[REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by L-Dog » Post

Stop wasting Devs time with your Cry baby BS.. Please... They got some coding to do, they dont need crying babies at their feet begging

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Wuzzy » Post

I understand your anger, L-Dog, but the way HOW I implemented this, namely, via privileges, was dogshit because it potentially meant taking away the ONLY legit way for players to access coordinates on many servers, unless the admin of every server intervened. Many servers NEED coordinates to be visible, entire navigation systems have been built around that. It would have been an update that would take away something from players, so players might have been very hesitant to update. Actually, given that coordinates are so important on many creative and semi-creative servers, if this change would have made it into 5.4.0, it might have been the biggest rugpull in the history of Minetest. So I'm glad I pushed for a full revert after all.

THAT HAVING SAID, this is not the end of the line. The debug screen sucks, it should have never been abused for gameplay in the first place, but it's too late to change that now, given that many servers depend on it so hard.

There is currently a PR which does exactly the same that I did already, but instead of privileges, it uses a HUD flag. And this approach actually seems to work without the rugpull effect, because with this, nothing will change after an update, the admin must actively set the HUD flag for the change to take effect. So this has maximum compability and is much better. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12020

Besides, I like sorcerykid's suggetion with the variables very much. It would be a great addition to HUD elements and would make it much easier for games to build an actual interface so the debug screen would no longer be needed.

So I think #12020 in combination with variable text is the way to go.

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by L-Dog » Post

Wuzzy wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 01:30
I understand your anger, L-Dog, but the way HOW I implemented this, namely, via privileges, was dogshit because it potentially meant taking away the ONLY legit way for players to access coordinates on many servers, unless the admin of every server intervened. Many servers NEED coordinates to be visible, entire navigation systems have been built around that. It would have been an update that would take away something from players, so players might have been very hesitant to update. Actually, given that coordinates are so important on many creative and semi-creative servers, if this change would have made it into 5.4.0, it might have been the biggest rugpull in the history of Minetest. So I'm glad I pushed for a full revert after all.

THAT HAVING SAID, this is not the end of the line. The debug screen sucks, it should have never been abused for gameplay in the first place, but it's too late to change that now, given that many servers depend on it so hard.

There is currently a PR which does exactly the same that I did already, but instead of privileges, it uses a HUD flag. And this approach actually seems to work without the rugpull effect, because with this, nothing will change after an update, the admin must actively set the HUD flag for the change to take effect. So this has maximum compability and is much better. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12020

Besides, I like sorcerykid's suggetion with the variables very much. It would be a great addition to HUD elements and would make it much easier for games to build an actual interface so the debug screen would no longer be needed.

So I think #12020 in combination with variable text is the way to go.

Maybe i was TOOOOOOOO Angry.... but the debug is used by all the bad players to DO BAD

im sorry if i offended anyone

-_-

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Otter » Post

On some servers, debug coordinates seem to be there for some users and not all on 5.5. *** Skyblock *** by Telesight I don't have debug coordinates now, but a lot of other players do. I tried several versions of minetest and for me nothing. On a lot of other servers I do have coordinates.

I like to build large things. Not having altitude and distance between sections makes this error filled pain. So for me, servers that I have loved are no longer options to build on.

I remember when I was new to the game and was still figuring things out, getting lost for hours of game play and never being able to find things. I played that, and I am tired of that game. Now that it is back as a possibility, I will try a new server and If I don't have coordinates in some form, I will be out of there fast.

I often use debug to check on my connection. Sometimes I am building away and none of what I am doing is being recorded on the server. I can understand an admin wanting to limit players. But I have played that game and it gets old fast. Unless I am given a challenge that does not involve extra grinding, notes and counting, I am out of there. If an admin can make it fun and has a reason for the limits, then I might play the game, but if the admin just wants to make it more of a pain and thinks that will be better, then I am not going to waste my spare time when the point is to have fun.

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Wuzzy » Post

Wait, this happens in 5.5? This is weird, because the debug coordinates should NOT be revokable in that version. The revokability was removed just before release. Are you sure it's actually a stable 5.5.0 and not a random dev version?

Because in 5.5.0, you should always has F5 debug coords no matter what. Strange. o_O
Can you be more precise, please?

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Otter » Post

Here is an image of it.
Reflected Lake.jpg
Reflected Lake.jpg (143 KiB) Viewed 7874 times
The work I did here was already insane without fly. Without coordinates, I wouldn't even attempt it.

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Otter » Post

I downloaded 5.6 from sfan5's builds and it solved it for me.
https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by rubenwardy » Post

Otter wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 21:03
Here is an image of it. Reflected Lake.jpg

The work I did here was already insane without fly. Without coordinates, I wouldn't even attempt it.
You were using a development version of Minetest before 5.5 was released, and before the feature was reverted. Not Minetest 5.5.0
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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by AiTechEye » Post

finally we can send players to unknown locations and keep secrets

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by LMD » Post

Perhaps worth noting that this feature is available in 5.6.0-dev again using a HUD-flag-based implementation.
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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Wuzzy » Post

Yes, but it’s not exactly the same. The disallowing of the debug coordinates will come back indeed, but it's implemented in a much more reasonable way. It will be properly backwards-compatible. Meaning if a server or game does nothing after an update, nothing will change for the players. A server operator (or game) must *actively* disable the debug coords for this to take effect. I’m in favor of this (and it’s already merged).
Also, the new method uses HUD flags instead of privileges.

My original implementation was bad because of bad backwards-compability, it would’ve removed debug screens from players with no intervention of the game or server operator at all, which might have been a very unpleasant surprise for many.

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Thank goodness.

by Tim790 » Post

This shit got cancelled.
Yeet.

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Re: Thank goodness.

by LMD » Post

Tim790 wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 00:07
This shit got cancelled.
As said, it wasn't "cancelled" but rather reimplemented cleanly as to not break compatibility.
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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Tim790 » Post

This :this: is :is: a :a: shit :shit: feature :feature:
Yeet.

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by LMD » Post

Tim790 wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 22:58
This :this: is :is: a :a: shit :shit: feature :feature:
Get mature.
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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Burkhaalt » Post

Tim790 wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 22:58
This :this: is :is: a :a: shit :shit: feature :feature:
No. Nice shitpost tho

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by c56 » Post

personally if this ever gets to the core ( and is enabled by default instead of a setting that overides preferences like shadows (i dont like the decission to have a mod needed to turn them on i would want a mod to overidde the settings instead of setting a default )
i will use some CSM to get them back
this is a signature not a place to post messages also if i could change my username i would change it to sell_her_on55

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by Wuzzy » Post

Don't worry. The chance this idea will somehow sneak its way back into core is basically zero at this point.
The thing I tried to do has come back in a different form, by using a "basic_debug" HUD flag instead. This works just fine and had no ugly side-effects or compability problems. But my initial privilege idea has been dumped for good because it sucked.

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Re: [REVERTED!] Debug coordinates will no longer be visible for unprivileged players after 5.4.0

by LMD » Post

Yes. This thread should be closed now.
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