[Mod] Bones [bones]

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PilzAdam
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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 13:30

0gb.us wrote:EDIT: It also seems that in your rewrite, if a player is inside a node when they die, the bones replace the node, and it is lost forever. Not a huge deal, but if this makes it into minetest_game, it would be nice if that bug were fixed.

Thats not a bug. Polite players can go underground to die so that other players dont have to make a funeral ;-)
 

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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 13:47

0gb.us wrote:On second thought, it might be interesting. I still think it should be optional though. And the can_dig() function should DEFINITELY be changed from

Code: Select all
    can_dig = function(pos, player)
        return is_owner(pos, player:get_player_name())
    end,


to

Code: Select all
    can_dig = function(pos, player)
        local meta = minetest.env:get_meta(pos);
        local inv = meta:get_inventory()
        return is_owner(pos, player:get_player_name()) and inv:is_empty("main")
    end,

Yea, its better this way.
 

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by Calinou » Tue Jan 01, 2013 14:33

Voted yes (but it should be disabled in creative mode of course, if not already).
 

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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 14:45

Calinou wrote:Voted yes (but it should be disabled in creative mode of course, if not already).

It is already disabled in creative.
 

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by jojoa1997 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 15:50

Just make it optional. I like survival but I also use fast and fly sometimes. Finding what you need is fun but when I die I would not like to have to re-put them in again.
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by rarkenin » Tue Jan 01, 2013 15:55

This is just my personal opinion, but I think we need a permission, something like `nobones` which can be granted to none, some, or all players.
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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 15:57

rarkenin wrote:This is just my personal opinion, but I think we need a permission, something like `nobones` which can be granted to none, some, or all players.

That could be nice. What do others think?
 

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by Sokomine » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:13

How about a permission that allows players to change gamemode amongst those the server offers? Something not limited to the bones mod but useful for other mods as well. A server could offer anything from creative to PvP. There is enough room in Minetest worlds for all kind of players. A "nobones" priv would be too specific. Make it a more global solution that can be used by other mods as well. Even though that might be a small mod of its own. And please don't force players to play in a specific way (i.e. either full survival or full creative). I got Minecraft to run and was very annoyed by the monsters that where running around at night and kept interfering with my building. These creepers are like griefers on the loose...Minetest can do better than that. Make it (within the boundaries given by the server) the choice of the player.
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by jojoa1997 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:16

I say a nobones priv would be nice if it was added to the default. Then people could choose what they want.
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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:21

jojoa1997 wrote:I say a nobones priv would be nice if it was added to the default. Then people could choose what they want.

No, I dont want to add it to default. Only server admins should use this.
 

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by Chinchow » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:23

Sokomine wrote:How about a permission that allows players to change gamemode amongst those the server offers? Something not limited to the bones mod but useful for other mods as well. A server could offer anything from creative to PvP. There is enough room in Minetest worlds for all kind of players. A "nobones" priv would be too specific. Make it a more global solution that can be used by other mods as well. Even though that might be a small mod of its own. And please don't force players to play in a specific way (i.e. either full survival or full creative). I got Minecraft to run and was very annoyed by the monsters that where running around at night and kept interfering with my building. These creepers are like griefers on the loose...Minetest can do better than that. Make it (within the boundaries given by the server) the choice of the player.

I don't know what minecraft was thinking with creepers probably something like this
Guy one:Hey lets discourage griefing!
Guy two:Yeah and then make a mob that does it for them even in singleplayer
Guy one:Brilliant!
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by jojoa1997 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:26

Chinchow wrote:
Sokomine wrote:How about a permission that allows players to change gamemode amongst those the server offers? Something not limited to the bones mod but useful for other mods as well. A server could offer anything from creative to PvP. There is enough room in Minetest worlds for all kind of players. A "nobones" priv would be too specific. Make it a more global solution that can be used by other mods as well. Even though that might be a small mod of its own. And please don't force players to play in a specific way (i.e. either full survival or full creative). I got Minecraft to run and was very annoyed by the monsters that where running around at night and kept interfering with my building. These creepers are like griefers on the loose...Minetest can do better than that. Make it (within the boundaries given by the server) the choice of the player.

