Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMovement
Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
Fussel, as a note for you, TommyTreasure is one of the fairest and most considerate server admins I have ever worked with. I have never known him to ban blindly or without his thoughts directed toward the greater good of the server. In fact, I trust him enough that I have frequently left one of my servers in his care and am very happy to consider him a member of my admin team.
With that said, I don't know why you seem to think there are so many terrible admins or why you seem to think every server that has a rule against arguing with staff members is somehow bad or wrong. Pretty much every complaint or attempt to argue with me (or my team members) that I have ever seen in-game has been in response to a player breaking the rules and not liking that they were called out on it. And my moderators, though expected to follow the rules and work within them, are not expected to take verbal abuse for their trouble. So yes, insult or swear at one of my moderators and they are welcome to ban you.
The thing to note here is that I also don't stand for my players being insulted or sworn at. But it's my moderators who are more likely to be a target because they are the ones who put themselves in the firing line over and over by standing up for the rules. So it's completely fine to have a rule calling attention to the fact that it's wrong to attack them.
I'd really love to know where you get your information about all these terrible servers anyway, because it's not these specific rules that are a problem but how they are interpreted and how they are enforced, and unless you spend a lot of time on other servers seeing how admins treat players, I don't think you can really judge this.
Beyond that, what Linuxdirk just said above, really. Also what sofar said. And what Tommy said.
With that said, I don't know why you seem to think there are so many terrible admins or why you seem to think every server that has a rule against arguing with staff members is somehow bad or wrong. Pretty much every complaint or attempt to argue with me (or my team members) that I have ever seen in-game has been in response to a player breaking the rules and not liking that they were called out on it. And my moderators, though expected to follow the rules and work within them, are not expected to take verbal abuse for their trouble. So yes, insult or swear at one of my moderators and they are welcome to ban you.
The thing to note here is that I also don't stand for my players being insulted or sworn at. But it's my moderators who are more likely to be a target because they are the ones who put themselves in the firing line over and over by standing up for the rules. So it's completely fine to have a rule calling attention to the fact that it's wrong to attack them.
I'd really love to know where you get your information about all these terrible servers anyway, because it's not these specific rules that are a problem but how they are interpreted and how they are enforced, and unless you spend a lot of time on other servers seeing how admins treat players, I don't think you can really judge this.
Beyond that, what Linuxdirk just said above, really. Also what sofar said. And what Tommy said.
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
If you don't give your players an opportunity to give you feedback about what happened and blindly trust your staff members, then you are a bad server owner in my eyes.Shara wrote:Fussel, as a note for you, TommyTreasure is one of the fairest and most considerate server admins I have ever worked with. I have never known him to ban blindly or without his thoughts directed toward the greater good of the server. In fact, I trust him enough that I have frequently left one of my servers in his care and am very happy to consider him a member of my admin team.
With that said, I don't know why you seem to think there are so many terrible admins or why you seem to think every server that has a rule against arguing with staff members is somehow bad or wrong. Pretty much every complaint or attempt to argue with me (or my team members) that I have ever seen in-game has been in response to a player breaking the rules and not liking that they were called out on it. And my moderators, though expected to follow the rules and work within them, are not expected to take verbal abuse for their trouble. So yes, insult or swear at one of my moderators and they are welcome to ban you.
The thing to note here is that I also don't stand for my players being insulted or sworn at. But it's my moderators who are more likely to be a target because they are the ones who put themselves in the firing line over and over by standing up for the rules. So it's completely fine to have a rule calling attention to the fact that it's wrong to attack them.
I'd really love to know where you get your information about all these terrible servers anyway, because it's not these specific rules that are a problem but how they are interpreted and how they are enforced, and unless you spend a lot of time on other servers seeing how admins treat players, I don't think you can really judge this.
Beyond that, what Linuxdirk just said above, really. Also what sofar said. And what Tommy said.
Staff members are not perfect, they also make mistakes and you should realize that.
And if you think that you don't need to respect others rights on your private property then you are not fair, because you are allowed to say something others cannot tell for example.
That is close to censorship and if you enforce censorship just because you don't want to read or hear something then I don't know what to tell you.
It really doesn't matter to me how much you trust him or how well you think he treats his/your players ... I am obviously more fair if you think that my way of managing a server is being "too fair".
Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
Fussel, stop making things up.
Where have I ever said I don't let players give me feedback? Where have I said I blindly trust my staff members? Are you unable to read where I say they are expected to follow the rules? Have you ever known me to not respect other people? And how exactly am I close to censorship? At this point I think you're just throwing words around because you want someone to be self-righteous at.
