[mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by JanLS » Fri Jun 22, 2018 21:07

I'm definitely going to try this one out

I' literally just recently posted for quite a similar idea, which may provide some additional ideas of features to be developed in the future
- link to the post: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=18262&p=322575#p322427
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Fri Jun 22, 2018 21:17

JanLS wrote:I'm definitely going to try this one out

I' literally just recently posted for quite a similar idea, which may provide some additional ideas of features to be developed in the future
- link to the post: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=18262&p=322575#p322427

Some of what you posted there can already be done by this mod (grabbing and rebuilding). Unfortunately though I am completely ignoring all metadata and as such it's impossible to rebuild anything that needs to configure nodes.

I'll look into adding such a feature though, it would be really useful to share machineries.

Hope you'll like this mod despite its current limitations (it's also pretty sure that this mod will mess up many non-facedir nodes, it already does so with doors and most likely all colorfacedir, wallmounted, colorwallmounted and perhaps many more types).

Luckily it's still a WIP :P
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Fri Jun 22, 2018 23:12

Changed naming of custom configuration files (they all start with "custom" now).

Added ability to customize recipes for all canvases or disable some of them.

Made mod to depend on [matrix] instead of embedding it.

Incomplete README updates, I still need to detail the ability to rebuild any capture with the original nodes.

Rotation bugs for non-facedir nodes are surely still there.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by JanLS » Sat Jun 23, 2018 01:34

Already I can see/imagine it to be really useful for many things (mostly decorative elements and furniture).

As I posted this idea I weren't hoping even for this for a while to be available: great work by the way (it's also had to be a lot off work and all that I've posted there probably would be a whole lot more of it - I'm not that impatient).

---------------

As for mesecons - it would be rather a long-term future perspective to be a feature that's added in time
- I weren't expecting literal minification of the whole thing: rather resulting block would be pseudo interactive (just pretends the logic)
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by ChimneySwift » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:20

I recon you should put your mods on the Content Database. Cool stuff.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:45

ChimneySwift wrote:I recon you should put your mods on the Content Database. Cool stuff.

I'm glad you like it :)

Yep I plan to do put some of my mods on the Content Database but this one is still far from being stable, and even when it will be ready, I'll have to move it to the released mods forum section - if I understand that correctly, the Content DB is not for WIP mods.

I started requesting the move to the released mods forum section for [rhotator], which I feel is ripe enough for that, but it hasn't been moved yet, I guess they do those moves not very often.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:52

JanLS wrote:Already I can see/imagine it to be really useful for many things (mostly decorative elements and furniture).

As I posted this idea I weren't hoping even for this for a while to be available: great work by the way (it's also had to be a lot off work and all that I've posted there probably would be a whole lot more of it - I'm not that impatient).

---------------

As for mesecons - it would be rather a long-term future perspective to be a feature that's added in time
- I weren't expecting literal minification of the whole thing: rather resulting block would be pseudo interactive (just pretends the logic)


Could you elaborate a bit better about your view?

In a nutshell, what [wesh] is able to do right now is:
- grab any build as "wool colors" and as actual nodes
- reconstruct any build either with wool blocks or with the actual nodes, but ignoring all metadata
- create meshes out of the "wool colors" that have been grabbed; such meshes get used as sigle nodes (the actual nodes of the original build make no difference there, only their "nodename = color" mappings matter there)

Where would your idea plug in the above? The thing I am interested in is the details of what would happen from the user's perspective ("player creates X, grabs it, the mod spits out a node able to do Y" and so forth)
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by LMD » Sat Jun 23, 2018 15:32

What IMO would be great & not that hard to make (I guess) would be : Merging meshes.
So, let's say you got a node with a CUSTOM model :
- translate coordinates of all vertices
- scale down vertice coordinates
and then just add it as seperate obj group to your file, like that :
o meshwithmodel
v .....
(the nodes modified mesh goes here)
and then :
o weshstuff
... what you are generating as obj file

BTW, are you really "calculating" the models ? Cuz' using obj grouping could make life easier then ;)

I see this mod has potential, and that it's getting better and better. Do you support rotations with your matrices (also like 34° or so) ? How about perspective projection matrices ?

