[MOD] Ethereal NG [1.31] [ethereal]

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by LMD » Post

Josselin2 wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:23
LMD wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:03
Also note that default as a base game mod is supposed to load before other mods, hence the clearing of biomes and decorations ought to have no effect
etheral-ng, aotearoa, australia are also base-game mods that are supposed to load before other mods. Conceptually there is no difference between them and default.
If they are supposed to run before other mods they shouldn't be clearing stuff as it would be no-op.
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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by ost » Post

just send a pull request adding spanish localization

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Updated:

by TenPlus1 » Post

- Remove default biomes instead of clearing all, works better with other biome mods
- Rework fishing pole to work better with lag
- Add spanish translations and update template (thanks ost1)

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Hoping someone a little more familiar with Ethereal can chime in.

Trying not to destroy the way Ethereal places fire flowers as I can see TenPlus1 spent a bit of time tweaking the abm so they slowly appear overtime from inside the red stick shrubs. I managed to replicate that initial behaviour for my flowers mod using the node timers. In regards to density does the below look about the same in regards to final density. I ran the abm for a long time and they seemed about the same - but does this look about right to those more used to seeing a fiery biome covered in fire flowers? - The little green things are fire flowers thats just growth stage 1 - Thanks for any help :)
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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by Blockhead » Post

sirrobzeroone wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:17
Hoping someone a little more familiar with Ethereal can chime in.

Trying not to destroy the way Ethereal places fire flowers as I can see TenPlus1 spent a bit of time tweaking the abm so they slowly appear overtime from inside the red stick shrubs. I managed to replicate that initial behaviour for my flowers mod using the node timers. In regards to density does the below look about the same in regards to final density. I ran the abm for a long time and they seemed about the same - but does this look about right to those more used to seeing a fiery biome covered in fire flowers? - The little green things are fire flowers thats just growth stage 1 - Thanks for any help :)
Maybe slightly too many flowers, say if you removed 6 at random from that screenshot. I also don't think they appear adjacent that often. Anyway I'm no expert - my experience with Ethereal is mostly in LinuxForks server and that's mostly older lava fields biomes when the lava pool density was cranked up way higher.
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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

You changing the ABMs to node timers should have no effect on the number of flowers grown.

Decoration density should be the only thing that matters. Ethereal uses sidelen and density for all its decorations, so as long as you use the same sidelen and density, then you can accurately recreate the decorations.

If you use any other mod that adds biomes or otherwise changes the default and ethereal decorations, then you might be comparing an area of the map that is not faithfully recreated. If not, just find a spot on the map that you use as a baseline. I've done this for gal, and I'll admit it's been exhausting working to faithfully recreate all the biomes and decorations from all the mods from which I used content.

As a minor bonus, here are some seeds where this biome is close to spawn. You can use these on any mapgen, but v7 and valleys are described below.

"Home" - 11071344221654115949 - Spawn over water, go west from origin to find volcanoes.

"Fermat" - 14971822871466973040 - Spawn over ocean, go south to find desert and volcanoes.

Shad

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Thanks both,

Blockman i'll lower it a little :).

ShadMOrdre yes totally agree normally I would just use the settings but fire flowers are special - long winded explanation:

They sprout from ethereal:dry_shrub via abm which does this rather intresting calculation of firstly more than 3 flora in area and then if more than 8 dry shrubs but no fire flowers within 4 range then change it to a fire flower - copied the code below for intrest.

What I did was try and approximate the below by essentially assigning node timers randomly to about 20% of the dry shrubs as those node timers expire, 5% of the time they convert to fire flowers otherwise they loop and stay as dry shrubs until next check naturally statisitcally after about 20-30 checks they are all converted but a similar thing happens with the abm once it max's out an area. That roughly approximates the look of the abm converting shrubs to flowers. But density is a whole other problem likewise with spacing I'm trying to avoid using nodes_near so might have to tolerate the closer placement as i'm more in true random territory but I can certainly tweak the number of convertable dry shrubs down to 18% to better emulate coverage.

Why am I going to all this trouble, well it looks to me that Tenplus1 spent some time on that code as he could of just placed down fire flowers as part of mapgen. Instead you get this sort of slow random conversion in an area which provides a more whimsical effect which does fit with the overall theme of ethereal or maybe Tenplus1 was just bored and playing with abms :)

Naturally once they convert my node timer code takes over and after that they are forever a fire flower but at least that inital conversion is the same.

