[Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Regarding box 376 (Stairways and Confusion):

First off, if you play using 5.6.1 it's actually possible to get stuck if you fall into the trampoline area that's surrounded by a 2 block high wall. It's a common issue with trampolines.

Second, I'm not looking for the answer, so please no direct spoilers, but I just want to make sure my box isn't malfunctioning.
I've had issues in the past with other boxes where buttons that were meant to do something did not until I reloaded

So, just to make sure to anyone who has solved it:

This isn't the answer, correct?
Spoiler
Image
Gotten by taking the column from each pattern as marked by the mark at the bottom.
And if it indeed isn't the answer, then:
Spoiler
Is there any significance to the fact that the patterns are mirrored digits?
E.g. in order of their bottom marks, the digits are 9 4 5 0 1 - I've tried some other solutions, none worked, but I can't figure out any where the digits play any part in it, if they do at all.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Papang » Post

ZenonSeth wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 15:08
This isn't the answer, correct?
Spoiler
Image
Gotten by taking the column from each pattern as marked by the mark at the bottom.
Spoiler
You are right, this isn't the answer
ZenonSeth wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 15:08
And if it indeed isn't the answer, then:
Spoiler
Is there any significance to the fact that the patterns are mirrored digits?
E.g. in order of their bottom marks, the digits are 9 4 5 0 1 - I've tried some other solutions, none worked, but I can't figure out any where the digits play any part in it, if they do at all.
Spoiler
yes there is a significance or, at least, it has to be pointed as an important fact to solve this box
I've made a video showing how to solve this box : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H28IaFu ... 5&index=27
But if you don't want any big spoil, i can give you a tip :
Spoiler
look for a repetitive sequence, you have found the order with bottom marks, find a way to obtain the next number

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Post

Inocudom wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 17:05
I don't see the point of putting myself through this torture anymore. Unless someone can help me with these three boxes, I will have to give up:
Welcome to OGL!
Spoiler
Find the link between the box number and the title
Spoiler
790 -> OGL
Inocudom wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 17:05
A song of Ice and Nexus
Spoiler
First you need to find witch piston moves for each hidden (or not) buttons, in order to find a way to the top. There might be some placeholders for snow around the top.
Then, you'll have to find 4 switches, 4 nexus and 3 ladders. Find the good items to put in the frames in order to open the gate.
Inocudom wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 17:05
Temple of Creation
Ok, this one is tricky, i wanted to make a hard box that can help builders to understand the use of mechs. Lots of things to read in terminals, just follow the instructions (the opened terminals are shown by a lighted lamp underneath them). There are many events in this box, a video is coming soon on my YT channel.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Inocudom » Post

Many thanks for your kind replies. They are very helpful.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Post

I've done some basic refreshes to the code - updating the server code to 5.6.x versions.

One of the benefits is that the server now supports, and enables, shadows. IMHO it adds a nice touch to the atmosphere. Some of the boxes will likely not benefit from it because of the shadow angle and especially deep boxes will remain pretty dark on one side. Overall though the lobby and some of the more open boxes really benefit from the aesthetic.

We're at around 240 or so boxes. The server is running really nice and comfy and uses 162mb for the world data, of which about 80Mb is the player database (containing 10K+ unique users).The Box data takes up 13MB - this is for about 1500 boxes of which ~240 are "reviewed and accepted".

My rankings program takes more than 1 hour to run the rankings code. This is probably the only concern I have right now. However, the ranking code can run fully async and so it wouldn't be a problem to update the rankings only once a day if needed.

In the long term I will probably migrate the server to a separate node.

Cheers and happy puzzling.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Wuzzy » Post

Not gonna lie, I think this should be turned into a true singleplayer game. I already have published a fork to make ITB singleplayer-ready and make installation pain-free <viewtopic.php?f=50&t=28183> <https://codeberg.org/Wuzzy/Inside_The_Box_SE>. Especially, I ripped out external dependencies like sqlite3 and I re-implemented the db mod to use only Minetest stuff. It works, but there are still no boxes in it yet, and I am not a builder.

I would love if boxes of the server could be moved into the singleplayer version, but I can't because of legal reasons / I do not have permission from anyone. I don't have the files anyway. Legally, it seems ALL boxes right now are fully copyrighted.

