[Modpack] Unter Null [unternull]

[Sokomine]

Papyrus roots have no use except that you can place them on water to start a base. Once you have some resources they are useless.

They are still useful after that! You can obtain more dirt with them. And: They're very decorative!

[Casimir]

Some changes:

• Broken dirt recipe has been fixed by bell07.
• Fixed that papyrus only grows 1 node high on roots.
• Changed crushing furnace appearance and called it Grinder.
• Create a chest at game start instead of giving stuff to players.
• Have lava cooling give you obsidian (molten rock in Voxelgarden), and basic ores (chance to get an ore is one per max stack).

[bell07]

If singlenode is installed your first spawn is above a solid block (stone). This single block is above water. So you can directly start your build without searching for anything solid.

That's nice - but not really necessary here. You can put the papyrus root into water - you don't need any other nodes to place it. It acts more like a water bucket than a normal node there.

Agree. But at the first game start I did not realized that. If I see the comment of "Me Me and Me" it is not uncommon to search for existing solids at the first.

Ores can be obtained from mods. It's hard to get started. But once you've got 3 copper ores and 5 iron ores you're done - craft one ore extractor, place it at least 25 nodes below water, and you'll be able to turn the famous papyrus root into ores :-)

Which mods do you use for this? Which "ore extractor"?

How I can get cobble? I do not see any recipes :(

You need to start with some cobble. Cook one to get a lava source - and make sure to place it somewhere below water level and with water reaching not too close to it so that the source will not be turned into stone immediately. Where water and flowing lava meet, new cobble will be generated. 4 cobble can be crafted into rocks, from which tools can be crafted.

Yea, the first try get me obsidian. The second try, a level above without direct contact to water I get a infinite cobble source because of floating lava generates the stone too.

I can see dirt_with_grass and flowers on the screenshots, but how can I get dirt_with_grass? As far as I know the code it needs other spreading_dirt_type or grass nodes as neighbors to convert dirt to dirt_with_grass

Plants can be obtained by crafting tree saplings into seedlings and placing the seedlings on dirt. They'll turn into a random flower/grass/etc. plant.

Which mod does it? In my world I cannot craft anything with sapling :-(

I proposed a mod that should cover some missed elements:

I am think about the next mod "mutagen_furnace" to be able to "mutate"
- saplings to other sapling types (should be usefull for moretrees)
- leaves to other flora things (flower)
- dirt to dirt_with_*
- sand to other sand (silver, red)
- stone to stone_with_ore
- cobble to other solids that usually added by mapgen to the world

Do you see such mod as useful or do you know other mods that covers the proposed items assortment enrichment useful for singlenode worlds without ground resources? If useful I start the development next weekend.

EDIT: - stone to stone_with_ore Thanks Casimir for better lava-cooling!
EDIT2: new roots recipe collides with cottages:reet now ;-(

[Sokomine]

Which mods do you use for this? Which "ore extractor"?

It's rnd's basic_machines mod. It comes with a special ore detector. At least the version that's installed on the the Sea is my Life server. That server also has the saplings to seedlings craft - as did the original Unternull server. Maybe this game needs adjustments when used with newer versions of MTG?

[Casimir]

Don't get confused. The Sea is My Life server uses the Voxelgarden subgame. And the subgame has the sapling to seedling thing.

EDIT2: new roots recipe collides with cottages:reet now ;-(

Okay, I reverted it.

[twoelk]

Don't get confused. The Sea is My Life server uses the Voxelgarden subgame. ...

eh?
now I'm confused
or
maybe not
hm
voxelgarden subgame with unternull modpack, hmm
seems they go well together :-D
actually I really like if resource crafting chains can go in circles

[bell07]

As you know I like generic ways instead of hard-coded items. And I like the idea of ores in lava-cooling. What do you think about the next proposal? If you like it, pls. apply to upstream.

