[Mod] Grasses [0.1.8] [dryplants]

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by Neuromancer » Post

I'm a little confused. so the sample full image file used to be 48x48. Do you start with that or do you start with a 64x64 image?
Or the size of the image in your example here is 128x128?
Then you manually chop it up in a paint program and save it into these 9 png files that you list above?

Here were my original assumpmtions. You start with a 48x48 image. Then you manually chop it up into 9 images in your paint program and save each
dryplants_reedmace_top_left.png from 0,0 to 16,16
dryplants_reedmace_spikes.png from 17,0 to 32,16
dryplants_reedmace_top_right.png from 33,0 to 48,16

dryplants_reedmace_left.png from 0,17 to 16,32
dryplants_reedmace.png from 17,17, to 32,32
dryplants_reedmace_right.png from 33,17 to 48, 32

dryplants_reedmace_bottom_left.png from 0, 33 to 16,48
dryplants_reedmace_bottom.png from 17,33 to 32,48
dryplants_reedmace_bottom_right.png from 33, 33 to 48, 48

then you use the combine statement in the lua to say where you want the image files displayed relative to each other. That is where you would use the 8,8 etc.
Last edited by Neuromancer on Wed Sep 11, 2013 01:48, edited 1 time in total.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Neuromancer wrote:I'm a little confused. so the sample full image file used to be 48x48. Do you start with that or do you start with a 64x64 image?
The sample image still is 48x48. It is cut into 9 textures (manually).
The 64x64 surface is only used in the code/game.
Neuromancer wrote:Or the size of the image in your example here is 128x128?
I only enlarged the pic so you wouldn't have to zoom in. Sorry for the confusion.
Neuromancer wrote:Then you manually chop it up in a paint program and save it into these 9 png files that you list above?
Exactly
Neuromancer wrote:Here were my original assumpmtions. You start with a 48x48 image. Then you manually chop it up into 9 images in your paint program and save each
dryplants_reedmace_top_left.png from 0,0 to 16,16
dryplants_reedmace_spikes.png from 17,0 to 32,16
dryplants_reedmace_top_right.png from 33,0 to 48,16

dryplants_reedmace_left.png from 0,17 to 16,32
dryplants_reedmace.png from 17,17, to 32,32
dryplants_reedmace_right.png from 33,17 to 48, 32

dryplants_reedmace_bottom_left.png from 0, 33 to 16,48
dryplants_reedmace_bottom.png from 17,33 to 32,48
dryplants_reedmace_bottom_right.png from 33, 33 to 48, 48

then you use the combine statement in the lua to say where you want the image files displayed relative to each other. That is where you would use the 8,8 etc.
That's almost correct.
It's:
0,0 to 15,15
16,0 to 31,15
...
But I'm quite sure that's what you meant. ;)
For the code, of the 3 nodes high plant, you add 8 to the coordinates of the upper left corner, yes.
For the 2 nodes high plant it's 24 for the vertical value...

Hope this isn't even more confusing.
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Last edited by Mossmanikin on Wed Sep 11, 2013 03:06, edited 1 time in total.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Evergreen wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Evergreen wrote:If you need any textures for this, I would be glad to help.
Awesome, the more people we have working at this, the better our textures will be. What kinds of textures do you think you want to work on?
I don't really care, just tell me some of the ones you need, and I'll see what I can do.
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by Neuromancer » Post