I think there is a strong case for a singleplayer version now. IIRC, the original reason why this was turned into a server, rather than a real singleplayer game, was to collect boxes from builders first. But we now have 240 boxes, so the goal has been more than reached. And the number of boxes has stagnated since a good time now; last year did not see a lot of additions. It seems the builder's creativity has run dry. I'm not complaining, 240 is an impresive number. :D Also, the server is quite old now. The fact that ITB is only playable online is and always was my biggest criticism. ITB is a classic singleplayer game that had forced multiplayer mode into it due to strategic reasons, and those strategic reasons no longer apply.

I think a singleplayer version also has the benefit that it can be more curated. Currently, the 240 boxes might be well-curated by quality (which is good), but they are not sorted or categorized in any useful way (which is bad). It's all shoehorned into the "New" series.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by rubenwardy » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 13:13
Not gonna lie, I think this should be turned into a true singleplayer game. I already have published a fork to make ITB singleplayer-ready and make installation pain-free <viewtopic.php?f=50&t=28183> <https://codeberg.org/Wuzzy/Inside_The_Box_SE>. Especially, I ripped out external dependencies like sqlite3 and I re-implemented the db mod to use only Minetest stuff. It works, but there are still no boxes in it yet, and I am not a builder.

I would love if boxes of the server could be moved into the singleplayer version, but I can't because of legal reasons / I do not have permission from anyone. I don't have the files anyway. Legally, it seems ALL boxes right now are fully copyrighted.

I think there is a strong case for a singleplayer version now. IIRC, the original reason why this was turned into a server, rather than a real singleplayer game, was to collect boxes from builders first. But we now have 240 boxes, so the goal has been more than reached. And the number of boxes has stagnated since a good time now; last year did not see a lot of additions. It seems the builder's creativity has run dry. I'm not complaining, 240 is an impresive number. :D Also, the server is quite old now. The fact that ITB is only playable online is and always was my biggest criticism. ITB is a classic singleplayer game that had forced multiplayer mode into it due to strategic reasons, and those strategic reasons no longer apply.

I think a singleplayer version also has the benefit that it can be more curated. Currently, the 240 boxes might be well-curated by quality (which is good), but they are not sorted or categorized in any useful way (which is bad). It's all shoehorned into the "New" series.
I 100% agree with this! Inside the box is wasting its potential being restricted to a server. Being able to be installed as a singleplayer game would increase its portability and allow it to be played offline. Boxes should be a couple of files, you could distribute them with the game and also have a HTTP API for uploading / downloading new boxes for the community

Inside the box as a singleplayer game would definitely be a candidate for a featured game when Minetest no longer ships with Minetest Game
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by TumeniNodes » Post

rubenwardy wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 20:28

Inside the box as a singleplayer game would definitely be a candidate for a featured game when Minetest no longer ships with Minetest Game
Fully Agree.
Would be even more awesome if eventually there were two player boxes as some puzzle maps have been done with MC
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Post

I am open to some of the posted ideas on how to get a wider audience for the puzzles created on the server, including sharing boxes over the network.

In my opinion the server model has worked well, but I have failed to implement better collaboration mechanisms. Moderation is still a fairly manual process and should be crowd-sourced instead. Builders that have posted and gotten their boxes accepted should have been able to become moderators/reviewers. Building collaboratively would have been a fairly good addition to this.

I'm going to step aside the "multiplayer puzzles" issue entirely for now. That is IMHO a whole different tangent and a complexity that's not related. I know people ask for this, and honestly it just needs to be coded, but it's something that has nothing to do with being able to play ITB offline or help the distribution of content to players (just makes it more complex).

I think one of the best steps forward would be to implement a box HTTP API service that would host the boxes for the official server. Once that is in place, we'd need to figure out access controls and/or moderation and metadata. Allowing anyone to retrieve boxes is one thing, but allowing unmoderated uploads is another. For the time being, we could require that people upload their new contributions through the ITB moderation system - perhaps after we improve it to handle online contributions and fix things like categorization and metadata handling.

Some system like this could also aid singleplayer - one could very much just have a singleplayer system without any boxes that just fetches them from the API server, and can be seeded (later) with a curated selection.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Wuzzy » Post

Well, that still doesn’t solve the problem of licensing. Exactly zero of the published boxes so far qualify as FOSS. Not even the tutorial. For the singleplayer fork, currently, all boxes would have to be built from scratch.

