Minetest 5.1.0

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sfan5
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Minetest 5.1.0

by sfan5 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 14:23

Minetest 5.1.0 has been released.

Highlights:

  • PvP improvements: Knockback support and Punchwear
  • GUIs are now easier to make, with consistent element positioning and sizing
  • GUI styling and theming
  • Loads of bug fixes, performance improvements, and more

Changelog: https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#5.0.1_.E2.86.92_5.1.0
Source code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/5.1.0

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Krock » Sat Oct 12, 2019 14:36

Obligatory first post. Yay.

Minetest: 302 new commits
Minetest Game: 82 new commits
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by ElryTommasso » Sat Oct 12, 2019 16:07

If i install it using terminal i will download this version? :D
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by KatzEyez » Sat Oct 12, 2019 16:45

Very nice! Always eager to see what's been updated. :)
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Walker » Sat Oct 12, 2019 21:21

can you update the package in the Debian Repository ?
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Wuzzy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 08:59

No. No new translations. At least for the engine. The devs have forgotten to update Weblate (Weblate is stuck on 5.0.0) … :O

po/de/minetest.po in repo: 96%
German in Weblate: 100%

Sigh. Now I have to live 6 months with incomplete translations. How did you manage to screw up translations once again? As a translator, I feel betrayed!

When will version 5.1.1 be released to fix this?

But at least Minetest Game has been translated. That's a plus.
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Helperrr » Sun Oct 13, 2019 09:18

when will the android version be?
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Wuzzy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 09:41

By the way:

@Linuxdirk: Bwhahahahahahaha! Looks like your prediction was dead wrong this time. :P :D
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Linuxdirk » Sun Oct 13, 2019 09:50

Wuzzy wrote:@Linuxdirk: Bwhahahahahahaha! Looks like your prediction was dead wrong this time. :P :D

Wow, I am utterly surprised! That was a damn fast release!
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Walker » Sun Oct 13, 2019 16:39

Linuxdirk wrote:
Wuzzy wrote:@Linuxdirk: Bwhahahahahahaha! Looks like your prediction was dead wrong this time. :P :D

Wow, I am utterly surprised! That was a damn fast release!
xDD

// edit:

btw. with so much "incompleteness", should I rather wait with the update of my server?
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by sfan5 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 17:12

Don't let a minor issue with engine translations (which by the way is not something we just "forgot") prevent you from updating.
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Wuzzy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 18:09

Based on chat, it seems the core devs were just unlucky. I have learned that Weblate is currently only controlled by est31. Nobody else has admin access. And for this release, the other core devs were unable to contact est31, which seemed to be a requirement to update the source strings. And as a result: No update. And the core devs didn't want to delay the release any further. Which is understandable. This doesn't really fix the problem, of course, but at least it's an explanation. There was even a lengthy debate on #minetest-dev on this which I just have completely missed. :-(

This release includes about 47 new or changed strings, compared to 5.0.0. Most of them setting-related.

I hereby revert my previous rant:

$ git revert furious_rant

For the future, I strongly suggest to make sure the process of updating source strings does not depend on a single person who can, if absent, prevent the updating of source strings. It's not good that translations can be blocked by a single person.

Now that this has been cleared out, I can start to review the rest. Maybe tomorrow.
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Walker » Sun Oct 13, 2019 19:18

sfan5 wrote:Don't let a minor issue with engine translations (which by the way is not something we just "forgot") prevent you from updating.
ok, than i hope the packages in the debian-repo will be updated quickly ^^
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by redblade7 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 22:11

Someone suggested to me that v5.1.0 might have brought client-side speed improvements and, at least on Windows, that seems to be true, though as I have a fast computer it could just be my imagination. Is it?
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Festus1965 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 22:58

client doesn't start on my server, as before, failure: sound ... (there are not sound boxes attached),
5.0.1 client was running
5.1.0 server is running now

Client 5.1.0 on linux/ubuntu and win64/via wine running now AFTER plug in a loudspeaker, even OFF, but settings ON for sound
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by cHyper-0815OL » Mon Oct 14, 2019 02:59

still playing linux minetest 5.2.0 dev version (ubuntu snap) ... Image
Attachments
Bildschirmfoto von 2019-10-14 04-55-21.png
(67.18 KiB) Not downloaded yet
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Andrey01 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 14:01

Please update official builds for Linux systems and Android. Thanks for the update!
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Termos » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:29

Fix broken attachments on join

Had high hopes about this, but both client and server still keep loosing track of objects attached to objects that are attached themselves.
 