Code: Select all

--- a/additional_stuff/init.lua
+++ b/additional_stuff/init.lua
@@ -114,18 +114,18 @@ default.cool_lava = function(pos, node)
                        minetest.set_node(pos, {name = "default:stone"})
                end
        else -- Lava flowing
-               -- find one ore per max stack
-               local oneinastack = minetest.nodedef_default.stack_max
-               if math.random(1, oneinastack) == 1 then
-                       local ore_choice = math.random(1, 2)
-                       if ore_choice == 1 then
-                               minetest.set_node(pos, {name = "default:stone_with_copper"})
-                       elseif ore_choice == 2 then
-                               minetest.set_node(pos, {name = "default:stone_with_iron"})
+               local ORE_RARITY = 5
+               local stone = "default:stone"
+               for _, ore in pairs(minetest.registered_ores) do
+                       if ore.wherein == stone and ore.ore_type == "scatter" then
+                               local rarity = math.floor(ORE_RARITY * ore.clust_scarcity / ore.clust_size)
+                               if math.random(rarity) == 1 then
+                                       stone = ore.ore
+                                       break
+                               end
                        end
-               else
-                       minetest.set_node(pos, {name = "default:stone"})
                end
+               minetest.set_node(pos, {name = stone})
        end
        minetest.sound_play("default_cool_lava",
                {pos = pos, max_hear_distance = 16, gain = 0.25})

Some statistics:
1) First test was with mtg-subgame+undernull and "ORE_RARITY=1". The Result was: 8x99 Cobble + 17x copper + 10 coal + 11x iron + 2x mese + 1x gold
2) Adjusted ORE_RARITY to 5: 10x99 Cobble + 6x iron + 2x copper + 1x coal + 1x mese
3) Activated other mods that I usually use. Again 10 Stacks: 4x iron + 1x copper + 3x coal + 1 DIAMOND! + 1x gold

For me it should be in the default mod / mtg lava-cooling ;)

[Casimir]

Oh, that really is a good way to do it. I knew mine was just thrown together, but was to lazy to research on a better way.
I will include it into the mod. However I would remove coal and diamonds, as those would burn up in real lava. (Which requires hard coding items again, as we can't determine which ones are metals.)

[bell07]

I do not see the reason to remove the coal and diamonds.
The lava cooling produces stone_with_diamond and stone_with_coal. It will not be burn up because of missed oxygen in lava cooling ;-) If metals was in lava before, coal and diamond can be happen if anything organic is in pressure during the cooling.
What about mese? Is Mese organic or metal oO?
If you like you can implement a blacklist that can be filled with items, depending on game. But I like to get it all.

I look for next way to get Items usually available trough mapgen. What do you think about

Code: Select all

+	{"default:dirt", "default:clay_lump",   6},

in furnance?

[Casimir]

I missed that you can't make charcoal in MTG. To just have a cooking recipe might be better than to have coal as an ore.

In fact lava contains a lot of oxygen. Otherwise it would be almost pure metals. Finding coal in lava just feels wrong to me. Whoever we could have a list

Code: Select all

additional_stuff.not_in_lava_cooling = {"default:stone_with_coal", "default:stone_with_diamond"} 

that you can override with a mod

Code: Select all

additional_stuff.not_in_lava_cooling = {}

Here is my current draft based on yours.

About clay: I already considered, after adding the compost mod, to add a grinder recipe from sand to clay. But we can add dirt > clay now and change it when the compost is ready (which might take long).

[bell07]

I looked trough your draft. For me the blacklist is ok, configurable trough other mod. At the end the right setting needs to match to the subgame.

You removed the additional rarity multiplicator ORE_RARITY from your draft. Without them the ores are to often.
The issue is in the rarity calculation I did not used the height_min / height_max high setting because it should be difficult to reach some heights deep. But there are some settings with deep hight_min and relativelly often ores so at the end the ores are often as expected. Please add the setting again, overridable by other mods too ;)

Now I am researching how I can utilize the registered decorations to get the flora to the sea… My Idea is a new Furnance called "Mutagen Furnance". You put Saplings to the furnance and fuel. In 99% the sapling is just lost, but in 1% you get any other sapling, flower or seed. That is the basic idea.
Hm, you mentioned a compost mod. Which one Do you mean? Maybe the mutation can be happen rare in compost? [idea!]

[Sokomine]

About clay: I already considered, after adding the compost mod, to add a grinder recipe from sand to clay. But we can add dirt > clay now and change it when the compost is ready (which might take long).

I love that idea. Something like dirt+sand -> 2 clay would be great for MTG as well. Clay isn't exactly a particulary rare material in RL after all.