Code: Select all

local pos0 = {x = pos.x - 4, y = pos.y - 2, z = pos.z - 4}
local pos1 = {x = pos.x + 4, y = pos.y + 2, z = pos.z + 4}
...
...
local num = #minetest.find_nodes_in_area(pos0, pos1, "group:flora")
...
...
	elseif num > 3 and node.name == "ethereal:dry_shrub" then

		local grass = minetest.find_nodes_in_area_under_air(
			pos0, pos1, {"ethereal:dry_shrub"})

		if #grass > 8
		and not minetest.find_node_near(pos, 4, {"ethereal:fire_flower"}) then

			pos = grass[math.random(#grass)]

			pos.y = pos.y - 1

			if minetest.get_node(pos).name == "ethereal:fiery_dirt" then

				pos.y = pos.y + 1

				minetest.swap_node(pos, {name = "ethereal:fire_flower"})
			end
		end
		return
edit: I'll check those seeds sound intresting

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by superfloh » Post

Hi, I have a question regarding ethereal and moretrees: to me it looks like ethereal prevents the right biomes for date palms.

(client 5.6.0-dev latest master as of now, moretrees mod and ethereal mod installed via the client today, so I suppose latest versions)

newly generated world (client, new, enable just moretrees)
screenshot_20220627_152643-fs8.png
screenshot_20220627_152643-fs8.png (387.19 KiB) Viewed 5037 times
same place in another newly generated world with the same seed (client, new, enable just moretrees+ethereal)
screenshot_20220627_152616.png
screenshot_20220627_152616.png (962 KiB) Viewed 5037 times
which setting should I tweak so that biomes suitable for date palms are created again?

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Ethereal, by default, clears registered biomes, decorations and ores.

Haven't used moretrees in a long while, but ethereal should accomodate moretrees, as the code does seem to address its presence. I'll d/l moretrees and take a peak.

Shad

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by TenPlus1 » Post

Ethereal by default clears only the default biomes and creates it's own which contain similar biome names but different grass block types. MoreTree's saplings will grow especially using bonemeal mod.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by GeataRionnag » Post

This may be a dumb question, but I am in creative mode on version 5.1.0 and I am attempting to grow sakura trees on a default:dirt node. Unfortunately the sapling does not appear to be growing despite waiting several in-game days and nights. What am I missing to make it grow? I haven't yet found the sakura biome through exploration and just took the sapling from the creative inventory, if that matters at all.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by Festus1965 » Post

open the mod files, and search for the sakura tree and there you also find out what dirt version you need for it.
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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

GeataRionnag wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 16:08
...
Bad pun, I dug it out for you, basically need bamboo_dirt :-

Code: Select all

	elseif node.name == "ethereal:sakura_sapling"
	and under == "ethereal:bamboo_dirt" then
		ethereal.grow_sakura_tree(pos)

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by TenPlus1 » Post

Ethereal is made in such a way that the biome dirt you find the actual tree on is needed to grow it on as well. The crystal shovel can pick up dirt intact for use or bonemeal mod used to quick grow saplings on any dirt.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by noob101 » Post

Did I miss the reply, or has there been none so far concerning the date palms? I am interested too!

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by yitianetie » Post

Hi,

An interresting mod but when i use it with the mapgen valley, I get bambous forests just near snowy hills. Is that normal ? Are there any settings to enable to correctly use your mod ?

Kindest regards

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

yitianetie wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 21:04
...
looks possible - dug up this ethereal voronoi diagram I think Paramat created:

https://www.geogebra.org/m/u2ngcd5F

Intersection point looks to be around 110 for humidity value and -5 for temp (top left corner when at +10 for vertical height circled on attachment) it's rare as common range for values is 0-100 but you can get as low as -25 and as high as 125 so it can happen (info from one of Paramats many mapgen threads).
Attachments
ethereal_bamboo_glacier.PNG
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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by yitianetie » Post

Thanks for the reply and interesting to hear that.
But generally, is ethereal compatible with valley mapgen ?

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by TenPlus1 » Post

I think valley mapgen works differently than other mapgens lowering heat as landscapes rise, hence the different biome layout.

