Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMovement

TommyTreasure
Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 01:37
IRC: TommyTreasure
In-game: TommyTreasure

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by TommyTreasure » Fri Mar 23, 2018 16:36

That's one reason I require an 'email verification' before I allow a player to join my server.
 

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
Location: Germany
In-game: Linuxdirk

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Linuxdirk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 16:55

TommyTreasure wrote:That's one reason I require an 'email verification' before I allow a player to join my server.

Unfortunately getting a fake mail address is even easier than restarting the router to get a new IP. You don't even need to register for those mail accounts.

Without personal verification/validation using video chat for example it is simply impossible to prevent malicious players from rejoining a server where they're being banned on with their previous name.
 

User avatar
LRV
Member
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 17:29
In-game: Mooncarman Moonvehicleman LunarRovingVehicle LRV Mooncarguy

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by LRV » Fri Mar 23, 2018 17:40

Banning is mean. Most players do not even know why they were banned. The problem with banning is that the player just gets accsess denied without any specific infos what happened. A jail system could remove that.
LRV wrote:
LRV wrote:I got another food mod xtraarmor, of course a customleather item needs to be added, but the chainmaila nd leather armor would be pretty fitting.

Why is there food in my sentence? XD

Why didn't my siganture show up completly til' I did that?
 

lightseer
Member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 16:18

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by lightseer » Fri Mar 23, 2018 18:18

Banning is tough, but all of the servers I have played on cost me nothing. I do not feel I can complain. If I were paying then that would be different.
 

sofar
Developer
 
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 07:31
GitHub: sofar
IRC: sofar
In-game: sofar

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by sofar » Fri Mar 23, 2018 18:51

LRV wrote:Most players do not even know why they were banned.


This is very naive.

Players don't have a right to be allowed access to a server. That is a privilege, and losing the privilege does not entitle you to an explanation.
 

User avatar
Kibbie
Member
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 20:48
IRC: Kibbie
In-game: Kibbie IOKA

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Kibbie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 19:01

Mineminer wrote:
As for those who says "it's my so..." that's only half the truth. The rest? is the MARKET. If you don't provision a service that people enjoy? Guess what? Yea no more donation cash for you.


Image
Attachments
2707o9.jpg
(33.87 KiB) Not downloaded yet
 

Shara
Moderator
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 15:18
GitHub: ezhh
IRC: Shara

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Shara » Fri Mar 23, 2018 21:21

LRV wrote:Banning is mean. Most players do not even know why they were banned. The problem with banning is that the player just gets accsess denied without any specific infos what happened. A jail system could remove that.


Ban mods require you to type a ban reason when you ban someone... From what I recall of testing, you then see that reason if you try to sign back in.

As for it being mean... if someone joins my server to threaten and insult one of my players, and I jail them, then after some time I let them free, and they do it again, so I jail them again, then let them free again, then they do it again... How many times should this continue? And while this is going on, the victimised player gets scared/upset/angry at being attacked so many times and so quits my server forever? But it's okay that I failed at protecting them or keeping them as a player, because I managed to not ban anyone?

I think you'll find the reality is that by not banning when you should, you can actually have been very mean indeed to some of your most vulnerable players who might actually need (and deserve) protection.


lightseer wrote:Banning is tough, but all of the servers I have played on cost me nothing. I do not feel I can complain. If I were paying then that would be different.


Even if you are paying for a service, you still need to follow the rules. Paying to play on a game server, wouldn't give you the right to sign in and endlessly spam inappropriate content in chat, for example. The other players would also be paying, and would expect to get an environment that matches the rules/terms of service. Once again, failure to deal with the troublesome player can have consequences far worse than a ban.