@Evergreen:
To be honest I think that Mossmanikin has achieved perfection with a couple versions of his juncus textures already. And the reedmace is looking really good. I'd say work on whatever inspires you. Personally I think that between the 3 of us we should set our goals really high. We should try to take the look of Minetest to a whole new level. I think the thing that really hurts the game's realism is the look of the grass on dirt nodes. If you go to real unspoiled land, it doesn't look like the mowed lawn effect that we get with grass on dirt. For example in a woods or forest, no grass grows. Instead you see dirt with roots and decaying leaves, with sporadic plants here and there. We should try to do this. If there are a bunch of tree trunks and leaves around, replace "dirt with grass" with "dirt with roots". The other thing is that where there aren't trees, there are long grasses and other wild plants/weeds everywhere. I think Minecraft get's the idea a little by having a lot more long grasses spawned than Minetest, and put a lot more effort into making those textures look good. But we should go farther creating patches of grasses that are green on the bottom, and yellow on top with brown dried out weeds sticking up in places. There should be whole patches of brown weeds. There should also be large bushes 3x3x2tall and some even larger than this. I like the idea of experimenting with using both plantlike textures for branches and leaf nodes for bush leaves. I also like the idea of single nodes containing multiple colorful prairie plants. As Mossmanikin pointed out all this could hurt performance, but I think it wont hurt nearly as much as moretrees. And if needed we could split it into separate Mods so people could take just those things that they love (large bushes, treeroots, prairie plants). Do any of these ideas sound interesting to you, or do you have some of your own you'd like to have us work on?
Last edited by Neuromancer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 00:24, edited 1 time in total.

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by Evergreen » Post

Neuromancer wrote:@Evergreen:
To be honest I think that Mossmanikin has achieved perfection with a couple versions of his juncus textures already. And the reedmace is looking really good. I'd say work on whatever inspires you. Personally I think that between the 3 of us we should set our goals really high. We should try to take the look of Minetest to a whole new level. I think the thing that really hurts the game's realism is the look of the grass on dirt nodes. If you go to real unspoiled land, it doesn't look like the mowed lawn effect that we get with grass on dirt. For example in a woods or forest, no grass grows. Instead you see dirt with roots and decaying leaves, with sporadic plants here and there. We should try to do this. If there are a bunch of tree trunks and leaves around, replace "dirt with grass" with "dirt with roots". The other thing is that where there aren't trees, there are long grasses and other wild plants/weeds. I think Minecraft get's the idea a little by having a lot more long grasses spawned than Minetest, and put a lot more effort into making those textures look good. But we should go farther creating patches of grasses that are green on the bottom, and yellow on top with brown dried out weeds sticking up in places. There should be whole patches of brown weeds. There should also be large bushes 3x3x2tall and some even larger than this. I like the idea of experimenting with using both plantlike textures for branches and leaf nodes for bush leaves. I also like the idea of nodes containing multiple colorful prairie plants. As Mossmanikin pointed out all this could hurt performance, but I think it wont hurt nearly as much as moretrees. And if needed we could split it into separate Mods so people could take just those things that they love (large bushes, treeroots, prarie plants).
Those are great ideas, it might be a lot easier(and faster) when mapgen v7 is released, with biomes, decorations and such.
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by Neuromancer » Post

@Mossmanikin:
I think you achieved perfection with the most recent juncus, and I like the one a couple versions ago with the yellow in it even more. They are works of art, there is no part of me that doubts it is a real plant that somehow was translated into pixels. It is my favorite texture ever, even better than the ferns. I think the reason we struggle with perfecting the reedmace is that everyone knows what it looks like because it is such a common iconic plant, and so when aspects of your texture differ even slightly from people's memories of cattails, it is more obvious. That being said I think you have made huge progress on it, and it is more than good enough as it is. I actually really liked the sample 128x128 texture that you showed me as an example of how to chop up into 9 pieces. The greens were bolder and there was a yellow hue to them that is good. It might be too harsh when viewed in game, and so maybe halfway between that and your latest texture which is much softer hues would be a good compromise.

