Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMovement

IanniPowerup!!!
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Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMovement

by IanniPowerup!!! » Wed Mar 21, 2018 19:32

As u all know there's only 1 popular way of dealing with players that don't fit in . And that's banning , either temporarelly either permanently . Most of us know it's wrong , you shouldn't keep a player from playing in the server . And totally NOT abuse your power as an admin/mod/helper against someone u dissgree with or don't like .
Someone's personality should defenetly not be a reason to ban . If you wanna play the ''admin'' role at least make the system work . If you are against swearing put a censoring comand .
My BEST choise for bad players is a jail system , it's easy to make and it isn't banning , the player still gets to log in , but do community work or only live in a space . It's so simple : Revoke the interact , shout and spawn priv and put someone in jail for 3 weeks . This way you are not banning and the server has actually a working system .

This is why i want to create the Anti-Ban Movement for MineTest , so we at least convince some servers to adopt this method .

Banning isn't the solution , keep players in the game .

#AntiBanMovement
 

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Linuxdirk
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TommyTreasure
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by TommyTreasure » Wed Mar 21, 2018 20:05

Linuxdirk wrote:“My server, my rules – Obey or leave” #ProBanMovement


Agreed!
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by DragonsVolcanoDance » Wed Mar 21, 2018 20:14

Banning the ban is a very bad idea. If nobody was banned ever from any respectable server, that server would quickly become a complete mess of people who aren't being punished properly, and then all the good players would leave the server because it has become to uncivilized. Other methods of punishment such as jailing and the like might work for smaller offenses, but those are NOT going to stop the trolls. That just feeds them. Banning is quick, easy, and permanent if you want it to be.

IanniPowerup!!! wrote:As u all know there's only 1 popular way of dealing with players that don't fit in . And that's banning , either temporarelly either permanently . Most of us know it's wrong , you shouldn't keep a player from playing in the server .


As TommyTreasure and Linuxdirk just said before - My server, my rules. Obey or leave. Respect the Server and the staff members if you want to stay.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by TommyTreasure » Wed Mar 21, 2018 20:50

IanniPowerup!!! wrote:As u all know there's only 1 popular way of dealing with players that don't fit in . And that's banning , either temporarelly either permanently . Most of us know it's wrong , you shouldn't keep a player from playing in the server . And totally NOT abuse your power as an admin/mod/helper against someone u dissgree with or don't like .
Someone's personality should defenetly not be a reason to ban . If you wanna play the ''admin'' role at least make the system work . If you are against swearing put a censoring comand .
My BEST choise for bad players is a jail system , it's easy to make and it isn't banning , the player still gets to log in , but do community work or only live in a space . It's so simple : Revoke the interact , shout and spawn priv and put someone in jail for 3 weeks . This way you are not banning and the server has actually a working system .

This is why i want to create the Anti-Ban Movement for MineTest , so we at least convince some servers to adopt this method .

Banning isn't the solution , keep players in the game .

#AntiBanMovement


Your ideals seem to conflict with your ideals.

First, and above all, server administrators are basically letting you (meaning all players) visit their home. You feel that banning is unfair, yet you feel that censorship is ok. Do you see the conflict here? Would you allow me to visit your home and tell your mom, dad, wife, husband, girlfriend, or boyfriend how they should treat you?

Censorship isn't needed for players that have been brought up to respect the values of the server's administrators and/or moderators. They just know better.

We dedicated administrators, take the time and effort to learn the inner workings of the Minetest game, the installation and customization of our selected mods. Most of the dedicated administrators also spend considerable time, resources, and money to either host a server, either on our own equipment, or on a VPS host.

Therefore, we (the dedicated administrators), get to choose our rules, and methods to keep the peace or lack of peace on our creations.

Very simply put, if you don't like the rules the administrators have set for their servers, don't play on them.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by sorcerykid » Wed Mar 21, 2018 20:55

My server is an anarchy survival server, but I do have a fundamental set of rules to ensure it is playable and enjoyable by the widest group of people (respecting age, language, and cultural differences of course) without limiting creativity and amusement.

For that reason, I do occasionally have to ban people, but not indiscriminately. Bans only come into play for repeat offenders that express a wanton disregard for the rules of the server. The only exception, of course, is if I see a player willfully jeopardizing the security of the server or the safety of other players, in which case a ban might be imposed immediately, without forewarning. I never ban a player for personal reasons, such as a difference of opinion or a verbal conflict. But at the same time I do not tolerate harassment (that is continuously engaging in acts of extreme hostility and prejudice to the point that it makes the game unplayable for others).

