[Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Stix » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:46

help i need to edit my box but i submitted it, and then realized that i provided the wrong tool to start off with.
P.S. its box 114.
EDIT: nevermind nore helped me, and now i have submitted my first box: UP
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Stix » Tue Sep 12, 2017 14:49

for some reason when playing my box i can take things from item-frames, why is that?
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 15:45

Stix wrote:for some reason when playing my box i can take things from item-frames, why is that?


Note: all the details about nodes is explained in the "Library". You can find the library under the in "Create" section. In there we show how almost every aspect of the game works that builders can use.

As for item frames. They can be locked or unlocked. If unlocked, the player will be able to get the item in it. Most blocks and tools can be put in item frames.

Punch with the SHIFT key pressed to lock or unlock an item frame.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Stix » Tue Sep 12, 2017 15:46

ok, that means i need someone to reject my puzzle so i can lock the frames.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Tue Sep 12, 2017 16:47

sofar wrote:@azekill_DIABLO

So, I just rechecked box 81, and indeed it's now completable. However there are some major style problems with it.

- You're using node digging tools (good) but the nodes that have to be dug are the same as all the other nodes used in the box, so it's by sheer luck that a player will find out which.
- There's maybe 4 useful switches in the box, but there are 40+ switches, and so this still exceeds the troll level
- There's switches incorrectly wired up as well
- Lots of troll boxes
- The player is pretty much forced to die to obtain a required item.
- One of the doors isn't even openable, I assume you didn't figure out how to wire it up so that both doors open at the same time

If there was just one or two of these things wrong with the box, I could maybe consider it. But you're exceeding my threshold for what I consider a reasonable hunt/search, and solely relying on just stuffing maximum annoyance into it. It's not a super pretty box either, again it's terribly dark, and the forcedly placed torch at the start is another signal that the box just isn't thought out well.

There's tons of ways to fix this problem, like using buttons and auto-deleting buttons that have been pressed, or actually using all the buttons for something useful, like turning on lights, removing fire or obstacles, etc..

okay, i will review it, i didn't had enough time sry :)
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Tue Sep 12, 2017 16:47

Stix wrote:ok, that means i need someone to reject my puzzle so i can lock the frames.

Can you add a un-submit button sofar? thx
Code: Select all
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 17:51

azekill_DIABLO wrote:
Stix wrote:ok, that means i need someone to reject my puzzle so i can lock the frames.

Can you add a un-submit button sofar? thx


Yes, nore and me have been discussing the addition of this. We're not yet sure how it will work, since we want to prevent several mishaps that could happen if we do this, so this may take a bit of work and time.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 17:55

azekill_DIABLO wrote:okay, i will review it, i didn't had enough time sry :)


Don't worry too much about it. I'm being very (very) picky at the moment, and we all have limited time. As long as you are having fun working on this, and we're not frustrating each other, I'd say take the time and spend it on redoing one box at a time. Pimp it out. Schnazz it up.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Sep 13, 2017 07:36

+ Spoiler


New great box by Stix. Stix did a great job on this box, it's both small and large, feels very well decorated.

Now playable on the server! Part of the "new" series.

Stix: got one small question for you - ping me in game after you see this.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Wed Sep 13, 2017 15:29

as only one of my box bein validated?

EDIT: nope :[ (sure if i only do troll boxes... can we have such category? :D)

PS: i cna't create boxes anymore... which is disappointing. I can't delete some either.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Stix » Wed Sep 13, 2017 16:23

sofar what do you mean by "ping"? im currently waiting for you on the server.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Wed Sep 13, 2017 17:16

xD
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Stix » Wed Sep 13, 2017 18:00

pliz reject my latest box: "nothing to see here", there is nothing wrong with it but when i was in bed last night i thought of a way to make it better.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Sep 13, 2017 23:18

azekill_DIABLO wrote:i cna't create boxes anymore... which is disappointing. I can't delete some either.


We've put a limit on the amount of boxes you can make. Once you get some of your boxes accepted, you will be able to make new boxes again. This prevents people from making tons of "testing" boxes and never finishing anything.

No need to delete any box, just clean it out and build something new. In the future, we might add some sort of "wipe box" function.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by DS-minetest » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:59

sofar wrote:No need to delete any box, just clean it out and build something new. In the future, we might add some sort of "wipe box" function.

Will there also be a way to change the size of a box?
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Thu Sep 14, 2017 17:13

DS-minetest wrote:Will there also be a way to change the size of a box?


If we can wipe a box, then we can likely also change the size. However, changing the size will probably also wipe it as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having this functionality, it's just going to take a bit before we get to adding it. Every day I chisel away and try to do a few little bits. We fix important bugs first, try and review boxes every day that are submitted, take a look at features we can add.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Thu Sep 14, 2017 17:14

sofar wrote:chisel

ohh! i got an idea! a chisel to make block chiseled! please add it, we miss tools!

also, please add a tool to make big planes, it would be very useful.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Thu Sep 14, 2017 18:54

Updates! More of a "how is it going" post:

It's been barely 2 weeks that the server is live, and we've had a blast. We've seen up to 14 concurrent players in the starting weekend, at many times there are 6 or more players online. We're continuing to monitor the difficulty and progress of players through the tutorial and other series, and we might make adjustments here and there.

So, a good time to take a look at some numbers!

- 673 unique clients connected to the media server (mtmediasrv).
- 681 clients retrieved the game music over HTTP

This is important data, it means that connection issues aren't caused by our server, and also it shows that most clients have curl/media server support enabled, which helps our server perform better. It also means we are doing a good job of serving clients the data they need, since the server media is roughly 30-35 megabytes of assets at the moment.

