[Server] HOMETOWN

shacharr
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by shacharr » Post

ExeterDad wrote: But keep in mind. Those underground builds could be wiped out in the same way of a cave generator comes ripping through. But we can't possibly generate the entire underground to prevent this.
Can we figure out the underground parts from the collection of sqlite files you have, and generate an "envelope" around them of say 20-30 blocks? Should be relatively straight forward extension to your automated script. I'm willing to attempt to code it if needed.

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ExeterDad
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

shacharr wrote:
ExeterDad wrote: But keep in mind. Those underground builds could be wiped out in the same way of a cave generator comes ripping through. But we can't possibly generate the entire underground to prevent this.
Can we figure out the underground parts from the collection of sqlite files you have, and generate an "envelope" around them of say 20-30 blocks? Should be relatively straight forward extension to your automated script. I'm willing to attempt to code it if needed.
Ironically... that's exactly what I'm intending to do. I whipped up a additional script that will read all positions of whatever is down below. Then it will pad every one with 3 mapblocks (48 nodes). It will then generate the ground underneath to fit the padding. And then the mapsaves applied onto it. I'm in agreement... I think it will prevent any *gen damage.
I wish I would of thought of this approach for the rest of the map. We'd be playing by now as what we would need to generate would be trivial compared to the entire map. But... I'm too far along now. Not gonna turn back :)

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shacharr
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by shacharr » Post

ExeterDad wrote: Ironically... that's exactly what I'm intending to do. I whipped up a additional script that will read all positions of whatever is down below. Then it will pad every one with 3 mapblocks (48 nodes).
Are we sure this is enough protection from *gens?
Can we do a quick test work a sample cave build? Some of the cave builds are in the giant caverns you get in this depth. How far do the generators go?

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Post

shacharr wrote:
ExeterDad wrote: Ironically... that's exactly what I'm intending to do. I whipped up a additional script that will read all positions of whatever is down below. Then it will pad every one with 3 mapblocks (48 nodes).
Are we sure this is enough protection from *gens?
Can we do a quick test work a sample cave build? Some of the cave builds are in the giant caverns you get in this depth. How far do the generators go?
AFAIK (based on my own experiments/accidents with mapgen when I was testing my map reconstruction tool last week) it only affects the block directly adjacent to the block that needs generating.

Also, remember that Minetest by default generates up to 5 blocks away from the player, and the assumption is that those blocks will no longer be modified anymore by the time the player gets to them and starts building or digging in them. So it may be assumed that, at most, Minetest won't modify a block more than 5 blocks away from the block being generated.

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Post

ExeterDad wrote: I wish I would of thought of this approach for the rest of the map.
Think of it this way, we'll be like the only server with a complete. fully generated map of the surface XD
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by muhdnurhidayat » Post

ChimneySwift wrote:
ExeterDad wrote: I wish I would of thought of this approach for the rest of the map.
Think of it this way, we'll be like the only server with a complete. fully generated map of the surface XD
what if there's huge mountains or floating islands (assuming it's mgv7)? it's not really "surface" at some places... :P
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ExeterDad
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

muhdnurhidayat wrote:
ChimneySwift wrote: Think of it this way, we'll be like the only server with a complete. fully generated map of the surface XD
what if there's huge mountains or floating islands (assuming it's mgv7)? it's not really "surface" at some places... :P
If you have a build on the top of a huge mountain or up high like a skybox, regular mapgen will be triggered. Regular as in terrain. That type of mapgen doesn't seem to extend into mapblocks that are already there. So I believe those builds will be safe. Snow or tree's may get scattered on odd places. But they aren't nearly as destructive as river or cavegens.

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by twoelk » Post

I remember well importing large structures or even parts of other maps into existing maps and after seeing the succesfull import having just a few seconds later cavegen and mudflow start their work of creative destruction.

RealBadAngel once posted pictures of how cavegen worked in the sky by having it place static water instead of air. Take note I said "in the sky". I don't remember wether that bug was ever fixed but generating air nodes in places one wants to import into prior to importing has always been a good idea.

I once posted pictures of how to place my towermine with WorldEdit and in one picture one could see how cavegen had munched away the top of the tower and mudflow had placed an icing of dirt and sand on that which of course attracted some decorative trees on top of my tower. (can't find the pic anymore)

The circles world had a pretty destructive cavegen that would at random intervals repeatedly insist on it's caves even long after the map had been generated. One would return to find ones structures reduced to only those parts that had not been part of some cave, be it in the ground or in the sky.

