[Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark]

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Ben
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Fri Aug 28, 2015 16:34

Don wrote:I have thirsty mod installed with this. The sanity bar is hidden by the thirsty bar. I tried it with better hud and it made the thirsty bar hidden by sanity bar.

Edit - If you set your x offset to -262 then it works. I have armor, thirst and hunger and they all work fine.


Yeah, that's a problem with HUDs, especially the builtin one. Wuzzy's Hud Bars mod automatically rearranges bars, if you want to try that. Better HUD does need a correct hud.conf to arrange the bars. I've supplied examples with Thirsty and Beware the Dark, both with and without hunger, but you're on your own if you want to combine them, sorry.

If anyone has a good solution for this, I'd be happy to hear it.
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Fri Aug 28, 2015 16:48

FreeLikeGNU wrote:
Ben wrote:"It's not about sanity"

but...
"Darkness kills"


???


Ok, ok, I edited my parts in the quote of your post, sorry ;-)

All I meant was: many ideas seemed to focus on the "sanity" part. Like different effects of sanity loss, and ways to restore sanity, via flowers, or potions, or what not ("seemed", I say: looking back, I think most people just described what the system reminded them of, so my "complaint" may not even be real...)

Instead, I wanted to emphasize that this mod is about the darkness. I had noticed that the current Minetest Game (not other games!) has no mobs by default. I understand this is on purpose, because mobs are "broken" or "unreliable" in some way. So I've been looking for alternative dangers for a survival minetest game without mobs. Specifically, since mobs are what makes darkness dangerous in Minecraft, I built something that would make darkness dangerous without mobs for Minetest.

So though there might be a lot of neat ideas for sanity outside of darkness (e.g. looking at mobs makes you go insane), this mod is not the place for that. That's all I'm trying to say :-P

Sorry about the confusion ;-)
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Thu Sep 03, 2015 20:35

Version 0.3.2 released

One quick bugfix: dead players got their sanity reset, but continued to lose it until they hit the "respawn" button.

(Also: a new version of the persistent_player_attributes mixin with read caching. This is part of my mixin experiment, though, and not generally relevant).
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by FaceDeer » Sun Sep 06, 2015 02:17

I've been pondering ways to set up a nice post-apocalyptic world where the only safety is underground, with an intensely hostile surface world. That "sunburn" angle you're considering for future development seems like an ideal way to help accomplish that, perhaps simulating a world in which the ozone layer's completely gone. Haven't seen discussion of the idea in this thread yet though, what sorts of things did you have in mind for it?
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Sun Sep 06, 2015 18:52

Well, it's simply an inversion of the current "get hurt by darkness" theme. Players in sunlight (light level 15, maybe 14) would lose some kind of buffer attribute (like "sanity" for darkness), and when that runs out, slowly take damage. Not sure how that would be balanced with restoring sanity; "sunburn" is also not high on the priority list :-P

What you might consider is going from "sunlight is lethal" to "the surface is lethal", meaning you'd get hurt just the same during the night. If you're a coder: test for minetest.get_node_light at time 0.5. If that returns 15, it's in the open →damage!
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Mon Sep 07, 2015 19:32

I've been thinking about the sunburn angle some more, and at the moment, I can't see too many players who would have darkness damage and sunlight damage on at the same time. Additionally, I think I'd like to change the damage mechanics for sunlight: if you stand in sunlight, a meter increases, and after it's about half full, you start taking periodic damage proportional to your sunlight meter. So if you hang around til it's full, you'll have a sunburn that takes some time to heal, damaging you all the time.

For this reason, I'm considering not putting sunburns into this mod, but making a new one. If anyone here thinks it would be better to have both in the same mod, let me know ;-)
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Don » Mon Sep 07, 2015 20:04

I think separate mods would be better.
Are you going to check for air for 3 or 4 nodes above? That way you can have bright lights in your house and not get a sunburn. Or is there a better way?
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by FaceDeer » Mon Sep 07, 2015 23:40

Ben wrote:What you might consider is going from "sunlight is lethal" to "the surface is lethal", meaning you'd get hurt just the same during the night.


I was thinking it'd be more fun having a window of opportunity where one can scurry out onto the surface to scavenge and harvest surface-specific materials, then burrow back underground again to hide from the coming of the dawn.

For night time danger there's always monsters. Can't have a post apocalypse without horrible mutants lurking in the shadows. :)
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Don » Mon Sep 07, 2015 23:52

FaceDeer wrote:
Ben wrote:What you might consider is going from "sunlight is lethal" to "the surface is lethal", meaning you'd get hurt just the same during the night.