And finally : What would you think about the other way round(I'm currently planning to do so) : Converting .obj files into schematics(by rendering them in slices from all perspectives(x,y,z)) ? Is it a good idea ?
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 16:54

LMD wrote:What IMO would be great & not that hard to make (I guess) would be : Merging meshes.
So, let's say you got a node with a CUSTOM model :
- translate coordinates of all vertices
- scale down vertice coordinates
and then just add it as seperate obj group to your file, like that :
o meshwithmodel
v .....
(the nodes modified mesh goes here)
and then :
o weshstuff
... what you are generating as obj file

Yep, that could be done, but I'm not really sure it would be worth it or all that useful.

Say you start with a 2x2x2 build, when you bring that down to a single node, each face will become 0.5 nodes wide.

Then you make another 2x2x2 build, including one such mesh. Scaling that mesh down to proportion would make the above faces 0.125 nodes wide, which would be just the same effect if you did everything from scratch out of an 8x8x8 build.

Now imagine you strarted with an 8x8x8 build and included an 8x8x8 single-node mesh in it. When scaled down to proportion the merged mesh would be just a slightly recognizable speck.
LMD wrote:BTW, are you really "calculating" the models ? Cuz' using obj grouping could make life easier then ;)

Not sure I get what you mean... if you refer to grabbing the actual geometry of each original node and group them all together in the final mesh, that would be very precise but also quite heavy, both result-wise and coding-wise (most of the nodes aren't mesh-based, I should make the mod parse their nodeboxes, and then we have sign-like, raillike, wallmounted, plantlike and whatnot, all with a slightly different handling and representation), let alone the amount of corner cases for face removal in case a stair is placed side by side to a full node, to make an example: you would need to check if a face is against another full face, and if not, you would need to compute the boolean to only create the quarter of face that remains visible in the lateral "denting" of the stairs.

At that point it would be far better to grab the .matrix.dat file I am generating, mangle the data properly and serve it to an appropriate voxelizer and have it compute the resulting mesh in a professional manner.
LMD wrote:I see this mod has potential, and that it's getting better and better. Do you support rotations with your matrices (also like 34° or so) ? How about perspective projection matrices ?

That is definitely feasible. I would just need to properly plug in the logic and the interface, matrices support all of that out of the box (flattening, skewing, rotating, scaling, translating and so forth, with any combination thereof in whatever sequence)
LMD wrote:And finally : What would you think about the other way round(I'm currently planning to do so) : Converting .obj files into schematics(by rendering them in slices from all perspectives(x,y,z)) ? Is it a good idea ?

That would be something better handled in a separate converter, eventually made in Java if you want to tackle that.

Watch out cause it would be lots of work - bringing the "rigid" information of a 16x16x16 cube of nodes into the space of floating point coordinates of a mesh is relatively trivial; conversely, parsing one such mesh and work out which faces actually define a node and of what type would be way, way trickier.

What you _could_ do, though (and I believe this is what you meant), is scanning the volume of the mesh and set a voxel whenever the coordinates fall inside such volume. That would make it possible to grab _any_ mesh and have it rebuilt as just a matrix of "air or woolblock" (monochrome) that players can then alter and decorate the way they better prefer, eventually grabbing them back as a voxel-mesh with my mod afterwards.

But then, there are already voxelizers doing so out there. If I were to add one such a feature, I would simply have my mod parse one of those voxelizers file formats to have it rebuild the "volume only" matrix.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by LMD » Sat Jun 23, 2018 17:38

"Yep, that could be done, but I'm not really sure it would be worth it or all that useful."
When I wrote this :
"So, let's say you got a node with a CUSTOM model : "
I was not only thinking 'bout models from Wesh, bout also others. For example, your tpads mod got a custom model, doesn't it ;)
and with that feature, you could make a 2x2 model : a floor of tpads !!!