ExeterDad has started an experiment with a very unpredictable outcome and it may require a lot of patience and even more determination than he anticipated when he started. I hope once he is through, successfull or not, he shares all he has learned for others to use or maybe improve whatever path has turned out to be the best. Things like this have happened before and a nice toolset to fix corrupted worlds or manipulate map-databases for other purposes is something Minetest is really missing.

so similarly even if the tool micheal65536 developed may not be used for this case it may be usefull in some future case.

Indeed, as I have enjoyed the hometown server for many hours, I can only say thanks for all the work ExeterDad and the others involved have put into this server and I can only hope the server community proves worthy of all the effort and time invested in this project.

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Post

twoelk wrote:so similarly even if the tool micheal65536 developed may not be used for this case it may be usefull in some future case.
No, it won't be useful for anything else. Literally all it can do is compare two maps to find the closest-matching block from map B for each map in map A. It will do this as fast as possible taking advantage of as much RAM and CPU power as it can get. It won't help with moving/copying map blocks around or transferring/importing/exporting them from one map to another. It won't help with pre-generating map blocks to prevent map generators from overwriting stuff. While tools to do those things would have been necessary to complete the job, they would've been very easy to write in comparison to the stuff that I was working on so I focussed my initial development work on the main (and most time-consuming/difficult) part of the job and planned to write that stuff later when I was ready for it. Nevertheless it's not something that someone with a bit of shell scripting combined with a command-line client for their preferred database backend couldn't do.

Also, one of the main problems that any map recovery operation of this kind is that the map generation is not completely deterministic. While the positions of trees seems to be constant for the version 7 map generator, the shapes of the trees is not. Depending on the map generator and mods used, other things such as flowers and ores may also not be completely the same from one map to the next even if the same map generator and seed is used (I don't know if the default flowers are constant in version 7, but the positions of both trees and flowers were not constant in version 6). This caused my recovery process to struggle or even fail completely on blocks that mostly featured generated terrain (particularly areas with trees) and very little built stuff and might cause imported map blocks to "match up" badly.

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ExeterDad
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

twoelk wrote:I remember well importing large structures or even parts of other maps into existing maps and after seeing the succesfull import having just a few seconds later cavegen and mudflow start their work of creative destruction.
Yeah I see this all the time. I often make test worlds from HOMETOWN mapsaves for the testing server. I will often switch the mapgen to singlenode for a quick fix to avoid mass destruction. This was witnessed when I logged in to the collection of mapsaves. Many saved areas were much like thin strands or paths as it's all the clients were able to record. These didn't stand a chance :P
twoelk wrote:RealBadAngel once posted pictures of how cavegen worked in the sky by having it place static water instead of air. Take note I said "in the sky". I don't remember wether that bug was ever fixed but generating air nodes in places one wants to import into prior to importing has always been a good idea.
RIP RBA :(
I feel Paramat may of resolved the crazy in air "invisible cavegen" bug. I think it was solved in his quest to fix some of the light bugs that caused shadows.
twoelk wrote:I hope once he is through, successfull or not, he shares all he has learned for others to use or maybe improve whatever path has turned out to be the best. Things like this have happened before and a nice toolset to fix corrupted worlds or manipulate map-databases for other purposes is something Minetest is really missing.
I think the script that generates a fresh blank map will be useful to others. It would likely fill in the blanks of existing worlds without *gen side affects as well. This would be useful for those who want a completed map for a nice minetestmapper rendering. I'll definately tie it all in to a chat command though. Right now it just runs blindly after a delay on startup. The other tools I whipped up might be best available as gist saves (with notes). They are a little to specific to a need and would certainly need adjusted for other cases.
twoelk wrote:Indeed, as I have enjoyed the hometown server for many hours, I can only say thanks for all the work ExeterDad and the others involved have put into this server and I can only hope the server community proves worthy of all the effort and time invested in this project.
These are stressful times for me. Your kind and supportive words really mean a lot to me my friend :)

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Post

Sooo when it reaches 100% we can play on it again?
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

Miss Micah wrote:Sooo when it reaches 100% we can play on it again?
I'm afraid not Miss Micah. I'll still have to run the script to generate around the underground map save stuff. I've no estimate how long that may take as I haven't even done a test run on it yet. But it will have be be much much faster than the script we are currently waiting to finish.
Once the underground script has completed. I will need to apply all the donated map saves. Then unless something unforeseen happens... we can play. :)
I'm guessing the current script will complete in about three hours. But I've no idea how much time tonight I can dedicate to the remainder. I'm on vacation so in theory I've all the time in the world.... but it's complicated as we are terribly busy with home projects instead of fun vacation stuff. We've much to accomplish before the kids get back from summer camp.