Edit: Whoa. I tried the textures from the 128x128 sample. They were way too bright, too neon. Have to go darker and softer for sure.
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Last edited by Neuromancer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 03:20, edited 1 time in total.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Evergreen wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:@Evergreen:
To be honest I think that Mossmanikin has achieved perfection with a couple versions of his juncus textures already. And the reedmace is looking really good. I'd say work on whatever inspires you. Personally I think that between the 3 of us we should set our goals really high. We should try to take the look of Minetest to a whole new level. I think the thing that really hurts the game's realism is the look of the grass on dirt nodes. If you go to real unspoiled land, it doesn't look like the mowed lawn effect that we get with grass on dirt. For example in a woods or forest, no grass grows. Instead you see dirt with roots and decaying leaves, with sporadic plants here and there. We should try to do this. If there are a bunch of tree trunks and leaves around, replace "dirt with grass" with "dirt with roots". The other thing is that where there aren't trees, there are long grasses and other wild plants/weeds. I think Minecraft get's the idea a little by having a lot more long grasses spawned than Minetest, and put a lot more effort into making those textures look good. But we should go farther creating patches of grasses that are green on the bottom, and yellow on top with brown dried out weeds sticking up in places. There should be whole patches of brown weeds. There should also be large bushes 3x3x2tall and some even larger than this. I like the idea of experimenting with using both plantlike textures for branches and leaf nodes for bush leaves. I also like the idea of nodes containing multiple colorful prairie plants. As Mossmanikin pointed out all this could hurt performance, but I think it wont hurt nearly as much as moretrees. And if needed we could split it into separate Mods so people could take just those things that they love (large bushes, treeroots, prarie plants).
Those are great ideas, it might be a lot easier(and faster) when mapgen v7 is released, with biomes, decorations and such.
I also like these ideas a lot. Inspired by them I added an option to generate a lot of more tall grass (enabled by default). Game runs smoother than expected with it.
Amount of plants can be changed by the user in settings.txt.
Neuromancer wrote:@Mossmanikin:
I think you achieved perfection with the most recent juncus, and I like the one a couple versions ago with the yellow in it even more. They are works of art, there is no part of me that doubts it is a real plant that somehow was translated into pixels. It is my favorite texture ever, even better than the ferns. I think the reason we struggle with perfecting the reedmace is that everyone knows what it looks like because it is such a common iconic plant, and so when aspects of your texture differ even slightly from people's memories of cattails, it is more obvious. That being said I think you have made huge progress on it, and it is more than good enough as it is. I actually really liked the sample 128x128 texture that you showed me as an example of how to chop up into 9 pieces. The greens were bolder and there was a yellow hue to them that is good. It might be too harsh when viewed in game, and so maybe halfway between that and your latest texture which is much softer hues would be a good compromise.

Edit: Whoa. I tried the textures from the 128x128 sample. They were way too bright, too neon. Have to go darker and softer for sure.
New downloadable version is up.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Update (0.1.4)
- Reedmace has different shapes/textures
- New plant: small Juncus
- more Tall Grass
- more Options in settings.txt (change the amount of plants)

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by Neuromancer » Post

Mossmanikin wrote:Update (0.1.4)
- Reedmace has different shapes/textures
- New plant: small Juncus
- more Tall Grass
- more Options in settings.txt (change the amount of plants)
Wow, this is exactly what I was envisioning. It really makes the terrain seem rugged and wild. We might want to improve the grasses textures because they are so common, but they aren't that bad as they are. I kind of like the silvery tips, especially in the moonlight. Variety of the Reedmace and juncus is a big plus also. Grasses mod is every bit as good if not better than the ferns mod now. Would you agree? Liked it so much, had to add it to the Immersive Fun game.
Last edited by Neuromancer on Fri Sep 13, 2013 01:29, edited 1 time in total.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Neuromancer wrote:
Mossmanikin wrote:Update (0.1.4)
- Reedmace has different shapes/textures
- New plant: small Juncus
- more Tall Grass
- more Options in settings.txt (change the amount of plants)
Wow, this is exactly what I was envisioning. It really makes the terrain seem rugged and wild. We might want to improve the grasses textures because they are so common, but they aren't that bad as they are. I kind of like the silvery tips, especially in the moonlight. Variety of the Reedmace and juncus is a big plus also. Grasses mod is every bit as good if not better than the ferns mod now. Would you agree? Liked it so much, had to add it to the Immersive Fun game.
Yes, I love wild.
I was thinking about editing the tall grass, so it's a bit bigger, like the small juncus.
In real life there's a lot of grasses, all around us.
Now in Minetest too.
Don't know if it's better than the ferns mod, but the change is bigger, no doubt about that.