> "BTW, are you really "calculating" the models ? Cuz' using obj grouping could make life easier then ;)"
"Not sure what you mean[...]"
I mean :
- if you have one-object obj, it looks like that :
# myobj
n ... global normals go here : -x,x,-y,y,-z,z
o weshfile
v 0 0 0
v ....
v... vertices go here
t ... uvs go here
i ... indices go here

with grouping :
o weshfilecubeone
v 0 0 0
v ....
v... vertices go here
n ... normals of cube two go here
t ... uvs of cube one go here
i ... indices of cube one go here
and o weshfilecubetwo, and so on.........

I mean, 2nd one is easier for ur mod to create...
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 18:01

LMD wrote:"Yep, that could be done, but I'm not really sure it would be worth it or all that useful."
When I wrote this :
"So, let's say you got a node with a CUSTOM model : "
I was not only thinking 'bout models from Wesh, bout also others. For example, your tpads mod got a custom model, doesn't it ;)
and with that feature, you could make a 2x2 model : a floor of tpads !!!

> "BTW, are you really "calculating" the models ? Cuz' using obj grouping could make life easier then ;)"
"Not sure what you mean[...]"
I mean :
- if you have one-object obj, it looks like that :
# myobj
n ... global normals go here : -x,x,-y,y,-z,z
o weshfile
v 0 0 0
v ....
v... vertices go here
t ... uvs go here
i ... indices go here

with grouping :
o weshfilecubeone
v 0 0 0
v ....
v... vertices go here
n ... normals of cube two go here
t ... uvs of cube one go here
i ... indices of cube one go here
and o weshfilecubetwo, and so on.........

I mean, 2nd one is easier for ur mod to create...


About the point of merging a simple mesh like the one of the [tpad], sure, that could be done, but then people would very likely go nuts trying to combine together arbitrary meshes with very complex geometry, and the thing would fail in most of the cases - whether or not I intercept such a failure on capture or I let it slip through generating meshes that will not be rendered by the game.

The main purpose was to let people create meshes out of voxels, not to implement a 3D editor inside the game - although it would be ubercool :)

About the point of merging multiple objects in a single .obj file, pardon me if I'm thick, but I'm still not sure I get the point... are you suggesting I should simply dump there each voxel as a separate cube? Say, I am grabbing a 2x2x2 canvas, should I put there 8 cubes using the grouping technique?
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 20:01

Entuland wrote:About the point of merging multiple objects in a single .obj file, pardon me if I'm thick, but I'm still not sure I get the point... are you suggesting I should simply dump there each voxel as a separate cube? Say, I am grabbing a 2x2x2 canvas, should I put there 8 cubes using the grouping technique?


LMD wrote:yup, you got it !


Oh then my approach is better, cause simply grouping 8 cubes there would result in 48 total faces in the mesh, whereas my code cuts out unneeded faces up to the point of completely ignoring cubes if they're surrounded by other cubes - in the 2x2x2 filled case I mentioned, 8 voxels result in just 24 faces with my implementation.

More expensive computation wise at capture time, but far more effective for performance when meshes get actually used in the world.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by LMD » Sat Jun 23, 2018 20:18

you could still cut out unneeded faces, but wouldn't have to do all that indice calculation that often.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sat Jun 23, 2018 21:02

LMD wrote:you could still cut out unneeded faces, but wouldn't have to do all that indice calculation that often.


Considering the fact that you pointed out the actual output, let's start from that:

I just exported a 2x2x2 canvas with 8 wool blocks inside, the produced file has 120 lines, of which:
- 64 lines are for vertex texture coordinates (vt), always the same for all exports
- 6 lines are for vertex normals (vn), always the same for all exports
- 26 lines are for vertices (v)
- 24 lines are for faces (f)

How would you go to improve that in the output file?

If instead you are speaking about the way I am producing that output, what are the exact calculations I could get rid of?