If some builders would step forward and allowed us to use their boxes under libre licenses (like CC BY-SA, CC BY or CC0), that would be great. Because that’s the most important step. Without any builder releasing their contributios under a libre license, my hands are tied and I can only use 100% new boxes legally.

Without any FOSS boxes, there can't be really a singleplayer ITB. I don't really want to add a HTTP download into the singleplayer edition, that’s still a bit overengineering. I strongly disagree with a singleplayer ITB that starts with zero boxes and you have to download them in-game. Even if I add HTTP download into it, I still want a solid base set of boxes.

The first goal is to have some boxes in the first place. The singleplayer game I imagine would have the boxes a bit more curated. In the server, the boxes are all over the place in the "New" series with no sorting by theme or difficulty or even multi-part boxes at all. What I want is to have the boxes more organized rather than have them in a long unsorted list. This is all possible in a singleplayer edition.

For ITB Singleplayer Edition, there are currently 2 possible ways forward:

- Go rogue: Build a completely new list of boxes from scratch, basically a full reset
- Seek to gain boxes from the server under libre licenses

Currently, no singleplayer boxes exist to this day. No progress has been made in either direction.



EDIT:

To be clear, I am !!!NOT!!! asking for new features or code. The code for ITB Singleplayer Edition has already been written. The things I am asking from the ITB server community is to release the boxes under libre licenses so they can actually be re-used.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by rob123 » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 14:14
Well, that still doesn’t solve the problem of licensing. Exactly zero of the published boxes so far qualify as FOSS. Not even the tutorial. For the singleplayer fork, currently, all boxes would have to be built from scratch.

If some builders would step forward and allowed us to use their boxes under libre licenses (like CC BY-SA, CC BY or CC0), that would be great. Because that’s the most important step. Without any builder releasing their contributios under a libre license, my hands are tied and I can only use 100% new boxes legally.

Without any FOSS boxes, there can't be really a singleplayer ITB. I don't really want to add a HTTP download into the singleplayer edition, that’s still a bit overengineering. I strongly disagree with a singleplayer ITB that starts with zero boxes and you have to download them in-game. Even if I add HTTP download into it, I still want a solid base set of boxes.

The first goal is to have some boxes in the first place. The singleplayer game I imagine would have the boxes a bit more curated. In the server, the boxes are all over the place in the "New" series with no sorting by theme or difficulty or even multi-part boxes at all. What I want is to have the boxes more organized rather than have them in a long unsorted list. This is all possible in a singleplayer edition.

For ITB Singleplayer Edition, there are currently 2 possible ways forward:

- Go rogue: Build a completely new list of boxes from scratch, basically a full reset
- Seek to gain boxes from the server under libre licenses

Currently, no singleplayer boxes exist to this day. No progress has been made in either direction.



EDIT:

To be clear, I am !!!NOT!!! asking for new features or code. The code for ITB Singleplayer Edition has already been written. The things I am asking from the ITB server community is to release the boxes under libre licenses so they can actually be re-used.
you can take my box:1182 combo
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Post

rob123 wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 05:12
you can take my box:1182 combo
cc-by-sa
Before we have 300 people posting this, it would be easier if we implement something on the server that people can do while online to release their boxes. That way owners can do this without me having to track down whether a forum user is actually the same user as the person on the forums. And it would be an easy way to determine which boxes would become available through some API end point to others. We also need to embed the proper metadata into the box - it's not just as simple as exporting the box contents.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Wuzzy » Post

Yay, we have the first libre box! OK, only on paper, but it's a start. :D :D

And yeah I agree the forums are probably not the best place to organize this, but I wanted to get the ball rolling.

Quick reminder that only the following Creative Commons licenses (any version) are compatible with free software:

- CC0
- CC BY
- CC BY-SA

(also please remember to specify version number)

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Pudding » Post

It would be nice if there were player rankings for individual boxes based on the fastest solve times. It would make boxes a lot more replayable.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Papang » Post

Pudding wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 06:50
It would be nice if there were player rankings for individual boxes based on the fastest solve times. It would make boxes a lot more replayable.
I totally agree ! And i'm ok to work on box sorting ! Maybe with some of the players that have finished all the boxes, like Wuzzy or Pudding ?

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Papang » Post

A new huge box has been approved : The Town by Raf, box number 798.
I strongly urge you to try it !