I was thinking it'd be more fun having a window of opportunity where one can scurry out onto the surface to scavenge and harvest surface-specific materials, then burrow back underground again to hide from the coming of the dawn.

For night time danger there's always monsters. Can't have a post apocalypse without horrible mutants lurking in the shadows. :)

Some Resident Evil mobs would be awesome.
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ferk » Tue Sep 08, 2015 15:19

FaceDeer wrote:For night time danger there's always monsters. Can't have a post apocalypse without horrible mutants lurking in the shadows. :)

I guess there's no reason why that couldn't be the case for daytime as well.

Or you could make the game set a permanent night (set the day speed to 0).. change the skybox to look like a polluted corrupted sky and blame contamination for the permanent darkness.

What would really sell it would be if you were able to change the color of the light the moon gives. But I think that's hardcoded in the engine shaders. Maybe you can set the time on permanent sunset to at least get red tones from the sun.
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Tue Sep 08, 2015 20:40

Alright, separate mod it is! Watch this space (or rather, watch for a new thread in this subforum :-P)!

As for monsters: the actual purpose of Beware the Dark is to compensate for a lack of mobs ;-) But matching night monsters with daylight sunburn could work well – let's try it out.

Don wrote:[…]
Are you going to check for air for 3 or 4 nodes above? That way you can have bright lights in your house and not get a sunburn. Or is there a better way?


Oh, simpler than that: I just check if the player's head is at light level 14 or 15. Default torches are 13 at most, so they're completely safe. Other mods can (and do) add super-lights with strength 14 or 15, but then you'd have to stand in them to get hurt, or at least press your forehead against them. And I think one could justify getting hurt then ;-)
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Don » Tue Sep 08, 2015 22:07

Ben wrote:That went quicker than expected: Sunburn :-D

That was fast. I will try to test it tonight
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by eduardomezencio » Sun Sep 20, 2015 21:33

Could you create a git repository for the mod, please? It's easier to update and to eventually contribute code.

Edit: Well, I see you already have one.. just post the link for it then, please :) And just one more thing (sorry for being an arse and asking so much), but it would also be nice to change tha name of your repo in github to bewarethedark instead of minetest-bewarethedark, so that when the user clones it, the name for the created folder is already correct.
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Mon Sep 21, 2015 20:34

eduardomezencio wrote:Could you create a git repository for the mod, please? […] just post the link for it then, please :)


Ok, it's up! Hope this is the right place to point to.

eduardomezencio wrote:And just one more thing (sorry for being an arse and asking so much), but it would also be nice to change tha name of your repo in github to bewarethedark instead of minetest-bewarethedark, so that when the user clones it, the name for the created folder is already correct.


No worries about asking, but I'd rather keep the name as it is – this helps me keep repositories organized. I tend to use "obscure" mod names, and this way one can recognize them immediately. I personally just symlink the cloned folder anyway, and git easily lets you clone into a folder name of your choice.

The published .zips are a different matter – GitHub's standard release mechanism appends '-master' to the repo name, and I think I'm supposed to have a .zip file containing a bewarethedark folder. Dunno how I'm going to automate that…
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Lessaloploth » Thu Oct 08, 2015 08:07

Woah, this mod is extremely creative and I absolutely dearly love the idea. Amazing, man.

I have a suggestion, it's far out there, though...

What if the night was an "entity" trying to kill the player? As time goes on, the darkness gets aggressive. It starts off slow, just damaging you when you're in the darkness. Then, torches may start to go out. You go home and think, "Huh... I thought I put a torch here.". Then the torches start going out more, and darkness gets more unforgiving and nights grow longer as the "entity" tries to kill you.

I think this may be a good idea because it naturally ramps the difficulty in a predictable fashion, and progresses with the player to give them some challenge, and doesn't make it so the player is totally immune once they make an underground base.
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ferk » Thu Oct 08, 2015 08:33

Lessaloploth wrote:What if the night was an "entity" trying to kill the player? As time goes on, the darkness gets aggressive. It starts off slow, just damaging you when you're in the darkness. Then, torches may start to go out. You go home and think, "Huh... I thought I put a torch here.". Then the torches start going out more, and darkness gets more unforgiving and nights grow longer as the "entity" tries to kill you.

I think this may be a good idea because it naturally ramps the difficulty in a predictable fashion, and progresses with the player to give them some challenge, and doesn't make it so the player is totally immune once they make an underground base.

I'm not sure if I understand your idea, but maybe that deserves a separate different mod. It seems the purpose of this mod is a simple one and it should probably stay simple.