I trust moderators to inform me when certain questionable activities cross that threshold and might warrant a temporary or permanent ban. I imagine that many other server operators uphold similar banning policies for their own servers.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Waterbug » Wed Mar 21, 2018 21:23

I am a moderator On rubenwardy's ctf server. I banned someone who I shouldn't have banned but then unbanned them a few hours later. Yes, moderators can make mistakes with kick/ban but that does not mean we should get rid of banning people; it is the most effective way to keep a server a nice place to play. By the way, most bans are temporary and only a few very bad players get banned off a server forever.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by AspireMint » Wed Mar 21, 2018 21:38

IanniPowerup!!! wrote:--snip--
My BEST choise for bad players is a jail system , it's easy to make and it isn't banning , the player still gets to log in , but do community work or only live in a space . It's so simple : Revoke the interact , shout and spawn priv and put someone in jail for 3 weeks . This way you are not banning and the server has actually a working system .
--snip--


Wait, same effect as tempban for 3 weeks. But tempban also tells you what bad you did.
gif
Im for more bans :P i trust admins.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Coder12 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 22:29

Sorry kid but if people can't obey server rules then they can't play there. Just a fact. The server admins have the right to make rules and ban people because the server belongs to them.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Skulls » Wed Mar 21, 2018 23:03

Who hurt you so badly, IanniPowerup?

Letting an abusive player log in even with stripped privileges still consumes non-trivial server resources which could go to other players. If the mods on a server are being abusive there is nothing the players can do to save it.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by veriaqa » Wed Mar 21, 2018 23:41

DragonsVolcanoDance wrote:Banning the ban is a very bad idea. If nobody was banned ever from any respectable server, that server would quickly become a complete mess of people who aren't being punished properly, and then all the good players would leave the server because it has become to uncivilized. Other methods of punishment such as jailing and the like might work for smaller offenses, but those are NOT going to stop the trolls. That just feeds them. Banning is quick, easy, and permanent if you want it to be.
.


I agree with this. I was in this football forum that the mods are very lenient. They never ban people. Even for someone who clearly broke every single of forum rules. And before long the places was a complete mess. Bullying, harassing, namecalling, spaming, hatred, bickering and arguing in every single thread, etc. And then the good posters leave. And there are no new poster because people were not interested in joining. Then the bad posters stop posting because there are no other (good) poster to bully and harass. Then the place is now dead.

The same will happen to any servers which the rules are not enforced by a strong mods and their banhammer.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Mineminer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 06:46

veriaqa wrote:
DragonsVolcanoDance wrote:Banning the ban is a very bad idea. If nobody was banned ever from any respectable server, that server would quickly become a complete mess of people who aren't being punished properly, and then all the good players would leave the server because it has become to uncivilized. Other methods of punishment such as jailing and the like might work for smaller offenses, but those are NOT going to stop the trolls. That just feeds them. Banning is quick, easy, and permanent if you want it to be.
.


I agree with this. I was in this football forum that the mods are very lenient. They never ban people. Even for someone who clearly broke every single of forum rules. And before long the places was a complete mess. Bullying, harassing, namecalling, spaming, hatred, bickering and arguing in every single thread, etc. And then the good posters leave. And there are no new poster because people were not interested in joining. Then the bad posters stop posting because there are no other (good) poster to bully and harass. Then the place is now dead.

The same will happen to any servers which the rules are not enforced by a strong mods and their banhammer.


I think we totally going "off gears" here. I believe what the OP is upset about is not obvious rule violations but bans that shouldn't been either looser or not even taken place.

For example do you REALLY need to ban someone who said a bad word once or twice especially if it wasn't geared towards a person/group? If it more than that? Yea I would bring out the "ban hammer".

Another way it goes out of hands is "I am banning you because I don't like you". Literally while I wasn't "banned" but I was still "ejected" from a Minecraft whitelist just because of those premises.

As for those who says "it's my so..." that's only half the truth. The rest? is the MARKET. If you don't provision a service that people enjoy? Guess what? Yea no more donation cash for you.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by ChimneySwift » Thu Mar 22, 2018 08:09

If you don't like a server's punishment, then go to another server, or even better, make your own. If every server is banning you then maybe you're the problem. The server is still ultimately the owner's and they can do as they please, if they ban good players then they will suffer from that, but even if you're donating it doesn't make the server yours.
A spoon is basically a tiny bowl with a stick on it
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Mineminer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 15:27

ChimneySwift wrote:If you don't like a server's punishment, then go to another server, or even better, make your own. If every server is banning you then maybe you're the problem. The server is still ultimately the owner's and they can do as they please, if they ban good players then they will suffer from that, but even if you're donating it doesn't make the server yours.


