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Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 16:15
by LMD
It says :
1. Put the following entries in your minetest server configuration:

enable_remote_media_server = true
remote_media = http://minetestmedia.foo-projects.org/


Is "minetest server configuration" = minetest.conf ? Is the setting "enable_remote_media_server" still required ? (I couldn't find it in the settings manager). Do I need to use "minetestserver" or shouldn't starting the server using the GUI also suffice ? Thanks in advance for your help.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 16:27
by Walker
> Is "minetest server configuration" = minetest.conf ?

yes

> Is the setting "enable_remote_media_server" still required ?

yes

> (I couldn't find it in the settings manager).

you can simply add the line in the file

> Do I need to use "minetestserver" or shouldn't starting the server using the GUI also suffice ? Thanks in advance for your help.

you have three ways

1. > "minetestserver" in the Console
2. > "minetest" in the Console with the "--server" parameter ( this is the way, i do this ^^ )
3. > "minetest" with GUI and than > "host Server"

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 17:29
by sofar


You should use `https` instead. (The forum lost the edits I made several weeks ago that changed it to https).

All minetest clients that support libcurl support https/SSL. Libcurl is required for remote media support in the client.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 17:46
by sofar
Did a little checking, and
Code: Select all
enable_remote_media_server
is only used in the *client* and not the server.

It defaults to
Code: Select all
true
already, so it can just be omitted. Therefore, the only thing you need to do for your server is to set the
Code: Select all
remote_media
option to the correct URL.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 07:20
by Nigel
Hi sofar, firstly thanks for this service.

I will be giving it a try on my server W E I R D W O R L D after it's next restart, but I have many changed images and have run optipng over many of them, so I'm not sure if you will relieve my load on new users joining ;-)

But, in any case, thanks again for offering this.

Server url: minetest.e-it.gr:30003 ip: 85.159.215.153:30003

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 14:50
by sofar
Nigel wrote:but I have many changed images and have run optipng over many of them


I would generally advise against doing this, for the very very simple reason that it usually doesn't buy you much speed anyway. If the size different is significant, it's worth submitting the changes back to the upstream mod so everyone can benefit. Then the PRMS will also get the changes again automatically.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 15:22
by LMD
I would assume that this involves the common storage vs CPU trade-off - if you optimize (or even compress using for example gzip) your PNGs, you of course have less bytes to transfer, but decoding also becomes harder and takes it's time...

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 21:31
by sofar
LMD wrote:I would assume that this involves the common storage vs CPU trade-off - if you optimize (or even compress using for example gzip) your PNGs, you of course have less bytes to transfer, but decoding also becomes harder and takes it's time...


Theoretically, but I doubt this is measurable. Most PNG's are under 1 block in size in minetest.

The biggest problem is convenience: You're essentially keeping modified files in your downloaded mods, and you'd have to redo this every time your modules update. Plus it would make the media server useless for the purpose you'd use it for.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:45
by Lejo
Your ssl certifacte is outdated please fix this!

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 20:20
by sofar
Lejo wrote:Your ssl certifacte is outdated please fix this!


I apologise! It's fixed now, clients should be happy again :)

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 21:22
by LMD
Lejo1 has apparently made his own Media Server implementation. Could you take a look to check if it works ?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22825&p=351142#p351142

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 04:54
by sofar
LMD wrote:Lejo1 has apparently made his own Media Server implementation. Could you take a look to check if it works ?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22825&p=351142#p351142


It looks like a garbage implementation from a 20 second glance.

He is sending each MT client that connects an 875KB file. Every, single, client, Every time they miss 1 media file. My implementation would only send ~30 bytes or so if only 1 file is needed from the server.

I ... don't understand why people are making inadequate solutions if a feature rich, open source and efficient implementation exist. A static index.mth is a ridiculous way to waste internet bandwidth and make MT clients do more work for no reason. Especially for a public service.

But, why do you ask me if it *works*? There is literally no reason for me to do so. People using the PRMS will have zero contact with his server or his implementation, and I will likely never use it. If people are stupid enough to use his remote media server, they must really not want people playing on their servers.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 08:35
by Lejo
It's true that my media server sends a lot unneeded data.
My Problem was just that your media server doesn't contain all medias which is partly impossible because some old images doesn't exist in any git repo.

That's the reason why I created my collection of medias. It contains all skins from here + all medias form all servers on the serverlist(Created a join bot.)

So I would like to ask you if you maybe could at these medias to your media server to make this service more useful for others.
You don't need to add it as a git repo to your list. I would add it as your media folder to the webserver and just enable media copying instead of linking.

Currently this are 64k medias of a size of 761MB
I hope you could spend this storage for much more compatible servers.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:23
by BuckarooBanzay
Lejo wrote:It's true that my media server sends a lot unneeded data.
My Problem was just that your media server doesn't contain all medias which is partly impossible because some old images doesn't exist in any git repo.