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Edit: I now solved this box, though not sure how.
For 837 : Bartimaeus - solved all the colors except the cyan one. This is now the last box left that I have not completed.

Is there some hidden trick? Every time I reset it picks a different configuration but all the configurations are literally unsolvable, considering that: a) you can only push 1 box, not 2 boxes at a time, b) you cannot pull boxes with the piston, c) the piston does not wrap around the edges or anything like that, d) the piston can only move on top of the cyan 'ground', it cannot move over the holes.

Or is the trick to keep resetting until you get a configuration that IS solvable? Cause that would be messed up.

For example, here's two simple, but unsolvable configurations under the above conditions:
Spoiler
config.jpg
config.jpg (53.06 KiB) Viewed 2529 times

and
config2.jpg
config2.jpg (31.34 KiB) Viewed 2529 times
Last edited by ZenonSeth on Tue Sep 26, 2023 16:03, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

I don't understand how Box 888: "Memory: A forgotten people" got approved, it's got broken elements and can easily become unwinnable without the user even knowing that they have messed up the box beyond winning.

I just beat it after 3 separate attempts (leaving the game between each). First attempt was just gathering info, and then I had to go. But the 2nd and 3rd, I found more than one level-breaking problems:
  • The worst one: You get 3 blocks of TNT. The 1st placement is unavoidable, you must use it to proceed. So you're then left with 2 TNT, BUT there are actually 3 spots where you can place them. The next TNT spot you encounter (a bridge with a column blocking it) will let you place the TNT and blow up the bridge, letting you pass - but if you do that, you've now screwed yourself. Because you can technically very carefully jump around that column - and the remaining 2 spots of TNT (to blow up 2 separate, unmarked walls) are REQUIRED to beat the level.
  • On the 2nd attempt, some metal bars did not get removed, yet they were removed on the 3rd attempt - but I had done nothing different at all. These metal bars MUST be removed to get to the exit.
  • On the 2nd attempt again, another set of metal bars was not removed, yet they were during the 3rd attempt. Again, there were 2 buttons which i had pressed both attempts, but it didn't work during the 2nd.
  • On the 3rd attempt a stone block that appeared during my 2nd attempt did not appear, which made it seemingly impossible to get back to the first part of the level (until I realized I can go die in lava to get back to the 1st part)
  • The color guessing mechanism can break, making one color get stuck - it broke during my 1st attempt - making it impossible to proceed with the level if it happen to get stuck on the wrong color.
I've beaten a lot of the boxes, over 2/3 of them. Box 888 is by far the buggiest one I've played.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Box 1205: Paleontology has a mistake in the clue for the puzzle. I solved it and the solution did not match what the clue was saying in one specific spot. It's a fairly challenging and involved puzzle so this mistake could easily throw someone off the correct solution.

Specifically:
Spoiler
On the grid shown (the longer of the 2 grids in the level), on column 14, the two circled blocks need to be swapped. Specifically from top to bottom column 14 should contain [Red Dirt] [Sandstone] [Limestone] [Red Dirt] - with the numbers remaining the same as they are.
grid_h_error.png
grid_h_error.png (490.38 KiB) Viewed 2467 times
Also, though not as problematic, the way the clues are, it has an ambiguity of where 2 stone blocks can go, but they're only 2 combinations that are valid, so trying out both is quick, assuming the player has solved the rest of it.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by iisu » Post

Idea: add mob spawners. Mobs could be used as obstacles (hostile mobs), puzzle elements (kill/shear sheep for wool, craft beehives and honey blocks, lead dogs to push pressure plates and retrieve items for you), and decoration (companion pets).
Roses are red, violets are blue. Omae wa mou shindeiru.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Well I just solved my last outstanding puzzle, so I have now solved all boxes that are available as of today! Woo!
Will wait for more, but I can finally try my hand at making one now :)

The past puzzle I had was Bartimaeus, for which I posted above - I solved it but I have to say for the Cyan and Purple rooms in that box, I have no idea what it actually wants from me. I get the puzzle's name references the blind beggar, so maybe that's intended, but it's very strange that I got the Cyan especially when I don't think I met the conditions (that is, all chests on top of detectors). Similar with the Pink, where I'm not sure what shape I was actually supposed to make, but I got the solution for it. What makes it weird is that the other 3 real puzzles in Bartimaeus made complete sense to me and I completed them exactly how and when I thought I would.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Pudding » Post

ZenonSeth wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 16:24
For 837 : Bartimaeus - solved all the colors except the cyan one.
Is there some hidden trick? Every time I reset it picks a different configuration but all the configurations are literally unsolvable, considering that: a) you can only push 1 box, not 2 boxes at a time, b) you cannot pull boxes with the piston, c) the piston does not wrap around the edges or anything like that, d) the piston can only move on top of the cyan 'ground', it cannot move over the holes.