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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by homthack » Sun Oct 20, 2019 17:50

I do not have the release in new version on my computer, but as soon as I update my server and I have to say that I will soon be ready for the update that I can use this time on my hm server and game that I have to download.
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Re: Minetest 5.1.0

by Walker » Mon Oct 28, 2019 04:13

after the update to 5.1.0 ( from 5.0.1 ) my server freeze randomly(?) with no response to terminal or clients

> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23551
 

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Review of 5.1.0

by Wuzzy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 13:46

A couple of weeks late, but here's finally the promised review of this version:

Consistent formspecs coordinates:

Thanks! This is a much awaited and needed update. I also noticed the introduction of formspec_version, but the docs don't specify which versions currently exist or what exactly the relevant differences are.

Excited, I immediately tried to switch one of my mods to the new coordinate system only to notice that it's actually not trivial at all. According to the docs, I have to change ALL the coordinates by hand. So simply slapping a formspec_version[2] will break everything. The docs even say I have to do everything from scratch. OMG! At least the docs write down the exact formulas to convert but, oh boy, ooff, this is a ton of work! That's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm afraid you are going to have to support version 1 till the end of time. :P
But given that I have all the numbers available, I could write a script to autogenerate version 2 formspecs from version 1 formspecs. :)
Also, the inventory slot coordinates seem to have gone completely, although those was what (I believe) the majority of all formspec elements were using. I actually found this system quite useful because I did not have to bother about paddings and such.
In version 2 this is all taken away from me and I have to handle it manually … I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing as I haven't tried it out yet. The amount of work to convert old formspecs is too boring.
I will try out the new system when I need to create a brand-new formspec.

GUI theming:
Well, to be honest, I find this feature to be not of much use for now. The only thing that can be colorized are normal text buttons. Everything else, that is, image buttons, scrollbars, text fields, etc. can not be colorized yet. There are other styling features available, but they are all very esoteric like clipping. It's not bad to have, but to be honest, I never needed noclip for any of my formspec in my countless mods. Definitely very esoteric feature. Anyway, with only one formspec colorizable, I will likely not use formspec theming in my mods and games. It looks weird if text buttons are colorized, but image buttons aren't.

9-sliced backgrounds
This is undoubtedly very useful, but not tested yet. I definitely must try out this feature and use it in my games. I just keep forgettng about it …

Carpathian rivers
Cool that carpathian includes rivers, too. But they are actually river channels like in v7. Very similar. The flag should have been called “ridges” for consistency. But oh well, I'm afraid it's too late now.

/help opens formspec
The new behaviour of /help is that a window pops up when you use it. It certainly looks nice and bling-bling, but I still think it's conceptually flawed. The only way to open the help is by typing, but you are forced to use the mouse to use the formspec. The arrow keys don't work after opening the formspec. That's slightly inconvenient. I noticed that when you doubleclick a command, it appears in chat. Okay … but why? What's the use of this? Especially since the chat only displays the command name and syntax, but not the help text, which is weirdly inconsistent.

I mean, the formspec is not bad, but being unable to use the keyboard is dumb since the only way to open this thing is by typing. Maybe this is a bug.

Item entities
Item entities are now being forced out of solid nodes. I did the basework for this, but sfan5 changed it. Still, I am quite happy with how the end result turned out.

Mixed comments
Rename "private messages" to "direct messages" (Calinou)

This is definitely a reasonable change, as these messages are not really private. Today I have updated the wiki pages as well to reflect that.

Automatically enable depending mods in the dialogue

That's very helpful.

