[Server] VanessaE's Survival Server [5.1.0-dev]

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Inocudom
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by Inocudom » Mon Sep 23, 2013 00:47

If the two maps are combined, then there would need to be two player classes. Creative mode players would have to be incapable of dropping anything or putting anything in a chest.

Survival mode players would work as normal, though they should not be able to build in the creative zone, nor should creative players be able to build in the survival zone.

Once a player decides to be creative or survival, the decision should be permanent for all eternity.
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by twoelk » Mon Sep 23, 2013 00:51

woa Inocudom ist that satirical or sarcastic? I don't think eternity applies to anythng connected with Minetest, except for the waiting for the next stable release of course.
 

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by Inocudom » Mon Sep 23, 2013 01:01

Eternity in the sense that the players can't change their minds once they decide. Keeps cheating down.
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by twoelk » Mon Sep 23, 2013 01:33

From the technical side I think this project is rather exciting
- but -
from the gameplay side I really don't know and feel somewhat uneasy.

Survival and Creative are very different concepts. In creative mode you get, among other builds, resource expensiv experiments, proof of concept builds and large carefully designed builds in the best material available. In survival mode you spend most of the time hunting or mining for resources and you build from what you get, so you get more cobblestone buildings and less color with most builders. Having played a little on other servers, survival seems to boost more interaction between the players - in good and bad senses. People help each other more but resources also become more valueable and tempting to be stolen or hoarded.
One reason for the street material used on survival for example was that it was cheap and not much worth stealing.

I would have never build some of the stuff on creative if I had had to mine the stuff first. On the other hand survival has forced me to pay more attention to the machinery in technic. I still favor some zoning concept as I have great difficulties to decide for one version. I want to build all over the place whenever I find interresting scenery or interact with anyone I fancy for the given moment and not be forced to stay in my zone and play with my people just beeing a tourist in the other zone. The nations part is one of the things I have difficulties on Waterworld with. I don't want to build on my given plot, I want to build whenever the landscape suggests it to me.

Maybe the creative world could be surrounded by some wide body of water as an island in a large lake. Some customs post at the ferry could force you to empty your inventory when crossing the water. Cleaning water as an clear-objects-in-my-pockets zone. Haven't got a clue how this could be coded though.

As I said above, I think this may be an interesting and usefull project but I deffinitly don't like the having to decide for a fraction suggestion. Sorry Inocudom, though a classes mod as such might be quite usefull.
 

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by LazyJ » Mon Sep 23, 2013 16:19

twoelk wrote:...Survival and Creative are very different concepts. In creative mode you get, among other builds, resource expensiv experiments, proof of concept builds and large carefully designed builds in the best material available. In survival mode you spend most of the time hunting or mining for resources and you build from what you get, so you get more cobblestone buildings and less color with most builders.


I agree with twoelk.

I enjoy coming to the Creative server, when I can, because of the unlimited access to materials and the creative builds. One way to look at low player volume is to see it as less griefers and less admin hassles. A handful of well behaved, creative builders is more enjoyable to have around than having to police a horde of marauders day after day.

That said, Vanessa is the one who has the maintenance headaches that come with operating a server, and if combining the two servers would reduce the maintenance work load for her, then that would be the practical thing to do.
 

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by aracnus » Mon Sep 23, 2013 22:10

twoelk wrote:From the technical side I think this project is rather exciting
- but -
from the gameplay side I really don't know and feel somewhat uneasy.
.........
Maybe the creative world could be surrounded by some wide body of water as an island in a large lake. Some customs post at the ferry could force you to empty your inventory when crossing the water. Cleaning water as an clear-objects-in-my-pockets zone. Haven't got a clue how this could be coded though.


I agree with all twoelk words. And inspired by this part, I was thinking if was possible to surround the creative area with invisible blocks that don't allow anyone in and out. Then make a portal (like the travelnet) that clears user's inventory when he/she pass through. This way, we could have the merge, it would have little visual impact (because of the transparency) and will prevent griefers from destroy creative buildings.

