[Server] Xanadu

4aiman
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Re: Xanadu Server

by 4aiman » Tue Aug 18, 2015 07:10

The thing is, HUD-scaling is *different* for different OSes.
For me those are:
1.0 = Android
0.7 - Linux (Debian)
0.9 - Windows
But that would depend on DPI, I guess.

Xanadu's HUDS work just fine for *any* of my Linux-driven devices/PCs, though. (Linux & Windows)
 

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TenPlus1
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 07:36

On most desktop or laptop systems the hud scaling works fine but the text displays funny on certain android devices and apple products that run the Oooooooold minetest... This is why I'm switching to the goodl old bread and hearts meters we used before as those can be scaled without any trouble...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by 4aiman » Tue Aug 18, 2015 13:00

Actually, there are troubles with those too.
Even old hearts and breads can be treated wrongly depending on MT build and the HW/OS features.

I've a good testing field thanks to my job (~200 PC+notebooks) and can say that HUD scaling depends on OpenGL version and VCard capabilities. It is also important to check the drivers version if we are to speak about Windows XP and Windows 7 (Win8 x64 works just fine in terms of HUD scaling).



I like how you did the HUDs, Ten.

So, instead of reverting to the old way of displaying those,
I'd suggest a slight raise of the minimal protocol version.

IIRC it is set to 13 while current protocol is of version 26.
I think that the version 20 is a reasonable value for min proto.

Just disconnect people and tell them to update their Minetest (Maybe even give them a link? Although it's not possible to click it...).
 

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TenPlus1
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 15:54

4aiman, thing is a few users have minetest 0.4.12 on android and it has text issues already, but for now I'm reverting to the good old classic until 0.4.13 is out and THEN I can force updates...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by 4aiman » Wed Aug 19, 2015 08:05

That was only a suggestion :)

Didn't know about Android users on Xanadu.

BTW, I've found rather difficult to fight using Android client.
Does your server have some android-specific ways to negate the absence of HW controls?
 

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TenPlus1
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 08:49

Server is running latest daily build for linux, controls are default...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by 4aiman » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:34

What I meant was "are there any mods on your server which detect Android-powered clients and make their life a bit easier?" ^_^
 

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TenPlus1
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:40

Sadly no, many of the formspecs on server are tailored to work on pc and android devices though, but nothing specific for each...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by BlueFireIceUn » Thu Aug 20, 2015 08:42

How post screenshots?
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 09:12

Use an image host site like tinypic.com or imgur.com to upload your screenshot and they will supply the web link or [img] link to post below your text...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by mystik » Sat Aug 22, 2015 03:58

I recently discovered that PvP was turned on on Xanadu, with protection from PvP only available on spawn and on areas that you yourself have placed protection blocks, and wanted to offer my humble opinion on the matter.

I've heard some some players claiming the server is "too easy" without PvP. -- I wholly dispute this. PvP tips the balance of power way to far towards established players, and throwaway troll accounts to harass other players. New players, not only new to xanadu, but new to Minetest in general, have a hard enough time getting established, as they deal with hunger & hostile mobs. Now they have to more quickly figure out how to get protection blocks, or get armored, or get bags, and chests on top of everything else they have to discover and learn.

Additionally it's bad enough that mods have to intervene in the petty fights that plague the less mature players. I believe that handing those same players the power to kill another player and loot them will make those fights more intense, and require more mod intervention.

I think one of the most compelling features of Xanadu is the balance of the game, which Ten has carefully managed. It's not a fast paced server, where you always have to be on your guard, there's lots of beautiful terrain and builds to discover and explore, and try your hand at building yourself. There's also just enough to keep track of in terms of character maintenance, such as health, hunger, armaments, mobs etc. I think that PvP makes it far too difficult for players in the early game.

I would like to propose a return to the previous PvP state, and as a compromise, introduce a new block that activates PvP in the same size area as existing protection blocks. I think the Minigames that are occasionally hosted make for a great model, and with a 'PvP' block, we can have bounded off areas where player kills are welcome and supported. I think that this will add a new build aspect -- players can build terrains and fields where folks can host skirmishes, perhaps in groups, and PvP with each other.

When I was an early player, I appreciated that I had the power to control my own risk. I avoided subterranean and other dark areas till I had learned the ropes and was ready to take and engage in those risks. With PvP -- early players need to be in high-risk mode all the time, and I don't think that's what a server like Xanadu is about.

As always, I appreciate the work the server admins + devs put in to keep the server going.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by gmaxwell » Sat Aug 22, 2015 05:45

mystik wrote:I would like to propose a return to the previous PvP state, and as a compromise, introduce a new block that activates PvP in the same size area as existing protection blocks.

How do you propose handling trolls that just drop one of these blocks the moment they want to trouble someone?

I wonder if your concerns couldn't be addressed by simply expanding the spawn like protection to a wider area that incubates new users, without opening the problem I suggested above.

I have no interest in PVP generally, but there have been some people that entered the area I was building in seemingly just to antagonize me, being able to boot them by causing them damage sounds helpful (but it hasn't come up yet).


While I'm posting-- is there any possibility for there to be a regular dump of barter box data-- trade conditions, supply, and location? Perhaps just of barter boxes just in certain regions or ones with a "public" setting on the box (in order to avoid disclosing cleverly hidden ones)? Right now barter boxes are often sold out and it can take an awful lot of work to just find ones with a supply. Prices are also sometimes crazy inconsistent, and people sometimes unintentionally set up wild arbitration games (which probably contributes to boxes frequently being sold out), having some more market transparency would help. A public supply list would also make it possible to construct email alerts that go out when your boxes run low.

I'm sad to lose the new HUD, having numbers was super useful since I knew exactly what to eat to get from x to y from the numbers.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by mystik » Sat Aug 22, 2015 06:13

gmaxwell wrote:
mystik wrote:I would like to propose a return to the previous PvP state, and as a compromise, introduce a new block that activates PvP in the same size area as existing protection blocks.

How do you propose handling trolls that just drop one of these blocks the moment they want to trouble someone?


It could be mitigated by making the PvP block hard to craft (ie, needs advanced items)


gmaxwell wrote:I wonder if your concerns couldn't be addressed by simply expanding the spawn like protection to a wider area that incubates new users, without opening the problem I suggested above.

I have no interest in PVP generally, but there have been some people that entered the area I was building in seemingly just to antagonize me, being able to boot them by causing them damage sounds helpful (but it hasn't come up yet).


Perhaps, but it'd have to be a large + deep enough area that new players could establish a base, and acquire resources to build themselves up.

gmaxwell wrote:While I'm posting-- is there any possibility for there to be a regular dump of barter box data-- trade conditions, supply, and location? Perhaps just of barter boxes just in certain regions or ones with a "public" setting on the box (in order to avoid disclosing cleverly hidden ones)? Right now barter boxes are often sold out and it can take an awful lot of work to just find ones with a supply. Prices are also sometimes crazy inconsistent, and people sometimes unintentionally set up wild arbitration games (which probably contributes to boxes frequently being sold out), having some more market transparency would help. A public supply list would also make it possible to construct email alerts that go out when your boxes run low.


This has been an annoyance for me too -- I've tried to address as best as I personally can by keeping my shops well stocked. me2 also has an excellent shop (through the iron stargate on the green path), with a lot of raw materials. I understand he uses a spreadsheet he maintains offline to value things as well. My shop is slightly closer to spawn than his shop, but I try to use his prices as guidelines for mine. (I don't want folks just carting my stuff to his shop :))

Having a public price list would equal out the market, but there some variation based on convenience (how far from spawn is the shop, etc). The current variability makes it possible to take advantage of arbitrage -- you can just buy from the shop exchanging low, and sell to the shop exchanging high, and pocket the difference.

I've considered a 'commodities market' mod, that functions similar to an actual public exchange, where folks can issue buy/sell orders, or even take positions if they need to acquire a lot of certain blocks for their builds. (With the effects of supply/demand on the price). With all the shops controlled by this market database, such a list would be easy to produce.

If nothing else, it'd make for a fun 'playground' market, especially if the mechanics of a real market could be made to fit inside of Minetest.

Regarding shops on xanadu, If you find an abandoned shop area, and the player hasn't signed on in 6+ months, the admins may entertain a takeover, especially if you ask nicely.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 06:21

Ya know, having a PVP on block sounds like a good idea and I'll definitely look into that...

The HUD was changed to the old-style again as fonts wouldn't scale properly on all setups, mostly android devices...

If you find a protected area owned by a player who was banned or hasn't been online for 6 months or more let me know, we host Wrecking Crews where players get to remove the builds after I take out protection :)
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by Kelena » Sat Aug 22, 2015 06:38

What about an admin pvp block? That way only admins can add arenas or something like that and trolls won't be able to attack everybody everywhere?
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Re: Xanadu Server

by DuDraig » Sat Aug 22, 2015 08:10

I'm probably going to get flamed by knee-jerkers here but I have to say my piece on this at least once.

Please remove all PvP from Xanadu.

Xanadu is one of the best PvE servers to date with updates that further stabilize and improve the challenge and entertainment value. It successfully encourages inspired building projects and group cooperation unlike most servers. It is noob friendly despite being a dangerous and challenging environment.

Minetest is not designed for nor does it effectively support a PvP system. The variables are too few and too simple to provide challenging player battles, especially for the defender. If your armor and arms are better, you win.

This can be seen on other PvP Minetest servers. Noobs are regularly ambushed by kids looking for easy looting or just to be cruel. Mine and ranch griefing are rampant, group ambushes become common, and kids use PvP to attack and harass anyone who disagrees with them in chat.

Minetest is just not designed to support PvP and it should not be enabled. One of the main reasons I and some others chose to play on this server is because it was not PvP. There is no good reason to have it in Minetest and an endless avalanche of headaches and troubles to not have it.

