[Game] Tutorial [3.4.0]

[addi]

addi wrote:isnt it possible to only use the world folder, with minetest_game, and copy all mods into the worldmods folder?

its just a idea


Ugh, no. That’s not possible. The world folder is only for world data.

no thats wrong, mods stored in /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/ will override the mods of the selected game.

so you can just use one wold that must be downloaded, and installed, wich is more easier than installing a game or a game + world

[rubenwardy]

Addi is correct.

[Sokomine]

Since Wuzzy asked in a PN for that: I am re-liscensing that part/extract of my cottages mod which is currently used in this tutorial world as GPLv2 so that it can be included/bundled with Minetest. The main/complete mod will stay GPLv3.
The textures are not created by myshelf. That ought to pose no problem - the minimal wood texture is part of the minimal default game, which is already bundled with Minetest; the textures from darkage are AFAIK WTFPL, and VanessaE granted permission for those textures done by her to be used under GPLv2 as well.

[gamergardencat]

I agree with Addi. This can readily be distributed by keeping all the mods in the /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/. Carbone et al. could take advantage of the world and mods that comes with it.

[Wuzzy]

It would be a good idea to make movement speed faster (or add a /speed command), it gets tedious to move around due to the slow movement speed.

Rejected. This would break a few sections, which have been carefully optimized for the default walking speed. If I change the walking speed, I would have to re-optimize all that, and I am not willing to do that.

But I do have had an idea to allow to teleport to different sections, which would make a few things easier.

What about using the textures new (grass, cobblestone, dirt, …) found in latest minetest_game Git?

Rejected. The difference is not important enough to me. Also, this makes Tutorial World further look different from the default game, which is good. If Tutorial World looks too similar to minetest_game, this could be confusing.

no thats wrong, mods stored in /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/ will override the mods of the selected game.

OK, thanks. This is quite surprising. Whatever. But I see another technical problem with this idea: If I distribute all neccessary mods in the world, you still have to specify a subgame to play the world in. We can’t just require the user to pick a subgame, that would be ridiciulous. The user is about to learn Minetest and therefore it is unfair to expect to handle subgames correctly at this moment. And IMO this all just sounds like pointless refactoring to me; without any real benefit? My idea is that Minetest should just treat the tutorial subgame and Tutorial World as special cases and abstract the logic away from the user.


Okay, I can now also announce that all potential license problems have been dealt with. Sokomine already has publicly allowed me to GPLv2 for my fork and I got a PM from Dan Dancombe which allows me to distribute the Cottages mod under WTFPL. Now all licenses of the tutorial are GPLv2-compatible again.


Lastly, I thankfully take Calinou’s French translation. I am currently working on the German translation; I will include German in the next release. I will hope to include the unfinished French translation as well, after some testing.

[addi]

OK, thanks. This is quite surprising. Whatever. But I see another technical problem with this idea: If I distribute all neccessary mods in the world, you still have to specify a subgame to play the world in. We can’t just require the user to pick a subgame, that would be ridiciulous. The user is about to learn Minetest and therefore it is unfair to expect to handle subgames correctly at this moment. And IMO this all just sounds like pointless refactoring to me; without any real benefit? My idea is that Minetest should just treat the tutorial subgame and Tutorial World as special cases and abstract the logic away from the user.

What about minetest_game? or minimal it comes bundled wich each build so its the easiest, to base on it

[Wuzzy]

No, certainly not. I already have heavily modified the default mods and throwing in minetest_game just adds a lot of unneccessary cruft and forces Minetest to load a lot of unneeded data. I am not even sure if it would even work without breaking anything. And minimal would be pointless, too, it also just adds cruft, from my experience the minimal subgame also breaks formspecs.

Again, I have to ask what would be the benefit of shoehorning everything into that worldmods/ folder. It just complicates everything.
If I understood correctly, while worlds can have world mods, there can’t be completely self-sufficient worlds which bundle an entire subgame with them, right?

TL;DR: I am probably not changing the technical architecture of this tutorial, because it is pointless in my opinion.

[addi]

i dont see, what you problem is, it does not complicate it, it makes it much easier!

for all wich are intrested, in attachment is the 1.3 version of the world including all required mods in worldmods.

to install just download the zip and copy its content into worlds/ directory, start minetest, select "Tutorial World" and press play. thats all :-)

[Evergreen]

i dont see, what you problem is, it does not complicate it, it makes it much easier!

for all wich are intrested, in attachment is the 1.3 version of the world including all required mods in worldmods.

to install just download the zip and copy its content into worlds/ directory, start minetest, select "Tutorial World" and press play. thats all :-)

I think Wuzzy's point is that adding a seperate game makes it integrate much more nicely with minetest. And ideally, the new user won't have to install it themselves if it gets added to default minetest.

[MaxPower]

Still think the world should be generated automatically rather than expecting the user to copy it in the game folder, that way the player could create a new Tutorial game from fresh, or carry on an already started one

[Esteban]

Still think the world should be generated automatically rather than expecting the user to copy it in the game folder, that way the player could create a new Tutorial game from fresh, or carry on an already started one

That is the main idea of this. But in order for that to happen, it has to be included in the game. You can vote it to be added here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9116

[MaxPower]

That is the main idea of this. But in order for that to happen, it has to be included in the game. You can vote it to be added here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9116

Regardless if Tutorial game is shipped with minetest by default or not, the world should still be generated from mod/game rather than too ship it with game.

[Wuzzy]

But this would make it much harder for me to edit the world!
How do you think I or anyone else should now edit the world then?
For every change I want to make to the world, I would have it to extract to it from the subgame, install it as an actual world, edit it in Minetest and when I am finished I have to put the updated world back into the subgame again and clean up my worlds folder.
Additionally, the subgame now would have to distinguish when the player loads an existing world and when the player starts a new one. I don’t think Minetest provides any means for that now. At all.

This solution is way too complicated, it is astonishing.

Still think the world should be generated automatically rather than expecting the user to copy it in the game folder, that way the player could create a new Tutorial game from fresh, or carry on an already started one

I already said it many times: I am unwilling to change the architecture of the tutorial, since I am still convinced that the subgame+world architecture I chose is the most straight-forward and simplest to choose from. The reason for this is because I expect this tutorial to be bundled with Minetest.
This tutorial would be useless if it weren’t bundled with Minetest, as by the time the users are ready to handle worlds and subgames, they probably already know Minetest pretty well.
And I do not expect from the user to manually copy anything, I am expecting from Minetest to do all the work behind the stages.

Also, I have to stress another important fact: The tutorial should be started only under the following conditions:

• Creative mode is off
• Singleplayer mode is used
• Damage is on

If the settings differ, the tutorial does not work.

But the user can freely maniplate all 3 parameters. Treating the subgame Tutorial World as a world like any other subgame and world carries the problem that it lies in the responsibility of the user to start Tutorial World. However, as soon as Minetest does some integration work for the Tutorial, which may also include changes to the the main menu, all these problems can be solved. The other suggested “solutions” all fail to account for this, another reason why I reject them.

If the discussion about how to integrate the tutorial with Minetest doesn’t stop, I strongly suggest to use a seperate thread for this. I want to have this thread only about the tutorial itself. Maybe I would post my concrete ideas on how to integrate the tutorial into Minetest later.

And @addi: As I have feared: Your Tutorial World fork is broken. My console gets flooded with error messages about missing textures. So much for how easy it is. No, it’s not.

[Wuzzy]

Hi! Today I release version 1.4.0. This version includes a full and tested German translation. And a partial French translation (thanks, Calinou).
I will soon open a German thread to announce this, too.

Sadly, the French translation does not work. Every string which contains an accented character like “é” will cause Minetest to show “<invalid multibyte string>”. I included the texts anyways to make progress easier. I don’t think I can do anything about it, because Minetest still does not have actual UTF-8 support. :-(

I made a tiny change to a translation template; I removed a newline from the sign text “basic_end”. This should not invalidate any existing translations. (I edited the French template for that as well).

That’s all what changed. I guess for the next update I’ll edit some source texts slightly because I have spotted some factual mistakes in them.

[Esteban]

Do you have plans on adding a spanish translation?

[Krock]

Do you have plans on adding a spanish translation?

Go on, create it. I guess Wuzzy does not speak all languages.

[Esteban]

Do you have plans on adding a spanish translation?

Go on, create it. I guess Wuzzy does not speak all languages.

Okay! I will! :D
P.S. made a github account, yay!
edit:typos

[Wuzzy]

@Esteban: What is a “git account”?

I make a bugfix release: 1.4.1. Someone in the German thread reported a lot of error messages produced by the tutorial. I realized I had a lot of old rusty code in the default game, which is now deleted. I hope this version should fix it and get rid of those error messages.

[Esteban]

@Esteban: What is a “git account”?

Oops! I meant github account :P

[Wuzzy]

My thoughts on how to integrate the tutorial into Minetest are online: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10312

[srifqi]

Here for Indonesian.
https://github.com/srifqi/tutorial-locale-id
tutorial mod: partly done

[rubenwardy]

Moved.

[Wuzzy]

Version 1.5.0 is there!
Changelog:

• Extended the sneaking section: It know includes very brief instructions on how to jump higher by jumping while sneaking.
• Added incomplete Indonesian translation
• Fixed a few factual mistakes and typos in original strings. All templates (including those in the translations) have been updated, don’t worry.

List of sign text changes:

• sneak: added comma after “liquid”
• liquidtypes: “To the left” → “To the right”
• build: Added missing quotation mark
• items: “ledge” → “table”
• furnace: “ome fuels” → “Some fuels”
• death: just comma fixes
• basic_end: “ and won't give you anything special” → (deleted)
• tools: “are innumerable” → “is innumerable”

[napodan]

You have made a great job. I've just finished your tutorial and I learned a lot with it.

[Wuzzy]

Version 1.6.0 of my tutorial is there! This update has a couple of small changes and tweaks. Nothing too exciting.



Changelog:

• Reworked the sneaking section (see screenshot)
• Add sign in building section explaining how to build to usable blocks ([shift] + [right-click])
• A cup now shows an info text when you point it, it explains why the cup has been awarded
• Teleporting also sets viewing pitch and yaw accordingly (i.e. you’ll look to the cups when teleporting to the good-bye room)
• New menu icon
• Bug fix: Removed faulty crafting recipes
• Bug fix: Player now start with 10 hearts again (accidentally were 9.5)