But the great question is: is that possible? :-)
 

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Dan Duncombe
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by Dan Duncombe » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:02

Can you set this as my skin please? Thanks.
Image
EDIT: How it looks...
Image
Last edited by Dan Duncombe on Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
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by Rancon » Tue Sep 24, 2013 22:01

aracnus wrote:
twoelk wrote:From the technical side I think this project is rather exciting
- but -
from the gameplay side I really don't know and feel somewhat uneasy.
.........
Maybe the creative world could be surrounded by some wide body of water as an island in a large lake. Some customs post at the ferry could force you to empty your inventory when crossing the water. Cleaning water as an clear-objects-in-my-pockets zone. Haven't got a clue how this could be coded though.


I agree with all twoelk words. And inspired by this part, I was thinking if was possible to surround the creative area with invisible blocks that don't allow anyone in and out. Then make a portal (like the travelnet) that clears user's inventory when he/she pass through. This way, we could have the merge, it would have little visual impact (because of the transparency) and will prevent griefers from destroy creative buildings.

But the great question is: is that possible? :-)

From what I've seen on other mods, probably. Make sure it is VVVEEEERRRY far from spawn.. possibly attempt to compile a version where the blocks go past 31000
Any tips on blender, gimp, or codea?
 

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by VanessaE » Wed Sep 25, 2013 00:46

Skin installed for Dan.

Rancon, that would be impossible as that is a fundamental limit of the engine. It's more than sufficient to separate the maps by few kilometers.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

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by Dan Duncombe » Wed Sep 25, 2013 06:34

VanessaE wrote:Skin installed for Dan..

Thanks
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by Rancon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 22:46

VanessaE wrote:Skin installed for Dan.

Rancon, that would be impossible as that is a fundamental limit of the engine. It's more than sufficient to separate the maps by few kilometers.

Heh :) oops..
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by Michael Eh? » Thu Sep 26, 2013 02:43

I've added a few telnet boxes along Centre Road to save myself and people time walking. Currently there is three; Central (0,x,0), UnderLake (-750,x,0) and intersection of Spawn Road East and South Centre Road. I plan another at the end of Spawn Road East where it would be good site for a town.

UnderLake is good for people to build in that area. I asked Sokomine to build a store there. I plan to build a cafe. No blocking the road or entrance to Lake under Underlake. There is to be road north-south of Underlake which will take time since I'm concentraiting on mob proofing my builds on creative.

One question on the merge... will we own our locked chests and telnet boxes when they are transferred to the new map?
 

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by Michael Eh? » Thu Sep 26, 2013 02:52

Oh yeah... can I get this skin installed... Kirito-kun from Sword Art Online.

Image
 

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by VanessaE » Thu Sep 26, 2013 06:24

Skin installed for MichaelEh.

Ownership of things like chests, doors, etc. will remain unchanged, as I'll be merging the two servers' auth.txt files if I merge the maps.

As an aside, sorry for the downtime tonight. Minor hardware issue required a couple of reboots to sort out.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

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by jojoa1997 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:10

So for the 2 maps. Will we ba able to switch between maps?
Edit:Could you add 0gb.US's more chests mod.
Topic- https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4366
Download(one in post doesn't work so use this) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65428713/chests_0gb_us%20(24-01-2013).zip
Last edited by jojoa1997 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:13, edited 1 time in total.
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by VanessaE » Thu Sep 26, 2013 13:18

No, the server has enough types of chests.

Anyways, if I merge the maps, it'll just be a small matter of walking far enough. They'll be combined into a single, normal world.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

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by jojoa1997 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 16:58

VanessaE wrote:No, the server has enough types of chests.

Anyways, if I merge the maps, it'll just be a small matter of walking far enough. They'll be combined into a single, normal world.
Ah OK. Also just realized that people could put stuff in a WiFi chest in creative and then take it out in survival.
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by VanessaE » Fri Sep 27, 2013 15:00

I've decided it is best to NOT merge the two servers. It occurred to me today that the two are simply too different in nature to merge them.

