Administration abuse

KLK
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Administration abuse

by KLK » Fri Aug 29, 2014 14:01

One day i was playing minetest with one of my friends. In the chat my friend called someone crybaby. At reading this, one of the admin killed my friend, destroy his house, and killed me, i was shocked, i asked him why he had to kill me too, his response was " you was in my way" minutes later he ban my friend account and mines too.
 

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Krock
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Re: Administration abuse

by Krock » Fri Aug 29, 2014 14:19

Switch servers and don't self-quote.
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Re: Administration abuse

by kaeza » Fri Aug 29, 2014 19:43

Your signature is not the place for a blog post. Please keep it as concise as possible. Thank you!

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Re: Administration abuse

by Tedypig » Fri Aug 29, 2014 19:46

Switch servers. Admins/Owners can do as they please. If you don't like how a server is run, no one is forcing you to stay. In my opinion, this is wrong, It should have gone through steps, like warn/kill/ban or something, but it's their server.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by KLK » Fri Aug 29, 2014 22:32

The name of the serve is xanadu.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Jordach » Fri Aug 29, 2014 23:01

KLK wrote:The name of the serve is xanadu.

Go elsewhere, such as "Onez' Minetest Server" (You may overhear me in the IRC channel)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19056 Solar Plains Dev Server
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by philipbenr » Fri Aug 29, 2014 23:03

Really? I thought that one was much nicer... Then again, it isn't hosted by TenPlus1...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8494

^^ This is the forum thread ^^ I think that would be the most appropriate place to complain.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Jordach » Fri Aug 29, 2014 23:04

philipbenr wrote:Really? I thought that one was much nicer... Then again, it isn't hosted by TenPlus1...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8494

^^ This is the forum thread ^^ I think that would be the most appropriate place to complain.

I've been pinged enough on IRC to deal with him - including a complete ban from the serverlist.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19056 Solar Plains Dev Server
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Minetestforfun » Fri Aug 29, 2014 23:33

Tedypig wrote:Switch servers. Admins/Owners can do as they please. If you don't like how a server is run, no one is forcing you to stay. In my opinion, this is wrong, It should have gone through steps, like warn/kill/ban or something, but it's their server.


Yes of course, i agree.

BUT, if admins exaggerate of they powers and punish players without any reasons, i think it's very bad for the minetest community ! And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Inocudom » Sat Aug 30, 2014 00:21

Jordach wrote:
philipbenr wrote:Really? I thought that one was much nicer... