[Server] HOMETOWN

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Sat Aug 18, 2018 08:15

GreenDimond wrote:Me more than a year ago:
Image
Me now:
Image
Boy do things change .-.

(I was sifting through the pages from like page 40.. so much good stuff back there :o )


LOL! Much to the disappointment yeah he's probably not actually disappointed of user2 we don't have IRC yet :P

Although I _might_ have reserved a channel if we decide to do that.. ;)
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 19:52

ChimneySwift wrote:
GreenDimond wrote:Me more than a year ago:
Image
Me now:
Image
Boy do things change .-.

(I was sifting through the pages from like page 40.. so much good stuff back there :o )


LOL! Much to the disappointment yeah he's probably not actually disappointed of user2 we don't have IRC yet :P

Although I _might_ have reserved a channel if we decide to do that.. ;)

I haven't used it but Mumble actually looks like a good option for a chat platform. It has features similar to Discord but it's self-hosted. It's also quite easy to patch Minetest to add positional voice chat in the game.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:11

micheal65536 wrote:I haven't used it but Mumble actually looks like a good option for a chat platform. It has features similar to Discord but it's self-hosted. It's also quite easy to patch Minetest to add positional voice chat in the game.


It would be SOOOOOOO cool to have inbuilt positional voice in Minetest. I'm not sure how that would work in regards to server load... (probably terribly), unless it's pear-to-pear, but it would be pretty cool to be able to join a voice chat within a server... although I bet it'll be a while before that happens (if ever).

Mumble looks like a VOIP only service though (based off my 10 second glance)? Even if it does have chat, I doubt it'd be to the same level as the chat features available with Discord.

I know Discord is the evil with it proprietariness or whatever, but it does a pretty good job.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 15:08

ChimneySwift wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:I haven't used it but Mumble actually looks like a good option for a chat platform. It has features similar to Discord but it's self-hosted. It's also quite easy to patch Minetest to add positional voice chat in the game.


It would be SOOOOOOO cool to have inbuilt positional voice in Minetest. I'm not sure how that would work in regards to server load... (probably terribly), unless it's pear-to-pear, but it would be pretty cool to be able to join a voice chat within a server... although I bet it'll be a while before that happens (if ever).

Mumble looks like a VOIP only service though (based off my 10 second glance)? Even if it does have chat, I doubt it'd be to the same level as the chat features available with Discord.


It definitely allows text-based chat as far as I can tell. Also the positional audio is handled by the Mumble clients and server completely separately from the Minetest server (the Minetest client gives the player's position to the Mumble client, which then passes it on to the Mumble server - yes this is insecure but it's probably adequate given the threat model).

ChimneySwift wrote:I know Discord is the evil with it proprietariness or whatever, but it does a pretty good job.


Which is why people should do everything they can to avoid it instead of just feeding into it. As long as people say "yeah it's proprietary but it's so good that I don't care", proprietary software will always be better.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Mon Aug 20, 2018 23:29

micheal65536 wrote:It definitely allows text-based chat as far as I can tell. Also the positional audio is handled by the Mumble clients and server completely separately from the Minetest server (the Minetest client gives the player's position to the Mumble client, which then passes it on to the Mumble server - yes this is insecure but it's probably adequate given the threat model).


Nice, theoretically that means that a modified Minetest client alone would be required, the clients obviously already know where they are.

micheal65536 wrote:Which is why people should do everything they can to avoid it instead of just feeding into it. As long as people say "yeah it's proprietary but it's so good that I don't care", proprietary software will always be better.


I'm not just gonna be a Donald Trump and say "Wrong." and be done with it, but I disagree, at least to an extent. I'm not a time traveler, so I don't know what the future holds, but I do know that at least at the moment, proprietary software is better* than open source software because it has money. Everyone has to eat, and good software takes time to create, time which developers could spend on open source stuff they get little to no income from, or on proprietary software where they earn a paycheck. Given this, proprietary has a head start. On top of that, it has a lead where the cost to run the software is high, in the case of Discord users won't want to run their own servers, so Discord has to spend millions of dollars on server infrastructure to host fast and reliable text, voice, video and file sharing content delivery networks. You just can't reasonably achieve the same level of service on a completely free or donation based platform. Obviously hosting prices are going down quickly, so hosting something like that might end up way easier and cheaper in the future.

Of course, open source has a head start in other areas, user focus is going to be much better given that the people making it are less concerned about lining their pockets and more concerned about how well it actually works, but at least today, proprietary platforms are relevant because they actually are better than the open source ones. You'd be hard pressed to generate many arguments for IRC against Discord unless low internet usage is your primary objective. And you'll have a hard time convincing everyone that they shouldn't use something that's better just because it's proprietary.

*Obviously there are many exceptions, like Blender, I'm mainly referring to services that require expensive hosting.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Wed Aug 22, 2018 04:46

BTW, the map player list is borked:

Image

Image

It might fix itself at restart, but just in case :)
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:43

ChimneySwift wrote:BTW, the map player list is borked:
It might fix itself at restart, but just in case :)

Yeah, it's intentional for now. I disabled the code that produces the player movements on the map.
I'm still searching for whatever causes the lag. I was hoping polling every user every second might of been the cause. So far it's not. Whatever is causing it can't be found on test servers. So I'm forced to use you guys as "lab rats" and test on the live server. :P
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by BuckarooBanzay » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:37

ExeterDad wrote:
ChimneySwift wrote:BTW, the map player list is borked:
It might fix itself at restart, but just in case :)

Yeah, it's intentional for now. I disabled the code that produces the player movements on the map.
I'm still searching for whatever causes the lag. I was hoping polling every user every second might of been the cause. So far it's not. Whatever is causing it can't be found on test servers. So I'm forced to use you guys as "lab rats" and test on the live server. :P