Meanwhile: Added Blockmen's pyramids mod!
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

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by jojoa1997 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 15:54

VanessaE wrote:I've decided it is best to NOT merge the two servers. It occurred to me today that the two are simply too different in nature to merge them.

Meanwhile: Added Blockmen's pyramids mod!
cool. Now I just need to move one to my desert ranch
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by Rancon » Sat Sep 28, 2013 03:00

VanessaE wrote:I've decided it is best to NOT merge the two servers. It occurred to me today that the two are simply too different in nature to merge them.

Meanwhile: Added Blockmen's pyramids mod!

To both things: YESS!!!
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by twoelk » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:35

OK, this does let me relax a little. I was pretty occupied trying to figure out what I need to do on the creative map befor it goes survival. With that not happening in the near future I can concentrate on other things. (Phew)

I still think the merging of some map Idea most exciting and usefull. I would love to see some non-ingame tool made based on that idea. Some sort of map-database manipulating tool could solve more issues. It could have the following functions:

1. Read all map database versions.
(This should include all Minetest versions and all database backends)

2. Abbility to analyse maps and show all sorts of information and statistics.
(For example: Show seed and other mapgenerating related information. Display maximum extent of the map in all directions including up and down. List of all types of nodes present on the map and maybe a list of all mods needed to display the map correctly. Search for certain nodes and list generating of the results; such as a list of all Travelboxes or Landclaimblocks with coordinates. Search for and analysing of database corruption. ... and much more)

3. Write to all map database versions.
(This should include all Minetest versions and all database backends)

4. Related to above the possability to convert the basic map information between map and database versions.
(Tools to fix corrupted data among others such as clearobjects commands or fix crash related issues or fix import faillures or ...)

5. Tools to import into maps on a large scale
(such as merge maps, import map sections or certain chunks, import data from other formats such as WE schematics or maybe in the future other voxel-world data. To aid this maybe tools to compare maps and their nodes to find conflicts before attempting an import or merge.)

6. Other programs that could be used as plugins and this could supply a frontent to could be the WorldEditor, the MappingTool and the Mount Meru mod among others.

Although this might be the wrong thread I think there is much potential in the map merging experiments and the information should be presented somewhere. Maybe a mapmerging thread should be started to gather more experience all in one location.
Last edited by twoelk on Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:37, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by twoelk » Sat Sep 28, 2013 15:49

I'd like to suggest these two mods:
Bees and beekeeper
Gardening decor

Besides that I wonder if there could be a serveradmin run shop. This could offer things that are not craftable (as in some mods), mining for would destroy the landscape or use is promoted (like certain design of street lamps or such). This would also be a way to extract minegeld from the game and thus some sort of money control system.
 

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by VanessaE » Sat Sep 28, 2013 16:03

As discussed over chat, the two suggested mods have been added.
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)
 

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by twoelk » Sat Sep 28, 2013 16:09

Still like the shop idea as a way to quickly respond to problems and control the game or push it gently into any desired direction.
 

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by Sokomine » Sat Sep 28, 2013 17:48

My suggestion to merge the two maps aimed at making both more accessible without having to reconnect. Seems most people do not like this idea for these particular servers, and thus it's certainly better that they do not get merged. There's no threat of them disappearing soon :-)

The bees mod is a very fine mod. Great that it got added! That gardening mod may also prove decorative.

Regarding the shops, money currently does not work well on this server. It cannot be split small enough to cover items of low value and thus fails as a currency. Valuable items are not sold for money alone because nobody sells anything of real value for money alone. We're on a copper base due to the huge demand for copper that the technic machines have.

The money/shop system on the linuxgaming.us server works far better: It allows to set prices more gradually, has "sources" of income depending on how much you mine (admin-shop buys cobble), and also comes with "sinks" for the money - admin-shops sell items which cannot be found in the world, and plots of land can be bought for high prices.

It would be great to have admin-shops on this server as well. The seed problem got solved nicely - all those plants in the wild look fine - but what could still need some help is clay. It got better with the newer mapgen, but still it would be nicer if we where not forced to destroy ocean beds by digging it up.
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