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Miss Micah
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Post

ExeterDad wrote:
Miss Micah wrote:Sooo when it reaches 100% we can play on it again?
I'm afraid not Miss Micah. I'll still have to run the script to generate around the underground map save stuff. I've no estimate how long that may take as I haven't even done a test run on it yet. But it will have be be much much faster than the script we are currently waiting to finish.
Once the underground script has completed. I will need to apply all the donated map saves. Then unless something unforeseen happens... we can play. :)
I'm guessing the current script will complete in about three hours. But I've no idea how much time tonight I can dedicate to the remainder. I'm on vacation so in theory I've all the time in the world.... but it's complicated as we are terribly busy with home projects instead of fun vacation stuff. We've much to accomplish before the kids get back from summer camp.

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Oh, :/. Well thanks still working on it XD
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Emra » Post

Thank you for all your hard work, EDad. :)

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by BBmine » Post

ExeterDad wrote:Once the underground script has completed. I will need to apply all the donated map saves.
Yes! Our builds! :D

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Miss Micah » Post

Miss Micah wrote:
ExeterDad wrote:
Miss Micah wrote:Sooo when it reaches 100% we can play on it again?
-snip-

Oh, :/. Well thanks still working on it XD
EDIT: thanks for* XP

EDIT #2: Uhhhh sorry for the double post thingy.... XPPPPP

EDIT #3: I edited that wrong but I don’t feel like fixing it XPPPPPPPP
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

/me notices I can't connect to the server to check the script status.
/me tries everything. Twice
/me sends heated and frantic help ticket to host.
/they Tell me a major cooling malfunction has forced them to shut down a portion of the datacenter.
/me Oh

Looks like I get to put my resume feature to the test. Eventually :/

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by GipNovoRBX » Post

[quote="ExeterDad"]/me notices I can't connect to the server to check the script status.
/me tries everything. Twice
/me sends heated and frantic help ticket to host.
/they Tell me a major cooling malfunction has forced them to shut down a portion of the datacenter.
/me Oh

Looks like I get to put my resume feature to the test. Eventually :/[ so another error? Don't worry E Dad you got this :) No matter what your still one of the best. Also have an amazing summer

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Post

ExeterDad wrote: I think the script that generates a fresh blank map will be useful to others. It would likely fill in the blanks of existing worlds without *gen side affects as well. This would be useful for those who want a completed map for a nice minetestmapper rendering. I'll definately tie it all in to a chat command though. Right now it just runs blindly after a delay on startup. The other tools I whipped up might be best available as gist saves (with notes). They are a little to specific to a need and would certainly need adjusted for other cases.
That would be nice, I would definitely use that for testing mapseeds and biome generation, so you can truly see how common a biome is in a particular world. Not sure how fast my spare computer would be able to handle that though. lol.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by BBmine » Post

ExeterDad wrote:/me notices I can't connect to the server to check the script status.
/me tries everything. Twice
/me sends heated and frantic help ticket to host.
/they Tell me a major cooling malfunction has forced them to shut down a portion of the datacenter.
/me Oh

Looks like I get to put my resume feature to the test. Eventually :/
So that's why the website timed out instead of telling me the page didn't exist.

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Lone_Wolf » Post

ExeterDad wrote:Looks like I get to put my resume feature to the test. Eventually :/
If it doesn't work you can just use that better method you mentioned. So this probably isn't bad at all.
Thanks again for your work on this!

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Post

Uh oh! I think SurvivalX is in the same datacenter as us! We have the same host. And now they are vanished too.

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Post

ExeterDad wrote:Uh oh! I think SurvivalX is in the same datacenter as us! We have the same host. And now they are vanished too.
lol!!
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Lone_Wolf » Post

ExeterDad wrote:Uh oh! I think SurvivalX is in the same datacenter as us! We have the same host. And now they are vanished too.
What's your host? I'll remember to avoid them xD

micheal65536
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Post

Is the HOMETOWN server back up yet (I don't mean the Minetest server that we play on, I mean the actual hardware/VM)? Survival X was up when I checked a few minutes ago.

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