Of course if you keep the rules, or maybe just make occasional very small deviations, getting banned with no warning would be bad (or even "mean") - but in my opinion that applies whether you are paying or not.
 

redblade7
Member
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 07:14
IRC: redneonglow redblade7
In-game: redblade7 redblade7_owner

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by redblade7 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 21:42

I have been a bit extreme with bans and rollbacks in the past but these days I give regular players who don't usually cause damage a yelling at. But new players on the servers who do pit griefing, water griefing, and lava griefing are automatic bans. It's just way too much work to fix sometimes, especially on my creative server where you want the ability to allow good players to make ponds, pools, and sewer systems but not flood the spawn area and other major landmarks. The rules are clearly listed on signs at the spawn area.

Because of the noreasters earlier this month I was without power (which includes running water here, which depends on an electric well on your property, you may be familiar with the Gasland movies) for a week, so I moved in with family who had power and a public water utility, but they were having unrelated Internet problems that had to be fixed, so I wasn't able to log in and check until I moved back home and everything was settled.

When I checked Creative Gardens before going to bed at 5 AM, the whole server was so destroyed with water that I was up until 10 AM rolling back damage and banning like 5-6 people. Server owners have a responsibility to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen, and while they shouldn't be as overly strict with permanent bans like I once was, sometimes there is a need.
-redblade7, admin of: THE CREATIVE GARDENS (creative), THE VALLEYS (sandbox), and THE DIGITAL FARMS (farming/hunger/shops)
 

User avatar
ExeterDad
Member
 
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 20:00
Location: New Hampshire U.S.A
In-game: ExeterDad

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by ExeterDad » Fri Mar 23, 2018 22:23

Running a server and forbidding players from joining isn't much different than real life.

Everyone is free to come over to my house and play. The more the merrier.
But if you're gonna break my toys, trash my house so I'm up all night trying to clean it. Or you're making myself or my friends miserable, you're going to lose every time. You'll be out the front door so fast there will be no risk of the door hitting your "you know what" on the way out.

That's just the way it goes. If you don't like it, go play with someone else's toys. Or buy your own.
 

User avatar
Kibbie
Member
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 20:48
IRC: Kibbie
In-game: Kibbie IOKA

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Kibbie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 22:51

This is very simple.

Minetest is made by developers and contributors who volunteer their time, enhanced by modders who volunteer their time, and populated by servers offering a free world for players - usually at the personal expense of the server owner/admin.

ExeterDad and I pay every month for a dedicated hosting service for our server, and in addition we choose to make a very small monthly donation to one of the developers because we appreciate his work. In other words - like many other server owners - we actually pay money from our own pockets to provide a server for players to play on, and don't receive any kind of compensation in return...nor do we ask for it. Most servers require countless hours of monitoring, enhancing, accommodating, updating, repairing, trouble shooting, refereeing, and TLC from admins and moderators. All volunteer work.

So how, exactly, are server staff hurting the market by enforcing rules and banning players who don't follow them? Just don't be a jackhole and you are welcome to partake of the free services being provided for your enjoyment.
 

redblade7
Member
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 07:14
IRC: redneonglow redblade7
In-game: redblade7 redblade7_owner

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by redblade7 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 00:01

Linuxdirk wrote:
rubenwardy wrote:No, one can be done in a second whereas the other usually requires money for a VPN, a router switch off, or time for be the IP to change

Or logging in to the router and click reboot.


You have to change the router's MAC though
-redblade7, admin of: THE CREATIVE GARDENS (creative), THE VALLEYS (sandbox), and THE DIGITAL FARMS (farming/hunger/shops)
 

redblade7
Member
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 07:14
IRC: redneonglow redblade7
In-game: redblade7 redblade7_owner

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by redblade7 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 00:02

Just an off-topic note that if you type #AntiBanMovement into Twitter you get two Tweets, one on golf and one on abortion.

With #ProBanMovement you get nothing at all.
-redblade7, admin of: THE CREATIVE GARDENS (creative), THE VALLEYS (sandbox), and THE DIGITAL FARMS (farming/hunger/shops)
 

lightseer
Member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 16:18

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by lightseer » Sat Mar 24, 2018 03:05

Shara wrote:....