EDIT: Oh sorry, after reading a second time I understand what you mean. It's a good idea. Actually I guess it would be very easy to add an ABM to the torches to make them disappear randomly (and check the world's time before deciding to put the torch off). Might be simple and de-coupled enough that it could be added as a minetest.conf option I guess.

I still think someone should make some mod that involves insanity, that causes random effects on the player depending on his sanity level.
Maybe I'll try when I'm more free from dungeontest
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Thu Oct 08, 2015 19:29

Two quick thoughts on this:

1) The popular Goblins mod has goblins (surprise!) that, at the time of this writing, do not attack the player. However, they do knock out torches! That's one kind of "evil entity trying to kill you" ;-)

2) There's an idea about torch decay floating around. I first heard of it in Minecraft, where it was never implemented, however. I'm not sure if anyone has written anything for Minetest; I can't find anything. So I've tentitavely put it on my own ToDo list ;-)
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Don » Thu Oct 08, 2015 21:15

@Ben - I made a torch for a game I am making. It has 3 stages. After x amount of time it changes to a dimmer torch then a torch that is burnt out.
If you want I can make it a mod.
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Thu Oct 08, 2015 21:24

Don wrote:@Ben - I made a torch for a game I am making. It has 3 stages. After x amount of time it changes to a dimmer torch then a torch that is burnt out.
If you want I can make it a mod.


Sounds good! I'd love to see how other people would tackle the problem (for me, the coding is the fun part, I might write my own anyway :-D), and I think there's demand for a mod like this.
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Lessaloploth » Thu Oct 08, 2015 22:20

Ben wrote:Two quick thoughts on this:

1) The popular Goblins mod has goblins (surprise!) that, at the time of this writing, do not attack the player. However, they do knock out torches! That's one kind of "evil entity trying to kill you" ;-)

2) There's an idea about torch decay floating around. I first heard of it in Minecraft, where it was never implemented, however. I'm not sure if anyone has written anything for Minetest; I can't find anything. So I've tentitavely put it on my own ToDo list ;-)


Just to clarify, when I say "entity" I mean a theoretical one. It doesn't exist physically per-se, but it's like an omnipresence trying to kill the player by making torches burn out, lights turn off, etc etc.

Torch decay is good for your mod, IMO. Once you have a base indoors there's not much else to do, so that would give you a little bit of a goal.
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Don » Fri Oct 09, 2015 01:28

I put the torches in their own mod. Understand that this is not a finished project. It mostly looks ok.
I left the time as 10 seconds. I had it at that for testing. The first line of init.lua has the time setting. I plan to go with 7200 which is 2 hours of game play. That number is for each stage. There is actually 4 stages not 3 like I said earlier. That means a torch lasts 6 hours plus 2 hours of a burnt out torch.
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Mon Oct 12, 2015 20:49

Don wrote:I put the torches in their own mod. Understand that this is not a finished project. It mostly looks ok. https://github.com/DonBatman/mytorches


I've had a look at the code, looks neat! I haven't run it though, sorry – when I have some time next ;-)

Don wrote:[…]There is actually 4 stages not 3 like I said earlier. That means a torch lasts 6 hours plus 2 hours of a burnt out torch.


Interesting design choices: your first two stages drop a torch again. The "dim" stage (no 3) drops sticks, the "burnt out" stage drops nothing and eventually dissolves into thin air! Personally, my choice would have been to always drop "brand new" torches, and never disappear – keeping an area lit would mean strolling around and re-placing torches as time permits.

This is not a suggestion to change your mod! I was just struck by the difference in mechanics and game consequences. Your version is much more intense, and makes torches practically strictly temporary (I'd view stage 2 dropping torches as allowing to correct for misplacements). Nice!
 

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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Blehmeh98 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 14:54

A great way to troll someone with this mod would be to knock out the torches behind them while they are mining, knock out the torches in their house when they have run out of coal, etc.
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Re: [Mod] Beware the Dark [bewarethedark] (WIP)

by Ben » Mon Oct 19, 2015 05:02

Blehmeh98 wrote:A great way to troll someone with this mod would be to knock out the torches behind them while they are mining, knock out the torches in their house when they have run out of coal, etc.


Yes, or even more drastic: block a skylight they're standing under ;-)

Actually, you made me think of something: I had intended for this mod to be a replacement for "hostile mobs spawn in darkness", except without the mobs. But there is a difference: many mob systems don't spawn mobs directly next to players. In that case, darkness that is far away is dangerous, but darkness that is near is safe. With Beware the Dark, you need to stand in darkness for the effect, so near darknesss is dangerous, while far away darkness is safe.

This means it totally makes sense to have this mod and a (hostile) mob mod installed at the same time! Thanks for the insight !-D
 

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