I don't know what minecraft was thinking with creepers probably something like this
Guy one:Hey lets discourage griefing!
Guy two:Yeah and then make a mob that does it for them even in singleplayer
Guy one:Brilliant!

They should have a GUI to shut off certain mobs.
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by Sokomine » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:37

Chinchow wrote:I don't know what minecraft was thinking with creepers probably something like this
Guy one:Hey lets discourage griefing!
Guy two:Yeah and then make a mob that does it for them even in singleplayer
Guy one:Brilliant!

*g* Right :) No need for griefers to do the work - they've been put out of work by npc :-)

[Edit] I won't mind if the bones mod is in default *if* it is the choice of each player if it's activated for that player or not.
Last edited by Sokomine on Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
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by jmf » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:44

PilzAdam wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:I say a nobones priv would be nice if it was added to the default. Then people could choose what they want.

No, I dont want to add it to default. Only server admins should use this.

Agree. If there is a nobone priv that would be good.
Server admins sometimes carry stuff that shouldn't be in the hands of "normal" people (stuff like command blocks).
When an admin dies and his connection doesn't work any more he failed and someone got all the admin stuff.
If you don't want to have bones in your survival game, just grant yourself nobones, if you don't want it in the server,
set it as standard priv at joining.
If this will be implemeted, i would be for the mod.
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by Casimir » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:52

jojoa1997 wrote:I say a nobones priv would be nice if it was added to the default. Then people could choose what they want.

That should be included in the bones mod itself.

This discussion brings an idea to my mind: A GUI for privs.
A lot of mods use them and even more could use privileges. You don't need to turn of and on certain mods themselves, don't need to delete them from minetest_game if you use privileges. They act a little bit like a settings menu.
So why don't make an ingame menu that provides easy access to them. You can keep track of all of them and don't need to type it all by hand.

So bones could be an optional thing without coding it in the default game, just privs added to the bones-mod. And when playing you press esc, click on "priv settings" and check "don't loose inventory at death".
 

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by jojoa1997 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:57

Casimir wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:I say a nobones priv would be nice if it was added to the default. Then people could choose what they want.

That should be included in the bones mod itself.

This discussion brings an idea to my mind: A GUI for privs.
A lot of mods use them and even more could use privileges. You don't need to turn of and on certain mods themselves, don't need to delete them from minetest_game if you use privileges. They act a little bit like a settings menu.
So why don't make an ingame menu that provides easy access to them. You can keep track of all of them and don't need to type it all by hand.

So bones could be an optional thing without coding it in the default game, just privs added to the bones-mod. And when playing you press esc, click on "priv settings" and check "don't loose inventory at death".

+∞
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by Iqualfragile » Tue Jan 01, 2013 17:16

xavier108 wrote:I dont like this mod many people are nerd stacking(people who make a pole out of dirt,cobble,gravel or any other stuff)just to get the bones.I remember I was adventuring for some ores but then i die in a lava.Know my diamonds that i collected and also the ores are gone.For short I got to go to no


when you die in lava you are
a) imo supposed to loose your items
b) not loosing your items when this mod is in use, how did you manage to do that?

i dont realy get why it would be a problem when players die to get those bones, if they want to build a graveyard it might be handy…

and: you wont magicaly loose your items… they will be there for you to regather, you even have alot of time to get them before anyone else is allowed to take them.

at the moment it just does not matter if you care about your health or not, if you die you will just be beemed to the spawn and nothing happened.
if this is what you want then you can just remove the health-bar alltogether. (thats easily possible, just PLAY IN CREATIVE)

@all server-admins/mods: its a one-liner to add a check if you have the keepitems permission wich allows you to respawn with all your stuff, so there is no posibilty a griefer could get your items, it would also be quite simple to add a "whitelist" wich contains all your mod-stuff and to make that stay in your inventory.
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by Sokomine » Tue Jan 01, 2013 17:31

That part where other players can get the stuff after 20 minutes or so might cause some trouble. Hostile players may kill others to steal their stuff. While just beeing respawned, that was more or less a nuiscance. If it gets default, there will be more work for mods to handle players that killed others and stole their belongings (or caused them even more time loss since they had to pick up their stuff).
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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 17:38

A minor update: If share_bones_time is set to 0 it is completly disabled. So server admins can disable this feature to prevent conflicts between players and there is still a challenge wich die.
If they want to completly disable the bones spawning they can just remove this mod from minetest_game.
 

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by 0gb.us » Tue Jan 01, 2013 19:51

PilzAdam wrote:Thats not a bug. Polite players can go underground to die so that other players dont have to make a funeral ;-)


A fair point. In that case, could the node that gets replaced by bones be added to the bones inventory? That way, rare blocks wouldn't be lost just because someone died to inside them, which often happens on laggy servers. If so, it should probably check if the node is buildable_to, so air, lava, and water don't end up in the bones inventory.

PilzAdam wrote:Yea, its better this way.


Better which way? Your comment sounds like it's better if bones can be harvested while they still have items in them, but Github says you switched the code to disallow that as I had suggested.

EDIT: Also, this sort of replacing the nodes could be used to vandalize people's property, even if the vandal has no interact privilege.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Tue Jan 01, 2013 21:37, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by PilzAdam » Tue Jan 01, 2013 22:42

0gb.us wrote:
PilzAdam wrote:Yea, its better this way.


Better which way? Your comment sounds like it's better if bones can be harvested while they still have items in them, but Github says you switched the code to disallow that as I had suggested.

I was refering to your posts. Sorry if I was unclear.

0gb.us wrote:EDIT: Also, this sort of replacing the nodes could be used to vandalize people's property, even if the vandal has no interact privilege.

If people want to die to grief peoples homes. And its also not very easy to die inside a node.
 

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by 0gb.us » Wed Jan 02, 2013 00:21

PilzAdam wrote:If people want to die to grief peoples homes. And its also not very easy to die inside a node.


Okay, just bringing up potential issues. If you've already thought of this, and deemed it as not a threat, then that's fine with me.

EDIT: So many grammatical errors and left out words. I was distracted when I wrote it. Post fixed.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Wed Jan 02, 2013 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Splizard » Wed Jan 02, 2013 05:09

Wow at the time of writing exactly 50% votes each.
I voted no as I don't like bones being a node I wouldn't mind if it was an
entity with the appearance of a dead player. Though I don't think that is possible yet...
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by 0gb.us » Wed Jan 02, 2013 09:08

Splizard wrote:Wow at the time of writing exactly 50% votes each.
I voted no as I don't like bones being a node I wouldn't mind if it was an
entity with the appearance of a dead player. Though I don't think that is possible yet...


I think it is possible actually, but too many entities causes lag for slow servers or clients.

In addition, as a node, it provides something that default Mine test is sorely lacking: a renewable solid non-flammable node to build with. In addition, building cemeteries would be more feasible with nodes rather than entities.
 

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by 0gb.us » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:23

Okay, further testing showed some issues.

First, anything in the crafting grid is lost when you die. In the code, it looks like things in your crafting grid are supposed to be added to the bones' inventory, but for whatever reason, it doesn't work as expected.

Second, it turns out using bones for vandalism is viable after all. Try to break someone's locked chest, and stand where the chest is, before the server responds saying the chest is still there. Next, dump lava on your head. The chest keeps you safe if you stand still, but with short jumps, you can get the lava to kill you while you are considered to be in the chest, and the victim's locked chest and gear are destroyed. I tested this, and it CAN be done. I imaging something similar can be done with steel doors, but have not tested.

As you said, taking out large portions of buildings this way would take forever, but taking out large amounts of stored items is actually quite easy.
 

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