Even if you are paying for a service, you still need to follow the rules. Paying to play on a game server, wouldn't give you the right to sign in and endlessly spam inappropriate content in chat, for example. The other players would also be paying, and would expect to get an environment that matches the rules/terms of service. Once again, failure to deal with the troublesome player can have consequences far worse than a ban.

Of course if you keep the rules, or maybe just make occasional very small deviations, getting banned with no warning would be bad (or even "mean") - but in my opinion that applies whether you are paying or not.
I like your reply.
 

User avatar
Lone_Wolf
Member
 
Posts: 2186
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 05:50
Location: Hopefully very far from yours, snoop :P
GitHub: LoneWolfHT
IRC: Lone_Wolf
In-game: Lone_Wolf

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Lone_Wolf » Sat Mar 24, 2018 06:22

I think everyone has overwhelmed him with replies. I don't see any answers...
 

IanniPowerup!!!
Member
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 17:33
In-game: IanniPowerup

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by IanniPowerup!!! » Sat Mar 24, 2018 08:46

Lone_Wolf wrote:I think everyone has overwhelmed him with replies. I don't see any answers...


if i reply i'll repeat myself , the paragraph is clear
 

User avatar
ANAND
Member
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:54
Location: India
GitHub: ClobberXD
IRC: ANAND ClobberXD
In-game: ANAND ClobberXD [A-Za-z0-9-_]Tomato

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by ANAND » Sat Mar 24, 2018 08:53

IanniPowerup!!! wrote:As u all know there's only 1 popular way of dealing with players that don't fit in . And that's banning , either temporarelly either permanently . Most of us know it's wrong , you shouldn't keep a player from playing in the server . And totally NOT abuse your power as an admin/mod/helper against someone u dissgree with or don't like .


Virtually all admins and moderators issue numerous warnings first, then kick, then temp-ban for varied durations, and finally perma-ban - of course this will vary based on the severity of the misdeed. As a player, you are generally showed the rules right when you join - failure to adhere to those will result in disciplinary action. Why did you even agree to the rules if you do not actually think they are fair and just? Are you referring to any specific server? If yes, would you mind specifying which?

IanniPowerup!!! wrote:My BEST choise for bad players is a jail system , it's easy to make and it isn't banning , the player still gets to log in , but do community work or only live in a space . It's so simple : Revoke the interact , shout and spawn priv and put someone in jail for 3 weeks . This way you are not banning and the server has actually a working system .


Such measures are not ideal for every Minetest server out there - For example, PvP servers like CaptureTheFlag and SkyWars, neither the jail nor the revoked privs can be implemented - most servers which can accommodate such 'punishments' have already implemented them anyways. Also, if a player does not even have fundamental privs like interact and shout, why do they even need to join and use up precious server resources? Such partial consequences furthermore induce unnecessary complications like the ones rubenwardy mentioned...

I'm sure numerous other players share your concern too - but no #AntiBanMove sorry. You just have a half-baked knowledge with respect to Minetest and multiplayer gaming servers in general. Please understand the big-picture and the admin's point of view, before starting such volatile discussions. Respect the rules - you have to abide by them if you wish to stay.

P.S. If the admins were actually misusing their powers (which is obviously not the case), you could never even join any of the well-known Minetest servers in the foreseeable future... :)
Last edited by ANAND on Sat Mar 24, 2018 13:20, edited 2 times in total.
 

Gundul
Member
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:55
Location: Europe/Asia
GitHub: berengma
IRC: Gundul

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Gundul » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:33

I can just recommend what ExeterDad and Kibbie wrote a few posts before this one. Read it very carefully there is nothing to add. Like Kibbie said: "It is really simple"
My servers: Jungle, Lilly in the valley, ZombieTest
 

Chem871
Member
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 21:49
Location: SCP-2935
GitHub: Chemguy99
In-game: Dwaba_Kukai

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Chem871 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 13:37

Basically, "my world, my rules". Like it, or you get the boot.
What is SCP-055 again? I forgot.
 

