose to restore all underground blocks and hope for the best. After the restoration is complete, I can assess the results and decide whether or not the underground blocks are satisfactory enough to be worth keeping.
  3. I can obtain a list beforehand of the locations of known underground builds and include those areas in the restoration process while ignoring the rest of the underground blocks, speeding up the process as with the first option but giving players the opportunity to keep their underground builds. I expect that the process will be as successful on underground builds as it is on above-ground builds (but not caves, mines, etc.).

Note also that the process itself doesn't know exactly how successful it was on each block, so it won't be able to decide for itself which underground blocks are worth keeping.

I should mention however that I see two good reasons to discard most of the underground blocks anyway (I'm not referring to undergound builds here, but stuff like caves and mines). The first is that they take up a lot of space on the server for little value (I'd guess that at least 25% and maybe as much as 50% of the map is underground) and the second is that regenerating them again would make it easier to find more resources (I don't regularly mine so I don't know what the situation is but I'd expect that the popular mining areas are probably quite depleted). In any case, I can't make any promises that the restoration process will produce anything sensible from the underground blocks anyway (except for underground builds which, if everything goes according to plan, should be as successful as above-ground builds).
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miniminaut » Fri Jun 22, 2018 08:17

Ugh - sounds like Ragnaroek took place at Hometown...glad to know that life always will survive to begin a better world.

Sorry I didn´t knew about mapsaves and can´t help in this time of trouble.

Thank you so much Kibbie & ExeterDad for all your work and efforts now and then. You are the good ones and its known - someday you will be rewarded :)

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Autumn_Days » Fri Jun 22, 2018 13:23

well im sorry to ask but: how /where can i see if i got any backups lol
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by RWЯ » Fri Jun 22, 2018 13:34

Autumn_Days wrote:well im sorry to ask but: how /where can i see if i got any backups lol


For those who don't know:
The bulk of HOMETOWN'S map can not be recovered. This means unless we can cobble together local map saves that I have, and what players contribute.... everyone's work is lost.

This will likely mean an extended down time for the server while map saves are merged.

---------------------------
What you can do to help:
If your client has local mapsave enabled, you will be able to contribute your map backup to the server.
1. Go to your Minetest install folder (this will likely be located at ~/.minetest for Linux users)
2. Go to the server_hometownserver.com_30000 folder in theworlds directory (if this doesn't exist, there's nothing you can do to help except provide moral support ;)
3. Add the contents of this folder to a .zip file and upload it to https://nofile.io/
4. PM ExeterDad a link to the file along with information about approximately when you were on the server last, via the Minetest forums: ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=10544

If you want to enable local map saving, set enable_local_map_saving = true in your minetest.conf file (Note: This may affect performance). From now on, everywhere you go will be saved locally.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Fri Jun 22, 2018 13:41

Autumn_Days wrote:well im sorry to ask but: how /where can i see if i got any backups lol

If you or no one else has turned backups on (deep in your advanced settings. or in your minetest.conf), it's likely you won't have a backup. It's not turned on by default as it will knock the crap out of the average or low end device.
But just in case. If you have local backups enabled. You can find it in the same place as every world you create in Singleplayer. It's hard to know how to tell you where it's at, as every OS (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android... etc) stores them in different places. Even in custom places depending how your Minetest is installed.
But if you find a directory called "worlds", look in it. Inside you will find a folder named after all the worlds you have created. If you are doing a local backup.... it is handled just like a world, but it only has a sqlite database inside. The folder for the world will be the name of the server you are visiting and the port number. The database you are looking for is called "map.sqlite".

Other news:
I have a long winded draft of a "update" post started. I had to give up on it last night as I kept falling asleep. But to summarize... the plan to merge all your donated backups is going without a hitch.
But we need more data! Every scrap helps. No two of them are alike. Yours might have a missing piece. Keep em coming if you can :)

Edit: I was Ninja'd! lol
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 15:06

ExeterDad wrote:But to summarize... the plan to merge all your donated backups is going without a hitch.
But we need more data! Every scrap helps. No two of them are alike. Yours might have a missing piece. Keep em coming if you can :)

I will send mine soon.

I would also really appreciate it if you could let me know how far back the logs go as I am still hoping to be able to use this method to recover buildings that aren't saved anywhere else. Things are looking good regarding the success rate of this approach, and while the results will be nowhere near perfect enough to use for the entire map (especially in areas with particular types of terrain that are too complicated to explain here) I imagine there will be a lot of salvageable stuff. This approach could even be used in conjunction with the donated backups in order to get a more up-to-date version of builds that have been subsequently modified (and especially the contents of chests that have changed).

EDIT: Also forgot to ask, if the overhead map (the one that used to appear on the website, showing all the ground-level stuff from above) still exists anywhere this would be useful for (visually) finding which areas have builds to recover.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Fri Jun 22, 2018 16:21

micheal65536 wrote:<-- Snip -->

I'm not sure it's really worth all the effort it would take for results that would certainly take a human eye to confirm success? That human would have to be the builder as there's no way anyone could be certain the results came out correctly? I have every daily log since day one. We opened Feb. 18, 2017. In fact I have all the logs during the time the server was being set up before opening. If dig a little bit, I'll even be able to produce the logs from first start up when the server was born on our Raspberry Pi on my LAN. The logs from Feb 18th to current are over 20 gigs uncompressed. Scraping data from them start to finish scanning for strings to use in various databases has taken hours whether it's luajit, lua, or bash. That's on the server. The server is the beefiest machine I have access to by far. It's limited to 32Gigs ram and 8 cores... or threads? I think 4 cores 8 threads actually. With the OS, Minetest, and the folder that contains whatever data makes us HOMETOWN we have just over 200GIG's free storage. This does not include the map database. So as you can see we don't have a lot of wiggle room working with a jacked up 85 GIG database + 20 GIG's of logs + whatever will hold temp files of gathered data + the size of the output. We won't even be able to run a HOMETOWN instance so we can play while all the mad science is going on in the background.
And what's worse... it's likely all this work developing this tool is a one time use only tool. It's unlikely anyone will be able to use it because I don't know who else would save every log from the beginning of time? As it is... moving forward. Those logs are pretty much unreliable since so much from this point on will be "not there" on the map. The whole reason I got us into this mess is space. The map was growing at a alarming rate. It had gotten to the point that I had to delete all temporary system files and pull every possible bit of backups, logs, images, experiments off of the server to free up enough space to VACUUM the map database. That requires free space exactly the size of the database that's being worked on. If there's not enough room, the entire "debloating" will cancel and it just gets more bloated from there. We literally nearly collapsed under our own weight a couple weeks ago.
Anyhow, I got a little sidetracked, back to my point... I needed to upgrade the database to be able to use some features that would make it easier to target map data that could be deleted while the server was offline. A map shrink. Because we were nearly too big to continue on. I needed to ditch all the non-build stuff from merely exploring (only underground) as there was a ton of map data below the surface. Running a query with the psql client on the map database would take as long as 3 seconds for the result. Thats searching for 1 row of data.

So on the bright side. Our map has shrunken. And yes... way more than expected by far. And the cost of recovering data that I can't help but be skeptical about isn't compelling me to believe its worth it?
But... I am however very touched that you are so willing to try. And that means a lot to me. And that's what makes it hard to tell you I don't want to open that can of worms.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Aoi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 16:34

I can't believe this happened on my b-day. After a few days of waiting, and then discovering that the hometown website didn't work, I finally thought to check here. Thanks to everybody who's put in work to restoring the server, especially Edad!
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Fri Jun 22, 2018 16:39

I know it’s kinda weird but I’m excited to see how all of this turns out, I’m excited to start building again, and I’m more than willing to help other players build their stuff again. Thanks everyone for still trying!!!! Also thanks EDad for not throwing in the towel!!!!!!!

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