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by Neuromancer » Post

I have an idea for forest roots. At first I was thinking they would be like grass on dirt, just the top of a regular block. But then I thought wouldn't it be cooler to create really short plant like nodes on top of them to make the roots stick out of the ground. Also I thought that it might also be good to use regular block nodes with roots drawn along 1 or 2 edges in an "L" shape and everything else transparent. This could create a nice 3-d effect for roots. Not sure if forest tree roots fits in with this Grasses Mod, but it is a cool nature effect. I'm thinking the ground in a forest would be darker because of the richness of the soil caused by the rotting leaves.

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by Neuromancer » Post

Here's the concept for Bushes:
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Last edited by Neuromancer on Sat Sep 14, 2013 00:07, edited 1 time in total.

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by VanessaE » Post

I like these plants, but I have to wonder: How would I go about texturing them for HDX? They seem like they're locked to specific pixel sizes?

Also, is this mod compatible with default farming (which causes wild grass and junglegrass to drop seeds)?
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Neuromancer wrote:I have an idea for forest roots. At first I was thinking they would be like grass on dirt, just the top of a regular block. But then I thought wouldn't it be cooler to create really short plant like nodes on top of them to make the roots stick out of the ground. Also I thought that it might also be good to use regular block nodes with roots drawn along 1 or 2 edges in an "L" shape and everything else transparent. This could create a nice 3-d effect for roots. Not sure if forest tree roots fits in with this Grasses Mod, but it is a cool nature effect. I'm thinking the ground in a forest would be darker because of the richness of the soil caused by the rotting leaves.
Neuromancer wrote:Here's the concept for Bushes:
Love your idea, but this wouldn't really fit into the grasses mod.
Maybe we should make a new mod called "undergrowth" or something like that.

Did some testing with grass variation. The result (unintentionally) looks a bit like dry leaves on grass.
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by Mossmanikin » Post

VanessaE wrote:I like these plants, but I have to wonder: How would I go about texturing them for HDX? They seem like they're locked to specific pixel sizes?

Also, is this mod compatible with default farming (which has wild grass and junglegrass dropping seeds)?
In settings.txt one can enter the resolution of the textures used for the plants.
In the code this entry is used.
So theoretically 1x1-512x512 can be used.
Won't work if one doesn't have all the needed textures with the same resolution for each.
Didn't really test other resolutions though.

While testing and playing with this mod I got a lot of seeds.
I didn't change "default:grass_*" or "default:junglegrass".

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by Evergreen » Post

Mossmanikin wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:I have an idea for forest roots. At first I was thinking they would be like grass on dirt, just the top of a regular block. But then I thought wouldn't it be cooler to create really short plant like nodes on top of them to make the roots stick out of the ground. Also I thought that it might also be good to use regular block nodes with roots drawn along 1 or 2 edges in an "L" shape and everything else transparent. This could create a nice 3-d effect for roots. Not sure if forest tree roots fits in with this Grasses Mod, but it is a cool nature effect. I'm thinking the ground in a forest would be darker because of the richness of the soil caused by the rotting leaves.
Neuromancer wrote:Here's the concept for Bushes:
Love your idea, but this wouldn't really fit into the grasses mod.
Maybe we should make a new mod called "undergrowth" or something like that.

Did some testing with grass variation. The result (unintentionally) looks a bit like dry leaves on grass.
I really want to start helping with this soon, I don't know much about how to use mapgen atm, and it's going to be replaced soon anyway.
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by VanessaE » Post

Mossmanikin wrote: In settings.txt one can enter the resolution of the textures used for the plants.
In the code this entry is used.
So theoretically 1x1-512x512 can be used.
Won't work if one doesn't have all the needed textures with the same resolution for each.
Bummer. So basically impossible to support in a non-16px texture pack then.