I would be very thankful if someone good with voroni diagrams would do a new graph with ethereal's latest biome heat/humidity numbers, it may be time to jiggle things around a little and fix the huge bamboo/cave biomes.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by yitianetie » Post

I see and I agree with that.
By reading the files in the mod folder, ethereal seem to use heat and humidity values from vanilla biomes as a base, except for the mushrooms biomes and some others. But maybe I am mistaken.
And I don't know yet how to customize settings to combine the regional weather mod, ethereal and the faboulous valley mapgen.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Managed to learn enough of Geogebra and pulling apart the one created before to assemble a new biome ethereal Voronoi diagram:

Just a snip at height = 5, but the slider does work, I'll do some more cleanup and see if i can shrink/move those labels somehow.....
Ethereal_WIP_Height_5.PNG
Ethereal_WIP_Height_5.PNG (164.79 KiB) Viewed 4597 times
Edit: should have said heat = x and humidity = y :)

Edit2: Jiggling things around there's a big overlap between Dec and Con forest - deliberate maybe as it would make for some interesting forest :)

Code: Select all

Name - Min height - Max height - Heat- Hum
"coniferous_forest", 4, 40, 10, 40
"deciduous_forest", 3, 91, 13, 40

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Double reply but thought it was easier than another edit

Link to file on Geogebra - You can edit it without an account but saving will need an account unless you save locally.
https://www.geogebra.org/classic/jcc8eyy5

Not sure if edits will edit it for everyone if you save so I saved a copy and kept it private so i can restore if i need to.

The basics - TenPlus1 I think mostly you'll want to know this but others might:
  • Firstly GeoGebra is not what I would call super user friendly - Quirky would be good descriptor :)
  • If playing with the above don't try and move the blue dots that'll totally break the height automation
  • Update the Height Min/Max Heat/Humidity values in the spreadsheet view I left open on the right (red box below) - and don't change the formula in Column F, that'll break it.
  • When updating click in cell update value then click outside the cell on the top menu bar works well...pressing enter will move you down a cell which is annoying - quirky
  • Adjusting to an exact height click on the slider and then update the value in the right most pane "definition" field to an exact value - The above link will open setup like that but as soon as you click on another element it's properties will be displayed (Blue box below)
  • Depending on your monitor size/aspect ratio you may need to change some of the pane sizes :)
  • Some of the labels still overlap - sorry I'll keep trying to tweak them but they are a little annoying to move - another quirk
pictures being worth a 1000 words:
ethereal_biomes_geogebra.png
ethereal_biomes_geogebra.png (204.01 KiB) Viewed 4585 times

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by mcaygerhard » Post

this geogebra seems not has source code.. and ethereal has not documentation so ..

i was in curse to made a minimal README as i does for tenplus1 but ethereal are so huge in params
and technically huge respect the mapgens (also the new one from the crap of minetest 5.X)

how we can take this info from this tool to made a minimal documentation?

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

mcaygerhard wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 14:50
this geogebra seems......tool to made a minimal documentation?
I'll do my best, theres a heap of info in the mapgen thread at the top of mod discussions. Hope I get this right:
  • Heat and Humidity have values range from 0-125, but above 100 is super rare so 0-100 works okay.
  • The most common/average number for both is 50 so any biome with a 50/50 heat and humidity will be the most common
  • On the Voronoi diagram, the larger the cell appears in theory the larger the biome however you have to mentally take into account the fact the values beyond 50/50 are rarer already - anything in a range of 25-75 feels fairly common in game.
  • Any mapgen that alters heat and humidity will also change the biome rarity etc eg the Valleys mapgen which decreases temp with height
  • The voronoi's have to be balanced by height as well, hence the slider a biome could be super rare at say height 4 because of overlaps but at height 100 super common which is whats wanted
I've worked on balancing my own biomes and it's really hard, the other difficult is trying to get a more natural transition so you don't end up with desert next to say glacier at some point. I ended up with a few "buffer" biomes as voronoi points.

I probably should add a few "blank biomes" to the geogebra link above so new biomes can be added easily.

Amidst is a great tool for tinkering and loading a map with a specific biome set and see large scale to see how biomes will appear in game:
viewtopic.php?t=19869

I might be able to assemble some instructions for geogebra, theres not alot of code per say just lots of fiddling - the code is hidden under a pane on the left just pull the pane edge across and you will see them.

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Re: [MOD] Ethereal NG [1.29] [ethereal]

by superfloh » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 04:09
Ethereal, by default, clears registered biomes, decorations and ores.

Haven't used moretrees in a long while, but ethereal should accomodate moretrees, as the code does seem to address its presence. I'll d/l moretrees and take a peak.

Shad
Looks like very hot desert sand which is needed for date palms is replaced by the fire biome.

So, which setting controls this threshold? I think increasing this by 5 degrees should fix it and date palms will be mapgen'ed again.

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