There are many other ways that Xanadu can be made more challenging given the great diversity of biomes and ores. No matter what you do, the generosity of the current established players will always make things much easier for newer players. I've avoided this generosity in order to take on the challenge of Xanadu on my own and have enjoyed finding different ways to overcome many obstacles. There are still things moderators do that I can't avoid: like whoever keeps automatically turning dusk into dawn avoiding night time altogether. Since things are far more dangerous outside at night, stopping that practice would immediately make things much more challenging. I spent a lot of time and resources lighting up my area and roads to specifically deal with night dangers only to see night eliminated most of the time.

So I'm asking for reason to prevail for one of the few bastions of entertaining play, inspired building, and a friendly community. Learn the lessons from the other PvP servers, think about how the Minetest system just does not have the complexity to support this, and remove all PvP from Xanadu.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 09:39

DuDraig: PVP is enabled yes but players cannot be hurt inside protected areas, only the owner of such area can hurt other players which in turn stops trolls and griefers from entering their builds uninvited... Spawn is also protected so that noobs will not be bullied straight away as are the teleport areas and stargates...

It's an additional challenge to the server yes, but a limited one with the use of protection to stop mindless killing... If you are being chased then simple run towards someone's protected build and you will be in a safe zone, or if out in the middle of no-where, carry a protector with you just incase...

I appreciate everyone that builds on server and some amazing creations have been made so far (check previous screenshots on forum) and we do have trusted players to hand who will help out if things start to look bad, not just admin...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by firefox » Sat Aug 22, 2015 13:41

oh what great news i see! i totally support this!
and i also like the PvP block idea.

so if i build a PvP arena, i have to protect the outside walls, but the battle ground must be outside the protectors area, so that everyone can use it.

i will make the Underworld Arena in Utgard and the Aether Arena in Uranos Domain above Gaia Tower.
moe~
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Re: Xanadu Server

by mystik » Sat Aug 22, 2015 13:58

TenPlus1 wrote:DuDraig: PVP is enabled yes but players cannot be hurt inside protected areas, only the owner of such area can hurt other players which in turn stops trolls and griefers from entering their builds uninvited... Spawn is also protected so that noobs will not be bullied straight away as are the teleport areas and stargates...


I think that's a subtle difference I missed. You're saying *everyone* is protected from damage inside a protected area? and only the Protection owner can strike inside that are? (I thought only the owner had protection) How about other names on protection? What part of your avatar must be inside the zone? Consider Public farms that will typically have a 1-node layer so folks can pull crops, but not damage the surrounding structure. Are they vulnerable if they're standing in a public farm?

If this is to be the norm, I think the starter kit needs to include an iron sword, and perhaps even some starter armor. Or at least a "It's dangerous to go alone" hut handing out armaments for cheap.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 08:46

Player position is taken from foot level, so where you stand has to be protected... In tree farms and public farms the dirt and below is protected but the crops are not, so you can be hurt there, as for other player names on the protector, only those listed on a protector can deal damage in that area so be careful who you add...

We tried adding starter kits before by giving people tools and swords and they instantly used them to attack other players, so Xanadu will remain a survival server and it's up to the players to gain experience, tools and protect themselves and their builds...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by Kelena » Mon Aug 24, 2015 09:41

Ok so Today I,was chasing Hellossss for killing everybody including me and we started at the pine tree forest at noob area, but for some reason he wasn't able to attack me, I know that iska added me to his prots below the forest (for another reason) that covers the dirt and not the node where the saplings are placed. So how does the protection works? Am I safe standing above the last protected node? I was able to attack him maybe because iska's protections.
Thankies :P
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Re: Xanadu Server

by TenPlus1 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:51

So long as you are standing within a protected area no-one can attack you unless they are listed on the protector node...
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by iska » Tue Aug 25, 2015 05:32

Crashes... I have been playing less after 0.4.13 but it feels like crashes are coming even more often than before, is it true. I havent seen over 2000 second uptime after 0.4.13 (thats half an hour).
I just lost my tools and rest of the inventory as I was moving stuff from protected chest with the all button and removing the chest after at the time we got rolled back to.
 

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Re: Xanadu Server

by Phiwari123 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 06:13

So it goes on like this? Yesterday evening was very annoying. One crash followed the next, i logged in, continued with my building - crash. I thought, okay, lets do stuff that got lost in rollback again - crash, everything gone again. Also i traded with a friend before a crash happened - after the crash the trade was "undone" but the items we exchanged weren't in our own chests anymore either. I feel too like 0.4.13 made crashes even more likely to happen. Is there any idea from the devs yet, what could be the trigger for these crashes? Also i get Error-Messages in-game more than once per hour saying things like "DeSerialization[...] can't read all characters" and other stuff. That didn't happen before i used 0.4.13.
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Re: Xanadu Server

by Bonny » Tue Aug 25, 2015 06:14

iska wrote:Crashes... I have been playing less after 0.4.13 but it feels like crashes are coming even more often than before, is it true. I havent seen over 2000 second uptime after 0.4.13 (thats half an hour).
I just lost my tools and rest of the inventory as I was moving stuff from protected chest with the all button and removing the chest after at the time we got rolled back to.

Yep happened with me also, i took some wood out of my chest then server crashed, got back and wood was nowhere to be found after rollback, not in chest nor in my inventory.
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