That's the reason why I created my collection of medias. It contains all skins from here + all medias form all servers on the serverlist(Created a join bot.)

So I would like to ask you if you maybe could at these medias to your media server to make this service more useful for others.
You don't need to add it as a git repo to your list. I would add it as your media folder to the webserver and just enable media copying instead of linking.

Currently this are 64k medias of a size of 761MB
I hope you could spend this storage for much more compatible servers.


So the "mediafetcher" was you? ;)

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:06
by Lejo
Yep

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 00:35
by sofar
Lejo wrote:It's true that my media server sends a lot unneeded data.
My Problem was just that your media server doesn't contain all medias which is partly impossible because some old images doesn't exist in any git repo.

That's the reason why I created my collection of medias. It contains all skins from here + all medias form all servers on the serverlist(Created a join bot.)

So I would like to ask you if you maybe could at these medias to your media server to make this service more useful for others.
You don't need to add it as a git repo to your list. I would add it as your media folder to the webserver and just enable media copying instead of linking.

Currently this are 64k medias of a size of 761MB
I hope you could spend this storage for much more compatible servers.


As I wrote in the other thread, scraping servers and publishing the media is a VIOLATION OF COPYRIGHT, for sure, for at least ITB's media (which I run and operate) and possibly dozens of other servers.

I'm giving you 48 hours to do the following:

(A) all of these:
- issue a notification to each server owner that you have in fact done this (and documentation supporting this).
- assure in cooperation with each server owner that you have in fact not copied, for sure, any proprietary media from each server (and documentation supporting this)
- removed all copies of media from any server owner that did not agree to you copying the media (and documentation supporting this)
- issue a statement that specifically states what media you have removed
- issue a statement that for servers where you were unable to contact the server owner, that you have removed any media specific to that server

Or,
(B) you could stop being a dumbass and remove all the scraped data and publish a list of verifyable sources for all remaining data that can be validated and checked, just like the PRMS does (https://minetestmedia.foo-projects.org/remotes).

I will not accept any hand-waiving here. You're showing a complete lack of judgement and I am not required to put up with it.

You have the choice here. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with this time.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 08:31
by Lejo
That's all true but the basic Problem is the media sending of the servers and remote servers itself
Theoretically the minetest server has to send with the media also the license or at least the author.
If that would be done I could save this licenses and redistribute them again.

It's not 100% Ok to have a list where you can check the licenses(For the most medias).
You have to pass the license by the media.

I just went one step forward and distributed medias without knowing the license which I should have given by the servers.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 14:24
by jas
Can you add https://github.com/jastevenson303/Lavaland ? (Please and thanks.)

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 17:10
by sofar
Lejo wrote:It's not 100% Ok to have a list where you can check the licenses(For the most medias).
You have to pass the license by the media.

I just went one step forward and distributed medias without knowing the license which I should have given by the servers.


You are willingly violating copyright. I just informed you. I also asked you to stop. Ever heard of triple damages?

Your perception of copyright is completely inaccurate. You can't just download images from HTTP servers and expect them to be 100% distributable. This has been fought in courts and the people who copied lost every single time. I need to google exactly seconds to find hundreds of examples.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 17:29
by Lejo
I agree I haven’t looked at that when doing this(I also removed the medias)

But doesn’t the server also needs to send the license to the client? That are the terms of distribution for the most open source licenses.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 21:54
by sofar
Lejo wrote:But doesn’t the server also needs to send the license to the client? That are the terms of distribution for the most open source licenses.


This is the same as copyrighted media on websites. The website owner can absolutely provide a copyright statement elsewhere on the server (e.g. a footer or a separate page). In the case of MT servers, there is often a webpage with info, and there are in-game messages and server rules that include copyright statements and licenses. And ITB does this. And it's entirely enforcable.

The short stick is - you can't just mirror websites and re-distribute content, period.

This is exactly why the PRMS does not scrape mods from servers or include mods and content which is not OSS.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 07:51
by Lejo
So all servers need to inform the clients about the media licenses on the server.
Just no server does that.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 17:18
by sofar
Lejo wrote:So all servers need to inform the clients about the media licenses on the server.
Just no server does that.


IF THERE IS NO LICENSE STATEMENT YOU HAVE NO LICENSE TO COPY. You can't just walk into an art store and take photographs of beautiful pictures that are on the walls, even though there is no clear license statement at all on the picture itself.

And I just told you ITB does this, despite it not legally needed. Also, this is getting really off topic here, and I'm already pretty fed up with your lax attitude, so, take the discussion elsewhere, please.

Re: Public Remote Media Server Project

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 19:24
by Lejo
Ahhhhhh ok I just wonder what you answered to.
I know that I was wrong I just wonder how to care on normal Minetest servers.