The reason it's that large is 3-fold. The music tracks are the largest factor. We want you to enjoy the game, and not feel like we've compromised on the experience, so we have 8 full stereo 44KHz tracks, and 17 megabytes of data for 8 tracks is really reasonable - less than 2mb per track average.

The Skybox textures are large, since we offer 6 sets so that boxes can have different atmospheres. Each set is 6 pictures again, and each photo averages 300kb. Again we're not willing to compromise on quality too much, so we've reduced them to a point where we feel that quality is maintained at a high level. The game uses very little 3D models. It's only about 200k total, including the player model. Game sound effects can be large, but we've attempted to conserve here. This means that we're still short quite a few sound effects that we need to add to the game. Only 2mb of sound effects are used, for a total of 120 sound effects, so they're really not that large. Textures are only (!) 2.1mb total. This is fantastic given that we're using all original textures that create a unique look and feel to the game.

As you can see, it's not small, but we have the infrastructure in place to make the download as smooth and fast as we can, and the data from log files shows that it's performing well.

So, let's look at player counts a bit.

We already noticed the geographic distribution of players earlier and that it's all around earth where people have come from, which is fantastic. There are some periods in time when the server is usually quiet, but I'm surprised often by players being online and building or playing at odd hours. I think the music really helps to make the server feel pleasant even if there are no other players around nearby.

- total players: 361
- total players who have completed the tutorial: 57

It's very obvious we lose a lot of players quickly, which isn't unsurprising - we have a lot of logins from android clients and most likely they just randomly logged in on the server without knowing anything about it. Since parkours is virtually impossible on tablets and phones, we won't likely ever retain any android or tablet player, and so we don't try either, it would make the game too easy and then we'd also lose PC players, which we don't want to do. Still, 5 new players per day average is a really good number.

Let's take a look at how far people get in the tutorial:

Completed:
- 1: 256
- 2: 193
- 3: 180
- 4: 134
- 5: 87
- 6: 59(*)
- 7: 66
- 8: 57

(*) The numbers look weird because part 6 was mistakenly omitted for the first few days from the series.

My interpretation is that this doesn't look too bad - there isn't one box that is causing most of the problems. As a matter of fact, the curve is fairly smooth. Even in the ridiculously easy box 1 we have many people give up. Do we want to make box #1 easier? Maybe, but not by too much. We can't add text signs everywhere, since a lot of players are likely not even english speaking. Arrows? That's really changing the appearance of the game, and not necessarily for the better.

Tutorial part 4 seems to be the first box where we see some larger numbers of players drop. We have to know that it takes most players 10-15 minutes maybe to get here, and their time commitment may just not be that large, and we're also not a server that appeals to the masses, so is it so bad that when the puzzles get a bit more difficult, that we lose some less dedicated players? In my opinion, not so much just yet. Tutorial part 5 has a similar drop. We're probably losing a lot of players that are bored already.

After box 5, however, we're almost not losing any player at all. So these really difficult boxes that everyone complains about? Not so tough in the end. Of course, we have no standards for acceptable failure levels yet :)

If you look back through the entire thread here, you see that in the end about 10% of all players unlock *all* the content, which is really good (This includes players that don't even successfully connect, at all). It's understandable that the tutorial removes a lot of uninterested players, and we actually want this.

Back to fixing bugs and adding cool new features :)
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Thu Sep 14, 2017 18:55

azekill_DIABLO wrote:
sofar wrote:chisel

ohh! i got an idea! a chisel to make block chiseled! please add it, we miss tools!

also, please add a tool to make big planes, it would be very useful.


Since box building is entirely the same as creative mode, using tools to craft isn't ever going to happen.

As for chiseling, I do intend to grow the number of nodes, and something like chiseled or ornamental sandstone or quarts is on the list of things I want to add, especially since we already have the textures for these nodes.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Fri Sep 15, 2017 14:53

cool! i'm now waiting for a 'clear box' button! (if isn't already)
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✮☭✮ I am the communist bitwaster! Join me comrade and together we will Seize the Means of Production !!! ✮☭✮

I am the one, don't weight a ton, don't need a gun, to get respect up on the street.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Sat Sep 16, 2017 05:26

Updates:

I've added a "paint tool" that replaces nodes. You can pick up a node with left-click and then right click existing nodes to replace them with the node you just picked up.

The bulk place tool (bucket) now has 2 extra modes: large sheet and large blob. The shapes are a bit more blobby and less irregular, and the size is really very large. The large blob tool WILL encase you, so you likely have to dig yourself out, but it will still be handy for players who just want an easy way to fill their boxes.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by azekill_DIABLO » Sat Sep 16, 2017 08:53

cool!

EDIT: thanks sofar of having accepted my box 59! My box "the office" is now much better you know! will soon be released!
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Hi, my username is azekill_DIABLO and I'm an excellent bug-maker (yeah...I know...I have a bad reputation)

✮☭✮ I am the communist bitwaster! Join me comrade and together we will Seize the Means of Production !!! ✮☭✮

I am the one, don't weight a ton, don't need a gun, to get respect up on the street.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by v-rob » Sun Sep 17, 2017 02:11

In the Welcome on the first terminal, Minetest is not capitalized.

Also, glass windows touch other blocks, which leads to texture conflicting, which is ugly.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Sun Sep 17, 2017 06:25

v-rob wrote:In the Welcome on the first terminal, Minetest is not capitalized.


Eh, does it really matter? I mean, you can probably find worse problems than that.

v-rob wrote:Also, glass windows touch other blocks, which leads to texture conflicting, which is ugly.


I... I can't find any issues with it. Can you make a screenshot and post the link somewhere? Glass all looks fine to me, even in combination with water.
 

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:-(

by Wuzzy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 09:13

Image

Boo!
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