I'm all for improving my code, but it's tough for me if I don't manage to understand _where_ it can be optimized and how.

It would be nice if you could point out what part of my code is doing unnecessary calculations or even just outline in pseudocode the algo you have in mind.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Sun Jun 24, 2018 09:47

LMD wrote:how many lines are for indices ?

In the produced .obj file? Not even half.

In the .obj format separated indices are implicitly given starting from 1 to each "v", each "vt" and each "vn" lines, to let "f" lines to refer to them.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by Sokomine » Thu Jun 28, 2018 21:40

Looks very intresting. I wonder if it might be a good idea to automaticly create objects from the buildings my mg_villages mod ships with. That won't be of help for the villages as such. Those are placed at mapgen time. The build chest could be improved by showing the model of the house that is to be built. Kind of as a model for the "workers" so that they know what to place there. That could look fine in combination with the scaffolding.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Thu Jun 28, 2018 21:51

Sokomine wrote:Looks very intresting. I wonder if it might be a good idea to automaticly create objects from the buildings my mg_villages mod ships with. That won't be of help for the villages as such. Those are placed at mapgen time. The build chest could be improved by showing the model of the house that is to be built. Kind of as a model for the "workers" so that they know what to place there. That could look fine in combination with the scaffolding.

Not sure I fully understand your idea... what are the "build chests" exactly? And the model should be a real-size one, or a miniature?

If there was a way for me to display "ghost nodes", maybe smaller than a real node, without preventing players from placing nodes there, I could create a real-size "blueprint" that the players can build node-by-node, by simply placing an appropriate node where the ghost node is.

Since they would also get in the way, I should regularly scan the area and only show ghost nodes in the neighborhood of already placed nodes (and in front of the canvas block, or in any case starting from somewhere, when no node has been placed yet).

Probably entities could be able to do so, but I never really messed with them and I ignore their abilities.
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by Sokomine » Thu Jun 28, 2018 22:06

No, definitely no ghost nodes. I saw such a method in a youtube video but didn't like it particulary due to it looking unrealistic and making building rather confusing. When a player places a handle_schematics:build (the build chest; looks like a chest), selects a building for spawning and doesn't have the creative priv, no nodes in the world are removed. Each place that ought to hold a node for the house gets a scaffolding node.
It'd be nice to show a model of the building project above the build chest so that there appears to be a plan for it. That'd be very similar to what your mod already does. Except perhaps that I'd take the building data from an internal data structure instead of reading it from the world. Calculating the object data/meshes once ought to be enough. It wouldn't work for player-built houses but could be nice for pre-built ones.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Thu Jun 28, 2018 22:31

Sokomine wrote:No, definitely no ghost nodes. I saw such a method in a youtube video but didn't like it particulary due to it looking unrealistic and making building rather confusing. When a player places a handle_schematics:build (the build chest; looks like a chest), selects a building for spawning and doesn't have the creative priv, no nodes in the world are removed. Each place that ought to hold a node for the house gets a scaffolding node.
It'd be nice to show a model of the building project above the build chest so that there appears to be a plan for it. That'd be very similar to what your mod already does. Except perhaps that I'd take the building data from an internal data structure instead of reading it from the world. Calculating the object data/meshes once ought to be enough. It wouldn't work for player-built houses but could be nice for pre-built ones.


Given that I have close to zero experience with WorldEdit and I never used schematics at all, let's see if I am getting you right:

- the player places down one of my canvas blocks and chooses one of the builds to be imported, but given they have no privileges, the world doesn't get altered at all

- on top of the canvas block the colored miniature appears, but it can't be dug

- in the world itself any existing block remains as it is, even if it should be replaced by a node of the build

- if any given position is filled with air and should really be part of the build, a scaffolding node gets put there; the player will then need to dig that scaffolding node and put an appropriate node there instead

- placement of scaffolding nodes can be triggered again from the canvas block (say, after you've manually cleared the area from unwanted nodes)