Exactly as I mentioned. In other words you get the "power" unless the market/community thinks your abusing them.

As for the donations, most of the time that is true but at the same time your general players the ones keeping your green lights flashing. With that said as mentioned if the owner/staffs abuse their powers then it really stinks for everyone.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Shara » Thu Mar 22, 2018 16:37

As a server admin: This isn't a popularity contest to me so I don't want to cater to as many players as possible to the extent of babysitting troublemakers just to avoid typing /ban.

I made my servers for me. Because I wanted to. Because I enjoy working on them. I consider them to be environments that should function within the rules and vision I set for them, because if they can't meet this my purpose for creating them is gone. If (and thankfully it seems to be the case that) people share my vision and agree with my rules, they are welcomed, and over time the server becomes theirs as much as it is mine. I've been blessed enough to have many such players and it's created servers with a healthy and pleasant environment and which now have reliable teams who assist in moderation and other tasks.

But the ability to ban is vital to this.

If I see serious spam (not talking about one or two lines here), predatory behaviour (I've seen some nasty messages kids shouldn't be exposed to), intentional griefing or other malicious behaviour after a warning and so on... then /ban it is.

I don't support banning for personal reasons or random bans just for laughs or any of the other nonsense you might occasionally hear about on some servers, but a good approach to when you ban and for what can save your regular players many a headache and preserve the environment that made them settle on your server to begin with.

So... no anti-ban movement for me :)
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by GoldFireUn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 18:02

Even hardcore “anarchy” survival-mode servers need /ban. Because “anarchy” shouldn’t be taken to mean that you can dump water/lava over the entire city just because you hate somebody down there.

Personally though, I have never had to ban anyone (yet). But that’s probably just because of the gameplay environment that is in place. The usual offenses have in-game solutions. In the case of foul language, the offender gets automatic kick or mute. The first person to figure out how to circumvent my in-game solutions, in a way that I can’t solve with more creative code, is going to be removed. I might even set up a headstone over your bones.

--------------------------
In general:

You’re never going to convince the market to remove bans, because the market is always going to need sensible, direct, and workable ways to deal with people whose preference is to knock over all the chess pieces and dump on the chess board.

I do not recommend trying to start a social movement about it. But if you insist, here is a tip: to remove bans, you must first remove the market. Go now and agitate for this in what way seems best to you.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by rubenwardy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 18:07

I want CTF to be a good environment to play in, so I reserve the right to ban arseholes.

In most cases I will warn people first using a kick and temp bans. I will however immediately, without warning, ban people who post graphic sexual content, or are overly malicious. I won't ban just because I don't like someone however, but will take action on people which breach the server rules.

Ultimately my aim is to protect my players, not to use it as a show of force. The problem with revoking privs is that they're not sticky - they can just use another name
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by sofar » Thu Mar 22, 2018 18:16

Important concept in this discussion is the Paradox of Tolerance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

If you stop banning, you end up becoming less tolerant altogether and therefore part of an oppressive mechanism that promotes intolerance, while you intended to promote tolerance.

Banning is therefore needed to create a tolerant community where banning is scarce. It's also important to let players know that there are limits and corrective mechanisms in place, like the `filter` mod does, for instance.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Skulls » Thu Mar 22, 2018 22:39

Came here for the flaming, left with a philosophy lesson.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Linuxdirk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:50

rubenwardy wrote:The problem with revoking privs is that they're not sticky - they can just use another name

Same with bans. (Most IP addresses for end users are dynamic on a 24 hours basis outside the US.)
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by rubenwardy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:52

No, bans are sticky in that you can't just change name. It's a lot easier to change name than IP, and changing IP is still easy even when you have a static IP
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Linuxdirk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:30

rubenwardy wrote:It's a lot easier to change name than IP

The complexity of changing the name is on same level with the complexity of changing the IP. Those are simply two different tasks of same complexity.
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by rubenwardy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:33

No, one can be done in a second whereas the other usually requires money for a VPN, a router switch off, or time for be the IP to change
 

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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Linuxdirk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 14:22

rubenwardy wrote:No, one can be done in a second whereas the other usually requires money for a VPN, a router switch off, or time for be the IP to change

Or logging in to the router and click reboot.
 

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