Maybe my server-stat mod can help you with that: https://git.rudin.io/minetest/pgserverstats

I'm using it to feed my prometheus/grafana dashboard:
Image

It helped me a few times to identify some lag sources (mapgen, woodchopping mod and unified_inv)
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Wed Aug 22, 2018 19:56

BuckarooBanzay wrote:Maybe my server-stat mod can help you with that: https://git.rudin.io/minetest/pgserverstats

I'm using it to feed my prometheus/grafana dashboard:
<--snip-->
It helped me a few times to identify some lag sources (mapgen, woodchopping mod and unified_inv)

At this point, I don't care if your mod helps or not! It's so beautiful!
Thank you! I'll certainly check it out.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Wed Aug 29, 2018 18:48

micheal65536 wrote:Server appears to be hung again.

Just noticed your post and a quick look at the serverlist shows activity. Did it "self fixum?" or is it still hung?
I'm on the go with work, so I can't just log in to check.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 19:31

ExeterDad wrote:
micheal65536 wrote:Server appears to be hung again.

Just noticed your post and a quick look at the serverlist shows activity. Did it "self fixum?" or is it still hung?
I'm on the go with work, so I can't just log in to check.

It is working now, although the last action that I attempted to carry out before leaving did not take effect. (I had tried (and failed) to open a door before I disconnected, and when I came back the door was still closed, even though I'd stayed connected long enough for the "open the door" request to reach the server even if it wasn't processed before I disconnected - yes, it was a locked door and no one else could have closed it again.)
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Wed Aug 29, 2018 22:50

This might not be super helpful, but is there any possibility that it's the Minetest version causing issues?

The only other thing that I'm aware was changed was the database backend, and surely that wouldn't cause the entire server to be laggy...

Not sure how 0.4.17.1 would be worse than 0.4.16, but, it's a thought, probably one you've already had lol.

The other thing I notice is that there's next to no lag when there are little to no players (maybe 5-ish max)
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Thu Aug 30, 2018 06:37

Woah. What happened?

Idk if this is consistent, and there were only a few players, but just now I did another ping test, using the same server responsiveness test as before:

Image
(2 datapoints were removed as extreme outliers - I didn't use the outlier formula or anything. A total of 100 pings were taken at 10 second intervals)

Network-only ping to the server:
Code: Select all
Ping statistics for 192.151.154.34:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 219ms, Maximum = 231ms, Average = 223ms


Holy crap, that's way better, and more consistent too. Was something changed and this isn't just a fluke?
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 15:41

Has anyone else noticed that the server is now saying "Welcome back <player name>! There are currently <player count> players on HOMETOWN." when joining? I could've sworn it wasn't doing that even this morning.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Thu Aug 30, 2018 15:50

Yeah I reworked the /players command when I was looking for ways to optimize various stuff to improve performance. The command produces a small dialog formspec rather then chat. What you saw pops up for a player when returning to the server. It won't show for anyone for the first login of the day.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 16:49

ExeterDad wrote:Yeah I reworked the /players command when I was looking for ways to optimize various stuff to improve performance. The command produces a small dialog formspec rather then chat. What you saw pops up for a player when returning to the server. It won't show for anyone for the first login of the day.

I didn't even know that that command existed. What I don't understand though is why changing the output of the command from a chat message to a formspec causes a message to appear when players return to the server (or why the command is even necessary).
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 16:58

Newly-placed hoppers aren't working. Existing hoppers continue working fine.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Thu Aug 30, 2018 17:43

micheal65536 wrote:What I don't understand though is why changing the output of the command from a chat message to a formspec causes a message to appear when players return to the server

It doesn't. The output (the welcome bit on login) was added to help with debugging. I just simply didn't remove it, got used to it, and kept it.
micheal65536 wrote: (or why the command is even necessary).

It's been there for a very long time and is useful. But only to those who care about stuff like that. You'd be surprised.
About the hoppers... I thought I removed the node defs to keep them from running during the benchmarking/profiling to see if the hidden processing was affecting our performance. Apparently if they still run, I wasn't successful. Good to know as I couldn't see a difference with performance and I "thought" they were disabled. I didn't want to disable the whole mod and leave unknown nodes all around during testing.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 21:50

ExeterDad wrote:About the hoppers... I thought I removed the node defs to keep them from running during the benchmarking/profiling to see if the hidden processing was affecting our performance. Apparently if they still run, I wasn't successful. Good to know as I couldn't see a difference with performance and I "thought" they were disabled. I didn't want to disable the whole mod and leave unknown nodes all around during testing.

Does this mean that hoppers will soon be disabled (even if only temporarily)? Can we at least have them running at a reduced item transfer rate?
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by Lone_Wolf » Fri Sep 07, 2018 21:15

Pacifier had their account reset. Any chance it could be recovered?
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ExeterDad » Sat Sep 08, 2018 00:54

The player databases are backed up every night. The backups are only to restore lost or corrupt databases so I only keep them for a couple weeks or so or I'd be collecting way too many of them. So if it's been longer than 6 months and two weeks.... the answer would be no. Even then... it's a pain as I would need to open all the copies to see if his name was in it, before exporting his data.
 

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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by ChimneySwift » Sat Sep 08, 2018 08:38

Omg it might have been 6 months since he left.

Damn. This year went quick.
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Re: [Server] HOMETOWN

by micheal65536 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 09:12

ExeterDad wrote:Even then... it's a pain as I would need to open all the copies to see if his name was in it, before exporting his data.

grep or some other kind of script appropriate for the format of the data?
 

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