But overall, I still think the dependency management usability still needs improvement. For example, the GUI doesn't warn you when a mod is missing hard dependencies. Or that mods in the dependency lists are not colored and cannot be double-clicked to enable.

All settings: Fix missing flags checkboxes

Ahh, this is definitely much better now. The old weird system with 2 checkboxes for both the “on” and “off” state for each flag was really confusing. Now it's only one checkbox for each flag, exactly how it should be.

Group "immortal" also protects players from damage (Wuzzy)

Woohoo! This means we can have per-player god mode! Wow, I totally forgot I even added this. I'm glad it made it in. XD

Move debug.txt after it grows too big (HybridDog)

Ooff, finally debug.txt no longer grows to insane sizes. Important change. Previously, debug.txt was unlimited size and just grows and grows and grows.

Trigger on_place in many situations even if prediction failed (DS-Minetest)

No idea how this works.

Mark tool filtering in node drop documentation as deprecated (Paramat)

Thank you. The tool filtering is just very weird how it's implemented now. Hopefully one day this strange feature gets superceded by a group-based implementation.

Add disable_jump to liquids and ladders (SmallJoker)

Tested, works fine. Will be useful for quicksand.

The ladder/climbable node is definitely more esoteric, but maybe could be fun for puzzle games as some sort of one-way ladder.
What is funny: You can only prevent going up with this. There's no group to prevent going down. This basically screams for a new group “disable_sink”. :)

Velocity modifiers for players (sfan5)

Yeeeeesssssssss!!! Finally, we have knockback! This is definitely a big one. I have not used this myself yet, but it is already used in the game “The End” by DrFrankenstone. And it totally works very smooth, how it should be. The applications for this are endless.

Punchwear

I have no idea how it works, to be honest. How is it calculated? Can I, as a modder, control/tweak punchwear in any way? Haven't found anything in lua_api.txt yet.

Minetest Game:

The translation in Minetest Game works beautifully. But only because I watched you closely do it. xD Anyway, thanks.
Most other features are not really noteworthy, and pretty much no gameplay changes. One thing that I do like is the floating water sound. I will probably “steal” the code one day. :) Maybe this could be the begin of a fully features and non-laggy (!) environmental sound API, who knows? What is bad are the new desert undergrounds. Desert stone now extend about to Y=-255, which is a lot. This means: Absolutely nothing but desert stone. No coal, no iron, no copper, etc.. And at Y=-256 or lower, BOOM! Now the desert stone turns into stone and you suddenly get coal, copper, tin, iron, gold. Gold!! So the ore density jumps from 0 ores to 5 ores by going 1 layer deeper. Well, that's not balanced …

Feature-wise, the MTG update is tiny. Not much has changed. MTG as a whole is still pretty boring. MTG is still a big empty world that is really boring in singleplayer. However, I recognize that MTG is very useful for modded servers. It should be advertised as that instead. Advertise MTG to server operators, not to players.
Mining in deserts got more boring because biome stone goes much deeper now, and there are no ores in desert stone.

MTG is still distributed as the default game, despite its obvious shortcomings. There was a discussion to add Repixture to the mix, but I basically prevented it. Maybe this was a mistake. Repixture is very stable now, maybe I was too paranoid. I argued before that MT should not ship with any default game because we now have so many different ideas. But then the question was how to teach players how to obtain games, I did not answer this question. But being more “neutral” would be the long-term solution. However, maybe it was a mistake to reject inclusion of Repixture because that clearly would have been at least a short-term solution. Oh well. But the main reason I rejected this because Repixture would have been forced under the same release period as Minetest itself and simply bypassing the whole Content DB …uote]

Minetest Translations
It's a bummer the Weblate was not updated in time for translators to react, but I understand the reasons now. I see you have in the meantime updated Weblate and given more core devs to Weblate. I hope this means that for the next release, the translation work will be done more smoothly. This shows how important it is to give core devs access to all the important platforms.

Closing remarks
Overall, the update's an improvement. I'm very glad you have adopted a regular release schedule now. The updates are looking smaller now, but the big benefit is that players can give feedback much faster.