[Casimir]

This mod: compost. I made a fork to make the interface look more like a furnace, with progress arrow and such. But I also want to change the general behaviour. At the moment it takes 8 items to start composting, which might be confusing if you don't know. So I want each item to turn on its own into a new item "compost". Then 9 compost make one dirt. Plus maybe a functionality similar to the bone meal in MC.

I removed ORE_RARITY because it seemed redundant. The ores themselves gave the rarity. With height you raised another issue. Because some ores where registered for different heights the occur several times in the list, and thus are more likely to spawn. Maybe take the heights they occur in and create factor to multiply in the cluster one. Somehow like (made up values) mese: max=-1000 min=-5000. factor = |(-1000 - -5000)|/32000 = 0.125

We also have the problem that we are going through the list and trow a dice for each item. It 1. makes the earlier ores more common, and 2. increases the over all chance. I now tried for hours to make a copy of the table of registered ores fist, and then randomly pick one out of the list and trow a dice. But lua tables are hardly usable beyond the basics, so I'm giving up for now.

In the case that I don't want to try again, I will just merge your version. It somehow gives sane ratios.

[bell07]

I will have a look to your compost fork if I can apply my idea for rare resulting grass and saplings in it.

But lua tables are hardly usable beyond the basics, so I'm giving up for now.

It is the same reason why I just added an additional multiplicator factor ORE_RARITY.
I will re-check again how the hight can be recalculated to the "5", but you can already merge the version as is. Please merge your branch, because you did some additional adjustments and the blacklist. Just the additional factor is missed. If anyone have a good idea you can merge the better calculation in a separate PR.

Your proposal does use the wide range, i do not see how the range is related to the rarity :-/ The relation is how far you are in the range.

Idea (1 for today): If you are in range between min-max: the factor is 1. If you are outside: use the shorter distance to get the factor from this distance (again by static multiplicator :-( ~100 ?) So in your example the additional rarity is 1000 / 100 = 10 for Mese?

A Site-effect for I see unternull (mostly time not far to y=0), I do not know if expected or not, with high-dependant rarity the lava cooling will give coal and iron the most time (if not blacklisted) the copper, mese, diamonds will be very rare because usually you find this ores deeper in underground. [unsure] At the time all usual hardly to find ores are more frequently because somewhere a range is defined with more frequency of the ore.

An organizatoric question: I prefer to take development related discussions on github instead of the forum, because the forum is more for player question as I understand. But I may be wrong.

[TechNolaByte]

wow this is pretty cool
sorta like skyfactory but with a twist

[JiCeyCraft]

Hello, hello!

See my comment about your Modpack here :

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14484&start=25

[garpu]

Is there any way to make grass? I pulled in the mod from voxelcraft that makes tree saplings create seedlings. I've got some flowers, at least. :)

[bell07]

Is there any way to make grass? I pulled in the mod from voxelcraft that makes tree saplings create seedlings. I've got some flowers, at least. :)

For that reason I enhanced the compost mod https://github.com/bell07/minetest-compost
My changes are rejected by CasimirKaPazi, therefore not merged to upstream. I should take an own release and forum topic for this ... lazyness...
The idea is the compost does convert misc vegetables (flora', 'leaves', 'flower', 'plant', 'sapling') to dirt and sometimes (rare) any other vegetable appears as composting result (abstract: flower grows on compost). So it is possible with some luck and patience to get all installed vegetables. The mod looks to some groups ('flora', 'sapling', 'seed') and the registered decorations for possible gifts.

[garpu]

Is there any way to make grass? I pulled in the mod from voxelcraft that makes tree saplings create seedlings. I've got some flowers, at least. :)

For that reason I enhanced the compost mod https://github.com/bell07/minetest-compost
My changes are rejected by CasimirKaPazi, therefore not merged to upstream. I should take an own release and forum topic for this ... lazyness...
The idea is the compost does convert misc vegetables (flora', 'leaves', 'flower', 'plant', 'sapling') to dirt and sometimes (rare) any other vegetable appears as composting result (abstract: flower grows on compost). So it is possible with some luck and patience to get all installed vegetables. The mod looks to some groups ('flora', 'sapling', 'seed') and the registered decorations for possible gifts.

Cool, thanks!