[mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

And what is the error message? Can you please copy it here?
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by HighPopes » Post

It's slow to generate the map. I checked debug: just a few undeclared variable errors, see dir and alt. There was a 'can't grab block' error as well. They never give good info on those. I had under utils enabled and the default bare min required for it.
+ Spoiler
Could the png errors be slowing the map generator down or is it just a slow device problem?
--
They might have the utils/uchu enabled. It requires a few different mods. Technic, advtrains, mobs (mobs redo), mob_animal, and ethereal I think. I'm using the technic plus mod pack and I can confirm uchu works with it.

The alt variable locations are in the spoiler. Maybe getting that error out of the thread speeds it up a bit idk. I'm on a phone, its probably just my device. 62 biomes and alot of blocks is a bit much to handle.

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by ThorfinnS » Post

That first warning in your list, "advtrains", is the same reason (though not the same mod) that I started looking more at the global/local conflicts. Lots of mods run into this when checking for other installed mods, and so far, every time it's been resolvable by declaring it explicitly local. The dependencies problems disappear as well.

No idea what changed. Maybe there's more rigorous scoping in the new release? *Shrug*

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

HighPopes wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 19:57
I checked debug: just a few undeclared variable errors, see dir and alt.
I already fixed that but it's not in a stable release yet.
HighPopes wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 19:57
There was a 'can't grab block' error as well. They never give good info on those.
I don't know why these occur. They just occur randomly when mapgen takes a lot of time.
HighPopes wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 19:57
Could the png errors be slowing the map generator down or is it just a slow device problem?
These png errors are invoked by creating textures. This process runs independently on mapgen.
HighPopes wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 19:57
They might have the utils/uchu enabled. It requires a few different mods. Technic, advtrains, mobs (mobs redo), mob_animal, and ethereal I think. I'm using the technic plus mod pack and I can confirm uchu works with it.
Thanks for confirmation.
HighPopes wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 19:57
Maybe getting that error out of the thread speeds it up a bit idk. I'm on a phone, its probably just my device. 62 biomes and alot of blocks is a bit much to handle.
Well, the mapgen has to pass all the nodes, change the stone type accordingly and add decorations. Using biomegen could speed it up but it doesn't support 3D biome noise. So within one layer, the biome would not change at all while digging straightly down. Mapgen mods have performance issues in general.
ThorfinnS wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 20:17
That first warning in your list, "advtrains", is the same reason (though not the same mod) that I started looking more at the global/local conflicts. Lots of mods run into this when checking for other installed mods, and so far, every time it's been resolvable by declaring it explicitly local. The dependencies problems disappear as well.
I can fix that by not testing if global variable advtrains exists but by testing if the mod is loaded.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Elektrika » Post

This is the error set I get.2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "carts" has unsatisfied dependencies: "player_api" "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "3d_armor" has unsatisfied dependencies: "ethereal" "default" "fire"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "3d_armor_ip" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "3d_armor_sfinv" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "3d_armor_stand" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "3d_armor_ui" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "shields" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor" "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "wieldview" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "stairs" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "biome_lib" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "bucket" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "cave_explorer" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "ethereal" has unsatisfied dependencies: "flowers" "doors" "default" "moreblocks" "stairs"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "fire" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "fire_plus" has unsatisfied dependencies: "fire"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "flowers" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "moreblocks" has unsatisfied dependencies: "stairs" "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "moreores" has unsatisfied dependencies: "carts" "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "moretrees" has unsatisfied dependencies: "stairs" "moreblocks" "vessels" "default" "biome_lib"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "underch" has unsatisfied dependencies: "bucket" "moreblocks" "flowers" "fire" "walls" "default" "stairs" "xtraores" "moreores"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "walls" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "xpanes" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"
2020-10-02 15:30:27: ERROR[Main]: mod "xtraores" has unsatisfied dependencies: "3d_armor"
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

It looks like you removed the mod "default" from your Minetest Game. Other mods can't find it also.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Elektrika » Post

No, default was enabled so it isn't that
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

Do you have any explanation why many other mods can't find the mod default also? Try re-installing MTG.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by HighPopes » Post

I did a few edits to techage and am now having a fun time exploring caves and teching up.
This is the only cave mod I found that actually seems to work. I can now build the techage melting pot in layers of different cobble. Having a group:cobble was a great idea. It made the edits simple. This is a great mod pack.

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by ThorfinnS » Post

HighPopes, if you see an "Undeclared global variable" warning, and the warning is about some mod name, in my experience with the new release, that's always had something to do with code to support that mod, and always thrown dependency errors in other mods. Can't say I've ever seen "default" pop up, but it might have and I just never noticed, knowing I had to fix the Undeclared warning first.

If I were including "advtrains", and had not already patched underch myself, I'm pretty sure I'd get that message, and a whole slew of dependency issues. Maybe a different order, but the same basic format.

Hume2 is correct about the graphics. For whatever reason, the new format for .PNGs is not supported in irrlicht or whatever. Editors like GIMP will definitely throw the error. If you want the errors to go away, load each graphic in an older editor (I use an ancient program called Ultimate Paint) and just save it.

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

HighPopes wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 20:18
I did a few edits to techage and am now having a fun time exploring caves and teching up.
This is the only cave mod I found that actually seems to work. I can now build the techage melting pot in layers of different cobble. Having a group:cobble was a great idea. It made the edits simple. This is a great mod pack.
Thank you!
ThorfinnS wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 20:37
If I were including "advtrains", and had not already patched underch myself, I'm pretty sure I'd get that message, and a whole slew of dependency issues. Maybe a different order, but the same basic format.
Can you please explain me how this can cause that many mods can't find the mod default?
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by LMD » Post

Well, if you have default = false or something, it should probably be local, else it overrides default...
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by ThorfinnS » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 13:57
Can you please explain me how this can cause that many mods can't find the mod default?
LUA's default for some stupid reason is global scope of variables. Yet for security reasons, minetest is striving to prevent people from setting these global variables which could interfere with other mods.

My hypothesis is that something in the engine code was tightened up to prevent mods from creating global variables. Variables which in earlier versions worked properly, as they were allowed, but discouraged. But if the engine now prevents you from creating the global variable (say, "dirs" or "alt" in [underch]) then code that worked before will no longer set that global. In fact, it's not set at all. Thus the message about "undeclared global".

Do I know what changed, specifically? No, but I can demonstrate it, and so can you. Change [underch]'s declarations to local, as I did, and the warnings and dependency errors disappear. The other mods now function properly. Or load the same modlist into an earlier version of minetest and they also work. I assume that means something changed in the minetest code, since the mod code and mod list is identical.

How could that affect [default]? I have no idea. But I also have no idea how it affected [cucina_vegana] or any of the others, and yet here we are. Play by the scope rules they have been talking about in the Modding Discussion forum for quite some time, and things start working again.

If I cared enough to know what specifically changed, I'd check to see whether there's been a change in how namespace for globals is allocated.

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

ThorfinnS wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 18:38
How could that affect [default]? I have no idea. But I also have no idea how it affected [cucina_vegana] or any of the others, and yet here we are. Play by the scope rules they have been talking about in the Modding Discussion forum for quite some time, and things start working again.

If I cared enough to know what specifically changed, I'd check to see whether there's been a change in how namespace for globals is allocated.
Thanks for explanation but that means that it's a bug. If declaring/accessing global variables was forbidden, Minetest should fail at that point and it shouldn't throw obscure errors with missing dependencies.

Does that also mean that a mod can't have its own global variables which can be accessed by other mods? That would make all framework mods completely useless because the methods they provide could be no longer used by other mods.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by ThorfinnS » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 19:03
Thanks for explanation but that means that it's a bug. If declaring/accessing global variables was forbidden, Minetest should fail at that point and it shouldn't throw obscure errors with missing dependencies.
It's not a fatal error, but it does throw the warning at time of declaration. Or attempted declaration, as it were.
Does that also mean that a mod can't have its own global variables which can be accessed by other mods? That would make all framework mods completely useless because the methods they provide could be no longer used by other mods.
I'd agree with you there. For example, it would be nice if your [uchu] could access variables set in [underch].

It looks to me as if methods remain the same they were. You can call other mods' APIs just fine. We have one that grows marram grass that uses all the methods from [farming (redo)], and it's working fine. But you can't "accidentally" change variables that mod uses. You can still pull a Bobby Tables, of course, if the mod doesn't properly sanitize inputs...

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

As far as I know, it should work like this:

Code: Select all

--assume that foo1, foo2, foo3 aren't declared.
foo1 = 5 --OK (Creating a new global variable. And I can access it from other mods.)

function bar()
    foo2 = 5 --WRONG (The variable is no longer relevant after the function terminates.)
end

if foo3 then --??? (I thought that it's OK also but now it turns out that it's not.)

end
I hope that it's just a misunderstandment and the case with foo1 still works. And I do use variables from underch in uchu. I don't overwrite them though. In Lua, functions also act like variables. So I'd expect that anything that works with functions should work with variables and vice-versa (except you can't call a variable, etc. :D).
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by ThorfinnS » Post

It's entirely possible that I misunderstood the discussion. In my understanding, they were strongly discouraging use of the style given for foo1, because otherwise it gets to be a hassle trying to keep track of who is using foo1, and because all globals are just stored in a table, that can get huge, fast, even if everyone does respect others' choice in global names. We were encouraged to use locals as much as possible, including functions. Essentially treat things as if it were pretty much any other modern language where the default is local and you have to explicitly define globals, or more to the point, you have a good reason to use a global.

I might have misunderstood, as I said. Though if that were the intent, it might explain the kinds of errors that are being thrown from stuff that worked just last release.

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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

Thanks for explanation. I believe that declaring one global variable in a mod should be fine.
LMD wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 16:20
Well, if you have default = false or something, it should probably be local, else it overrides default...
Sorry for late reaction, I didn't realise what you were talking about. You assume that the code looks like this:

Code: Select all

--a very secret place
default = false

--somewhere else
if not default then
    print("mod default not found") --or anything else to state that the dependency isn't satisfied
end
This is not the case because I don't search for dependencies this way. In the file "depends", I wrote "default". This means, if the mod "default" isn't loaded, Minetest doesn't even try to load this one and throws a dependency error. Even if I didn't do this, the mod "bucket" didn't find "default" also. And since "underch" depends on "bucket", the mod "bucket" has to be loaded before. That means, if it's not an obscure bug of Minetest, it can't be in underch.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Elektrika » Post

Hume2 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:00
Do you have any explanation why many other mods can't find the mod default also? Try re-installing MTG.
I have reinstalled it before, and it still gives me issues. Also, i only get these dependency errors when I apply underch.
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Hume2 » Post

Elektrika wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 14:10
Hume2 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:00
Do you have any explanation why many other mods can't find the mod default also? Try re-installing MTG.
I have reinstalled it before, and it still gives me issues. Also, i only get these dependency errors when I apply underch.
I believe, it's a bug in Minetest. What version do you use?
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by Elektrika » Post

I use 5.2.0
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Re: [mod] 62 underground biomes! [1.1.3] [underch]

by HighPopes » Post

Do you somehow have 2 defaults? Minetest doesn't seem to like multiples of the same mod.

Try enabling default in the world.md config file. It's in your worlds folder of minetest. Look for load_mod_default = false and change it to true. If it is in the world file you might have a second default mod installed somewhere. Maybe from a game you installed or modpack idk.

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