There are still a couple of rough edges in Minetest here and there, but I'm sure it will be sorted out eventually. The formspec updates sounded more promising on paper than they really are in reality (sorry), especially updating old formspecs to version 2 is going to be very painful boring work. Formspec theming just looks incomplete to know and I'm sure it will be completed in future updates.
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Re: Review of 5.1.0

by rubenwardy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 14:49

Wuzzy wrote:Well, to be honest, I find this feature to be not of much use for now. The only thing that can be colorized are normal text buttons. Everything else, that is, image buttons, scrollbars, text fields, etc. can not be colorized yet


Yes, this feature is WIP because Irrlicht makes it very hard to be able to customise anything. This feature adds a unified way to style elements but I doubt we'll get a fully stylable GUI system using formspecs as irrlicht GUI elements just aren't designed for that
 

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Re: Review of 5.1.0

by Linuxdirk » Mon Oct 28, 2019 15:09

Wuzzy wrote:According to the docs, I have to change ALL the coordinates by hand. So simply slapping a formspec_version[2] will break everything. The docs even say I have to do everything from scratch.

Yes. The coordinates are now different, but not necessarily better/cleaner if you have complex formspecs. I recently converted all mTimer formspecs to version 2 coordinates and it was just replacing one mess with another mess.

Wuzzy wrote:I'm afraid you are going to have to support version 1 till the end of time. :P

Of course this will be the case. Maybe in 5-10 versions there could be discussions in defaulting to version 2 but most devs would vote against it because "MuH baCkwARDS COmPatiBiLitY". But actually I don't care. I simply set version 2 from now on for all my formspecs in all my mods and don't care about version 1 anymore except for sfinv tabs and Unified Inventory pages. (For my Pixelart mod I wrote aformspec builder that can output the same formspec base with different coordinates based on input, ignore the 9m typo *g*.) I hope one day those allow version 2, too.

Wuzzy wrote:The only thing that can be colorized are normal text buttons. Everything else, that is, image buttons, scrollbars, text fields, etc. can not be colorized yet. There are other styling features available, but they are all very esoteric like clipping.

Yeah :( Still no scrollable inventories or button lists. Only super weird scrollbars no-one understands.

Wuzzy wrote:Anyway, with only one formspec colorizable, I will likely not use formspec theming in my mods and games. It looks weird if text buttons are colorized, but image buttons aren't.

Yep. maybe I color my cancel or reset buttons red or something. But I don't see any real use cases for that.

Wuzzy wrote:Item entities are now being forced out of solid nodes.

I stick with builtin_item with that, because it adds a lot of different useful things to items.

Wuzzy wrote:
Move debug.txt after it grows too big (HybridDog)

Ooff, finally debug.txt no longer grows to insane sizes. Important change. Previously, debug.txt was unlimited size and just grows and grows and grows.

I wonder if this can be turned off so logrotate configuredd by the server owner can operate normally. I also wish it would be possible to define a custom log back-end so being aple to directly push log lines to systemd for example.

Wuzzy wrote:MTG is still distributed as the default game, despite its obvious shortcomings. There was a discussion to add Repixture to the mix, but I basically prevented it. Maybe this was a mistake. Repixture is very stable now, maybe I was too paranoid.

Repixture is a good choice. It a has a name that is googleable and does not contain any of the "bad words" (test, mine, block, node, mese, craft, etc.). Also it is feature-rich and looks pretty complete, even if it is only made for 5.0.0 according to the forum post. It should definitely be shipped with the engine as default game alongside MTG (which should be prominently marked as modding base).

Wuzzy wrote:[Translations show] how important it is to give core devs access to all the important platforms.

Not only all the platforms but also all the devs. If I understand correctly the missing translations are caused by only one of the devs having access to Weblate and this dev was not available.

Wuzzy wrote:The updates are looking smaller now, but the big benefit is that players can give feedback much faster.

Update early, update often. The less changes are done on updates the higher is the chance that nothing breaks on updates.
Last edited by Linuxdirk on Mon Oct 28, 2019 16:45, edited 1 time in total.
 

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