- whenever the canvas block gets destroyed, any scaffolding nodes in its range get removed as well, along with the miniature

How am I going?
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by Sokomine » Thu Jun 28, 2018 22:37

Er...not really :-) I just want your woolen meshes as decoration. All that placement of scaffolding or real nodes already exists. Trouble is that the chest as such is a bit boring. It'd be nicer to have a model spawn above it so that players (and future NPC builders) can see how it ought to look. Perhaps a wooden model...
I'm just a bit reluctant because it's hard to tell how much impact so many models might have. That type of gameplay is best suited for singleplayer, and two houses would be some distance apart. So it might work.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by entuland » Thu Jun 28, 2018 23:31

Sokomine wrote:Er...not really :-) I just want your woolen meshes as decoration. All that placement of scaffolding or real nodes already exists. Trouble is that the chest as such is a bit boring. It'd be nicer to have a model spawn above it so that players (and future NPC builders) can see how it ought to look. Perhaps a wooden model...
I'm just a bit reluctant because it's hard to tell how much impact so many models might have. That type of gameplay is best suited for singleplayer, and two houses would be some distance apart. So it might work.

Eehehehe, well, had it been another scenario, I would have replied "hey dude, why didn't you simply state that to begin with?" but most likely it's just me failing to understand you in first place.

It's all well and good, cause I will probably implement some variation of the above for my mod (and I'll probably go with the ghost nodes).

If all you want is a miniature mesh of your models, maybe implementing a simpler mesh creator directly would be better in your case - my mod does far more than that but it's completely useless when the models are done - in that respect, all it does is grabbing some data from a file and registering such nodes binding them to the .obj files.

If you're going to show them as wood miniatures you could also optimize their meshes by merging coplanar faces together (I cannot do that in my mod cause I need to be able to use very small textures for each face of the mini-voxels). Such optimized meshes would probably save the rendering engine some sweat.

The actual .obj format is really simple and in your case the UV mapping could be done quite effectively even just sloppily mapping vertex coordinates to UV coordinates on a nice texture (just find out the axis that doesn't change and use the other two straight away, shifting them by 0.5 to account for the different coordinate span).
 

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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by Sokomine » Sun Jul 01, 2018 21:20

entuland wrote:Eehehehe, well, had it been another scenario, I would have replied "hey dude, why didn't you simply state that to begin with?" but most likely it's just me failing to understand you in first place.

No, most likely my fault. Had to catch up with reading the forum and got a bit tired from all that reading :-)

entuland wrote:If all you want is a miniature mesh of your models, maybe implementing a simpler mesh creator directly would be better in your case - my mod does far more than that but it's completely useless when the models are done - in that respect, all it does is grabbing some data from a file and registering such nodes binding them to the .obj files.

That's right. So the best approach might be to use your mod once to create these models. Might still be some work to get that done. Maybe some form of automatization is possible...hope to be able to find the time to try it.
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Re: [mod] Woolen Mesh Creator (not only wool!) [wesh]

by ManElevation » Mon Jul 02, 2018 00:08

entuland wrote:
ManElevation wrote:oh wow does this work with anything? no limit?

As far as grabbing / rebuilding with the same nodes goes, it works with anything.

It is enough for the nodes to be registered (they will, if you're seeing them in the world) and the mod will rebuild them (but they must be registered even when you're rebuilding them of course, be it the same world at a later time or a completely different world).

If they use the "facedir" value for "param2type", they will also get properly rotated on rebuild.

Node metadata will be completely ignored, they will behave as freshly placed nodes, so you'll not get back chest contents, sign texts, luacontroller codes and whatnot. All of that stuff will go lost on rebuild.

If instead you want to rebuild them as wool blocks (or if you want to get the one-block-meshes out of the builds) of course that is far more limited, cause nodename => color mappings must be added in the custom nodecolors.conf file, and the meshes themselves will only use the wool colors.

oh ok, thx for responding so fast
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