And no, I don't think you are more fair. I've seen how you run a server, and note that while I have not insulted your approach, you are not in any way a better admin than I am, or than Tommy is, or than many other admins I've watched on their servers are.
It's interesting that the ones taking the "banning is evil and wrong" side of things seem to want to call themselves superior to everyone else.
Where have I ever said I don't let players give me feedback? Where have I said I blindly trust my staff members? Are you unable to read where I say they are expected to follow the rules? Have you ever known me to not respect other people? And how exactly am I close to censorship? At this point I think you're just throwing words around because you want someone to be self-righteous at.
And no, I don't think you are more fair. I've seen how you run a server, and note that while I have not insulted your approach, you are not in any way a better admin than I am, or than Tommy is, or than many other admins I've watched on their servers are.
It's interesting that the ones taking the "banning is evil and wrong" side of things seem to want to call themselves superior to everyone else.
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
This is stupid if you don't want a ban why would you do some stupid crap on the server.
Whats the trick? I wish I knew
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
and want to ban people from banning people... for not following the rulesShara wrote:It's interesting that the ones taking the "banning is evil and wrong" side of things seem to want to call themselves superior to everyone else.
ahhhh, when real life politics find their way into the Minetest world, which is meant to be fun and a means to escape reality for a while.
This topic is about something which is never going to happen.
Any person who owns/runs a server, has the right to run it as they see fit.
It is also a topic started by someone who has their own opinion, yet feels it is the opinion which ALL should have, which is not and never will be the case.
It is a topic which provides no way to go, but to bring disagreements of opinions, and turn into a hashing of clashing personalities and arguing.
I honestly don't know why someone would even start such a conversation. Don't like the rules on a server? Move onto another, or get your own.
Belittling others for running their server the way they want, while making a bold claim that YOU are the best at it, is just foolish and a way to start trouble.
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when (and why) did players start judging the actions of administrators and moderators?IhrFussel wrote:When I talk about servers that are treating their players badly I don't talk about non-serious servers, I actually talk about servers that are very popular for some reason even though they make up stupid rules to follow.
I only consider a server owner/staff good and fair if:
- They follow their own rules
- They accept and tolerate people with different opinions as long as they don't break rules
- They act neutrally and do NOT see themselves above regular players
- They think about other ways of punishment before they blindly ban players forever
- They don't punish players for something that was never part of the server rules
- They actually listen to feedback from players and consider changes/additions based off of it
- They actively maintain the server and are online regularly
I might have forgotten something, but those are the points I require before I call server management "good".
Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
sofar wrote:Dude, go play MC instead. Your idea of "market standards" are what you get when you play a paid, proprietary game on-line.Mineminer wrote: Again if the server is not up to market standards then don't expects to last for the long run. It may be your own box/service but that doesn't means the market cannot "vote with their bucks".
Almost everyone who runs an MT server does so by putting their own personal money down without getting anything back for it, other than the enjoyment of having people play and have a good time.
Your expectation clearly do not match the minetest community. Please go away, or run a server that matches your own expectations.
Servers are not free, staff times are not free either, and so on. Servers NEEDS to monetize or else they don't thrive. REGARDLESS if your in it to "make a buck" or not.
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
I think it's high time that this topic was locked. Obviously, no one is going to agree, so what's the point in arguing and becoming more and more unhappy because you can't change someone else's opinion?
(Note that I'm not going to state my opinion on this matter because that would not help anyone and would contribute to the general disagreement.)
(Note that I'm not going to state my opinion on this matter because that would not help anyone and would contribute to the general disagreement.)
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Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
I have to agree on you on this.v-rob wrote:I think it's high time that this topic was locked. Obviously, no one is going to agree, so what's the point in arguing and becoming more and more unhappy because you can't change someone else's opinion?
(Note that I'm not going to state my opinion on this matter because that would not help anyone and would contribute to the general disagreement.)
Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove
Stop playing minetest.Mineminer wrote: Servers are not free, staff times are not free either, and so on. Servers NEEDS to monetize or else they don't thrive. REGARDLESS if your in it to "make a buck" or not.
We're not doing this to monetize, period. I've got a paid day job and I'm not interested in making money off of minetest. If you take a quick survey of the top ~30 in the minetest server list, I don't think you'll find anyone who is monetizing anything.
Staff *is* free. Nobody is paying anyone to babysit and mod any MT server.
Now, if you want to prove me wrong, DON'T JUST REPLY, instead build a server that monetizes succesfully and show me your quarterly numbers.
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Stop it please!
I don't think it's a good idea to keep this thread alive. All that had to be said has already been said, and the debate is going all over the place, becomes incomprehensible and mostly ad hominem.
Just realize how bored we would be if the world was perfect.
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