Or is the trick to keep resetting until you get a configuration that IS solvable? Cause that would be messed up.

For example, here's two simple, but unsolvable configurations under the above conditions:
Spoiler
Image
and
Image
Box 837:
Cyan room is based on a puzzle video game from 1982 called "Sokoban" in which the player pushes boxes around in a warehouse, trying to get them to storage locations. The goal in cyan room is to move the chests onto each of the node detectors(yellow blocks).
The button on side of cyan room will reset the current level to its start position. If the puzzle is too hard there is a re-randomizer button at start of box. All cyan puzzle configurations are solvable.

A list of all the cyan configurations and where I got them from.
Spoiler
Image
1. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... tle-gift-8
2. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-05
3. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... efforts-02
4. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 9_room-082
5. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... _relaxed-2
6. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... tle-gift-5
7. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-06
8. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 5_room-118
9. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... relaxed-72
10. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 8885_wakfu
11. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-04
12. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... urprise-21
13. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 2_room-085
14. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... relaxed-71
ZenonSeth wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2023 16:22
Similar with the Pink, where I'm not sure what shape I was actually supposed to make
I apologies for the lack of indication for when the pink puzzle is solved. The solution is to have the recessed wall be entirely pink, which would be a cross shape.

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Pudding wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 07:33
ZenonSeth wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 16:24
Box 837:
Cyan room is based on a puzzle video game from 1982 called "Sokoban" in which the player pushes boxes around in a warehouse, trying to get them to storage locations. The goal in cyan room is to move the chests onto each of the node detectors(yellow blocks).
The button on side of cyan room will reset the current level to its start position. If the puzzle is too hard there is a re-randomizer button at start of box. All cyan puzzle configurations are solvable.

A list of all the cyan configurations and where I got them from.
Spoiler
Image
1. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... tle-gift-8
2. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-05
3. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... efforts-02
4. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 9_room-082
5. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... _relaxed-2
6. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... tle-gift-5
7. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-06
8. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 5_room-118
9. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... relaxed-72
10. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 8885_wakfu
11. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... ini-way-04
12. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... urprise-21
13. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... 2_room-085
14. https://www.sokobanonline.com/play/comm ... relaxed-71
Believe it or not, I actually know Sokoban and recognized that it's based on it. (In fact I know what games some of the other puzzles in that level are based on - Mastermind and Lights Outs, and I've seen some variations of the other one (the red one) before too but don't know the name). To be clear, I was talking about the limitations, which are identical to Sokoban, because I thought you had put in some variation of Sokoban, not the straight up puzzle.(Which again to be clear, I understand that it's actually just plain Sokoban, without variations)

I'm also aware of what the objective is, as I described in my post, but I was focusing more on the limitations. I think for that room, the objective is clear enough even if someone has not played Sokoban before. I'm also aware of the reset and new level buttons... as I also mentioned cycling through the variations.

As for the solutions, I concede that they are solvable, it just didn't seem that way at the time for the configurations I was getting. I just solved the last one - the "Relaxed #71" on the website (one of the ones I thought is unsolvable) and your version does indeed look like just a rotated version of it. I did not check your other configurations to see if they match the ones you linked on the website.

ALSO, since you have replied to an old post of mine and perhaps did not see my later post - I did eventually beat your level - way before you replied to me - even if the objective on the Pink was unclear.

Mr. Sun
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Mr. Sun » Post

How to reach box 7? I can't jump so high. I can see the doors, but I can't get there.
Sorry, I'm bad at English, I'm Chinese. | I'm a CTF player.

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ZenonSeth
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Mr. Sun wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:37
How to reach box 7? I can't jump so high. I can see the doors, but I can't get there.
Do you mean Tutorial Part 7?

If so, hint:
Spoiler
When you get to the jump that's too high to reach the doors, turn around, go back a bit and look for a way up. Also when you're up there, explore every area and ledge.
And if the hint isn't enough:
Spoiler

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