IhrFussel
Member
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:54
GitHub: IhrFussel
IRC: IhrFussel
In-game: IhrFussel

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by IhrFussel » Sat Mar 24, 2018 22:23

Chem871 wrote:Basically, "my world, my rules". Like it, or you get the boot.


This attitude is exactly what I dislike about many server owners.

They act like they would be gods on their server and expect you to follow rules that are partly ridiculous, while breaking their own rules without punishing themselves.

Luckily there are a few fair server owners who don't act like assholes and treat their players well...

I myself don't like banning players for tiny things.

On my server we have created a penalty system called "Bad Score". If players break rules they will receive Bad Points (the exact amount depends on the rule they broke) and only if they got a certain amount the server will temp ban them. After a few temp bans they are banned forever. This system works very well and less than 1% of active players have Bad Points.
 

sofar
Developer
 
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 07:31
GitHub: sofar
IRC: sofar
In-game: sofar

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by sofar » Sun Mar 25, 2018 00:04

IhrFussel wrote:This attitude is exactly what I dislike about many server owners.

They act like they would be gods on their server and expect you to follow rules that are partly ridiculous, while breaking their own rules without punishing themselves.

Luckily there are a few fair server owners who don't act like assholes and treat their players well....


Only a few? I think you're just making up statistics now.

I'll admit there's some drama servers around, but I don't think you have any significant data to prove that the majority of servers owners are, as you call them, assholes.
 

Coder12
Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 00:15
Location: CTF server
GitHub: Coder12a
IRC: Coder12
In-game: Bob12

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Coder12 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 00:15

I think this topic should be locked because its pretty much a fight on the forum by now.
 

User avatar
ANAND
Member
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:54
Location: India
GitHub: ClobberXD
IRC: ANAND ClobberXD
In-game: ANAND ClobberXD [A-Za-z0-9-_]Tomato

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by ANAND » Sun Mar 25, 2018 05:19

While I don't expect a reply from the OP for obvious reasons, I hope he has understood what we all wanted him to...
 

IhrFussel
Member
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:54
GitHub: IhrFussel
IRC: IhrFussel
In-game: IhrFussel

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by IhrFussel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 13:05

sofar wrote:
IhrFussel wrote:This attitude is exactly what I dislike about many server owners.

They act like they would be gods on their server and expect you to follow rules that are partly ridiculous, while breaking their own rules without punishing themselves.

Luckily there are a few fair server owners who don't act like assholes and treat their players well....


Only a few? I think you're just making up statistics now.

I'll admit there's some drama servers around, but I don't think you have any significant data to prove that the majority of servers owners are, as you call them, assholes.


Let me rephrase my sentence: There are a few serious server owners who don't act like assholes and treat their players well.

I think you will agree that lots of servers are not serious enough to even think about them (run by kids, run on home PC and only available a few hours per day, minetesthosting free servers etc).

From what I heard/experienced many server admins actually fully apply this "can do whatever the heck they want" attitude.
 

User avatar
Kibbie
Member
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 20:48
IRC: Kibbie
In-game: Kibbie IOKA

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by Kibbie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 14:53

Maikerumine, Lag, Sofar, Rubenwardy, Sorcerykid, 843jdc, SakeL, ThomasMonroe... all good admins (past or present) who are fair and treat players well. I know there are more, but this list was off the top of my head.
 

User avatar
GoldFireUn
Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 13:30
Location: Wisconsin, USA
GitHub: BluebirdGreycoat
In-game: GoldFireUn

Re: Stop Banning People | The Anti-Ban Movement #AntiBanMove

by GoldFireUn » Sun Mar 25, 2018 17:27

run on home PC


Must Test spent its first year being run on a home laptop. It is also a serious server. Just saying.

I suspect that running a server at home is actually harder than hosting one remotely, because of having to deal with router configs. One wrong command and next thing you know, the parents are yelling about no internet access. — Not that I would know anything about it, in general.
 

PreviousNext

Return to Servers



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests