[Game] Tutorial [3.0.2]

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Godo » Post

There is another missing S in the second sentence at line 257, so in my opinion it should be:

The time depends on the fuel type.\nSome fuels burn for a very short time, and others burn longer.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

Godo wrote:There is another missing S in the second sentence at line 257, so in my opinion it should be:

The time depends on the fuel type.\nSome fuels burn for a very short time, and others burn longer.
That was exactly what I was suggesting. Did you found another missing S elsewhere?

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

I finished the italian translation, but some text block don't appear translated.
They are: tools, items, liquids, furnace, sneaking and basic_end.
I double-checked and can't find my error yet.
Maybe someone can help?

https://framadrop.org/r/XUn3NE8vXe#7WCQ ... uon0tOTco=

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

...and here are the other italian-translated files.

https://framadrop.org/r/FiYAFPpmPu#p5Vl ... KtNvrD7w8=

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

Ok I found it.
The 'template.txt' file was somehow flawed, I had to use the german 'de.txt' file as a template to make my translations appear.
Here's the final tutorial translated file.
https://framadrop.org/r/fEORQ2EQCM#lNHX ... llPZvTUd4=
The other translated italian files are in the previous message.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

I fixed the typo and added the Italian translation into the repository (“mapgen” branch). Note that some strings from the default mod are missing (e.g. the ores and bouncy blocks; I haven't checked everything, but these are not important as these are only for editing mode).
I probably should update the translation system, these text files are very flimsy.

But I don't want to do any major updates on this before the item bug is fixed.
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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

Wuzzy wrote: the ores and bouncy blocks
Oh yes sorry.
I didn't translate it, since I don't know how 'ores' has been translated in my language in other games.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

Sorry Wuzzy, the download links for version 1.8.2/2.2.0 give 404 error.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by flauta » Post

I am experimenting the 'no object spawn' error as I read in this forum e.g. the apple-snatcher is not on the table as expected.
I'm pretty sure I deleted the old game and created a new one as recommended.
What else?

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

Oh crap! I try to figure out what has happened. Apparently the FTP server no longer lets me in. WTF?
If anyone knows how to contact jp (alias kilbith), please let me know.
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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Stix » Post

whats does FTP mean? also i think kilbith is still active on github.
Hey, what can i say? I'm the bad guy.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Godo » Post

FTP stands for "file transfer protocol". It is a fast way of transferring big or numerous files between a server and a pc.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

I have uploaded on a different server, hopefully it works this time.
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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

WHat about adding trees floating around the walls, in the void? would look like if you were in a castle.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Brian Gaucher » Post

So you wanted feedback from a newbie, I am one. And I lost everything I am writing here because I am not used to this forum.
Wuzzy wrote: But most importantly: It has yet to be seen how the tutorial will actually work. The actual audience is complete Minetest newbies, of course. I’ve got a lot of feedback in this thread, but I never have gotten feedback from actual Minetest newbies yet. Feedback from those would be invaluable for the Tutorial, but I can’t expect such feedback until the Tutorial is official part of Minetest. But don’t get me wrong: The feedback of you all was still pretty useful.
Why I am using Minetest
So I like playing Minecraft at my friend's house, relatives, etc. But I can't afford it, and I disagree with pirating. I ducked up "!a2 Minecraft" and restricted the results to Linux and open-source (these two conditions filter out all the undesirable results). I installed Minetest. I tried playing the default sub-game, found it boring, and difficult to get the hang. Eventually, I searched the forum for a sub-game. Found [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0].

My experience
So I downloaded it, tried pasting the contents into my games folder, didn't work, I eventually figured out it was a subgame and a world. I was then able to play it. I found this tutorial helpful, the start is good. But at the first cross-road, I had no idea where to go, I went to ladders. But in all, it was very helpful. I found all 13 gold bars, and 11 Diamonds. I did jumping-ladders-swimming-diving-crafting-smelting-items-mining-building-pointing-damage-sneaking, order as much as I can remember (they are not in perfect order, I missed one in this list it seems). I feel ready to download some other sub-games, or join servers.

Feedback
I found it very helpful. Maybe the pointing section could be done earlier, or have more logical paths to it. I also remember some sort of pvp and bows from Minecraft, don't know if Minetest has them. And also, the stable should have a way of visiting it, without using cobblestone to go over the wall. And that could be somewhere you can hide a diamond. And I did get stuck a few times in 3 deep holes, using cobblestone to get out. Maybe make them 2 deep. Also, please add a README.txt or README.md file to the archive and explain where to install each folder.

Next step for me
What sub-games or servers should I try next. And in Minecraft me and my friend started this giant obstacle course and maze combo, what mods would work well for making a sub-game out of it (making a sub-game in Minetest would be so much better than a mod and world in Minecraft).

Thanks for this tutorial.
Current projects: Making a CTF map, Learning C++, Learning Programmer's Dvorak

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

Thanks for the feedback! It's good to know you found it useful. You had minor confusions, but nothing which stopped the flow.
I agree with your complaint about pointing and the README. The other stuff is minor IMO.

The tutorial development has been halted.
I'm not motivated to do changes. The goal was to make this subgame part of the default installation. But this Tutorial got very harsh criticism from some developers so it has not been included so far. :-(

There's also one major bug which I can't fix because of another bug in Minetest which messes up item spawning. xD As long this bug is not fixed, I probably won't touch the tutorial.
Minetest actually has a combat system and it's also possible to have mobs. Combat is the one big thing missing in the tutorial, I planned to do it a long time ago. But I'm not in the mood.


As for subgames to play …
First of all, pretty much everyone agrees that Minetest Game sucks. xD At least without any mods. IMHO Minetest Game is not a complete game, but more a “build your own subgame”. It's not for everyone.

I personally like these subgames:
- Pixure
- Lord of the Test
- Farlands
- The Legend of Minetest
- rpgtest

We also have puzzle games:
- Inside the Box (A beautiful puzzle game in which you can also build your own puzzles. There are also a few parcour maps. Beware: Right now, this can only be played on a server.)
- Labyrinthus

My own (WIP) subgames are:
- MineClone 2
- Hades Revisited

But there are many other subgames and opinions will vary. But note that (like Minetest) most subgames (including those above) are incomplete and have bugs.

Finally, you can always just join a random server for a nice surprise. :D
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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Godo » Post

Personally I find it hard to imagine how one could make "harsh criticisms" on your tutorial world. So it is not perfect, so what? It is really helpful for a newbie, and that's its main purpose. Falling into a three-meter deep trap and having to figure out how to get out is what I would call a bonus, not a drawback. That sort of unexpected accident can teach newbies to be careful when exploring a new world, which is one of the things Minetest is about.

When I first installed Minestest the first thing I did was get lost. Then I looked for clay, and I couldn't find it anywhere. I couldn't see much point in the game until I came across your tutorial. As I told you some time ago, my kids loved it. As far as I'm concerned, it should have been made an official tutorial a long time ago, since there isn't anything better to replace it, and it really is necessary to have someone point out the way Minetest works.

I think the developers are making a big mistake by refusing to include it as part of the basic package, and I can't understand why they prefer to have people get frustrated at first because they don't understand how the game works. In my opinion, they should make it a feature of Minetest until they have something they consider much better to replace it. And making a much better tutorial is, again in my humble opinion, a daunting task.

I gave up long ago my project of making one to show newbies the next steps in the game (hunting for basic materials and building a basic house) because it was so much work and I had too little time. All the more reason for me to admire all the hard work that must have gone into making the tutorial world. So thank you so much again, Wuzzy. I will always feel in debt with you.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by rubenwardy » Post

Wuzzy wrote:But this Tutorial got very harsh criticism from some developers so it has not been included so far. :-(
This is simply not true, the majority of devs that commented on the including the Tutorial issue were in favour. The main person who objected was kilbith who is not a dev and never will be. There were two devs that didn't like the idea, and one gave their reasons:
PilzAdam wrote: - You claim to be "subgame-agnostic", but you teach stuff about furnaces and boats; these are game-specifc, since they are not engine features
- The layout is very confusing and I got lost and confused a lot
- Displaying all text on signs is very annoying; ideally I want to be able to try the things while still reading the text
- I had a lot of fun figuring stuff out on my own when I first played Minetest; going to the wiki and researching is part of the experience (and don't say "but you don't have to use the tutorial"; if there was a tutorial like this when I started playing I would have had a lot less fun)
- You teach a lot of stuff that is not important at all (e.g. third-person camera is one of the first signs, although its not important)
- It would be more useful if this was a minetest_game specific tutorial; learning one game is more useful and teaches the engine basics, too.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/is ... -188476203
A lot of PilzAdam's suggestions are certainly solvable.

Devs in favour: sofar, paramat, ShadowNinja, celeron55, kahrl, est31
Devs against: nerzhul, PilzAdam

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Wuzzy » Post

Just because kilbith is not a core developer doesn't mean the opinion does not exist. :P
Basically, the rationale was that frontloaded tutorials are bad. It was a rejection on principle.

I now agree that it's generally better to spread out the information. On the other hand, my tutorial is not that long.
Kilbith's big vision was the adoption of the tutor mod, but it's (sadly) still not finished and I haven't seen any subgame using it so far.

On the other hand, I have actual newbies giving positive feedback. I think the opionion of the newbies (i.e. the actual audience) matters a lot.

Anyway, as long as issue 4759 (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4759) is not resolved, I'm not touching this tutorial.
This single issue is currently the biggest blocker right now. Without this, the tutorial can definitely not be included, because the items might fail to spawn. (Note this doesn't mean I will instantly start to work on the tutorial when the issue is fixed. But it might lower my pessimism a bit.)

I agree that most of PilzAdam's points are adressable.
I still disagree that we need a Minetest Game tutorial. No, first we need a default subgame which doesn't suck, then we can talk. :P
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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

Wuzzy wrote:I haven't seen any subgame using it so far.
pliz Voxellar used it for months :P

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by Chem871 » Post

Voxellar is laggy for me.
What is SCP-055 again? I forgot.

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by azekill_DIABLO » Post

I know :s...

Pliz use lua client, not lua jit, at least to fix OOM errors...

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by AndroBuilder » Post

Hello

Is it possible to somehow integrate this subgame into my server as an area?

Some of the students that play on this educational server have not played MT/MC before. So it would be great to have this subgame as a teleport-station somewhere on my server-world.
Is there any way to do so?

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by AndroBuilder » Post

I forgot to mention that i would also translate this tutorial to german if needed/wanted

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Re: [Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

by hajo » Post

AndroBuilder wrote:integrate this subgame into my server as an area?
You can try:
* enable local-map-saving:
** in minetest.conf, set "enable_local_map_saving=true"
* enter tutorial-game
* note the active mods, explore
* exit

* select the local tutorial-world
* enable worldedit
* enable other needed mods
* enter that game, give yourself privs
* explore, look for "unknown nodes"
** if there are any, you missed some mod - exit & enable
* fly/dig to the corners of the area (eg. bottom-front-left & top-back-right)
* place markers with worldedit
* save

Now you should have the area as a worldedit-schematic,
that you can place anywhere in any other of your worlds.

Mods might need some tweaking,
eg. placing items/rewards when some condition is met.

Maybe basic_robot could fill in the gap,
with their puzzle-commands...

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