Is this because the plants are wider/taller than one node?
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Evergreen wrote:I really want to start helping with this soon, I don't know much about how to use mapgen atm, and it's going to be replaced soon anyway.
I'd love to collaborate with you. :)
Actually I don't know much about mapgen too, only used plants_lib so far.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Mossmanikin wrote: In settings.txt one can enter the resolution of the textures used for the plants.
In the code this entry is used.
So theoretically 1x1-512x512 can be used.
Won't work if one doesn't have all the needed textures with the same resolution for each.
Bummer. So basically impossible to support in a non-16px texture pack then.

Is this because the plants are wider/taller than one node?
Well, it's not done by simply making/using bigger/smaller textures.
One has to edit the settings.txt first.

Yes, it's because of "[combine".
The problem is: the size of the surface on which the textures will be combined is in pixels, not in textures.

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by VanessaE » Post

Is there any way you can avoid using that function in building your nodes? I'd really love to add this to my server and support it in HDX. :-)
You might like some of my stuff: Plantlife ~ More Trees ~ Home Decor ~ Pipeworks ~ HDX Textures (64-512px)

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by Mossmanikin » Post

VanessaE wrote:Is there any way you can avoid using that function in building your nodes? I'd really love to add this to my server and support it in HDX. :-)
I'll see what I can do. :)
In case I can't find a way to do this, in a way I personally like (which is quite likely), I will upload a different version which supports higher resolutions without having to edit the settings.

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by Neuromancer » Post

Mossmanikin wrote: Love your idea, but this wouldn't really fit into the grasses mod.
Maybe we should make a new mod called "undergrowth" or something like that.

Did some testing with grass variation. The result (unintentionally) looks a bit like dry leaves on grass.
Please create a topic as you see fit, either undergrowth, nature lab, or 1 each for bushes & roots. I've got a lot of ideas I want to try out and I don't want to clutter this topic with them. It may be that we won't succeed, but I said that about reedmace and this mod, and look how awesome you/we made it!

I love your grass variation! That looks so much more natural. There are places where grass grows only patchy (for example under trees). Then we need transitions to where there is bare earth and roots in the forest, rather than going from all green to all brown it is better to have some nodes with patchy mixture of dirt and grass. I think it might be good to have 2 types of patchy grass nodes. One that is mostly grass, and one that is mostly dirt. Then one that is all grass, and one that is all dirt that does not change to grass. We also do need all dirt nodes with some leaves and roots on them under trees and in forests. I can see patchy grass with roots and leaves on it under single trees or edges of forests.
Last edited by Neuromancer on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:02, edited 1 time in total.

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by Neuromancer » Post

Evergreen wrote:I really want to start helping with this soon, I don't know much about how to use mapgen atm, and it's going to be replaced soon anyway.
You should maybe just start throwing in your half finished ideas, texture, code, whatever now. The way Mossmanikin goes he may have complete mods in a day or two! Plus I'm hoping our ideas and proof of concept textures will inspire each other.
Last edited by Neuromancer on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:08, edited 1 time in total.

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by Mossmanikin » Post

Neuromancer wrote:Please create a topic as you see fit, either undergrowth, nature lab, or 1 each for bushes & roots. I've got a lot of ideas I want to try out and I don't want to clutter this topic with them. It may be that we won't succeed, but I said that about reedmace and this mod, and look how awesome you/we made it!
Created a topic here
Neuromancer wrote:I love your grass variation! That looks so much more natural. There are places where grass grows only patchy (for example under trees). Then we need transitions to where there is bare earth and roots in the forest, rather than going from all green to all brown it is better to have some nodes with patchy mixture of dirt and grass. I think it might be good to have 2 types of patchy grass nodes. One that is mostly grass, and one that is mostly dirt. Then one that is all grass, and one that is all dirt that does not change to grass. We also do need all dirt nodes with some leaves and roots on them under trees and in forests. I can see patchy grass with roots and leaves on it under single trees or edges of forests.
A lot of great ideas. I'd say we do some of it in this mod and the forest soils in the undergrowth mod.
Some dry grass would also be nice.

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Nice

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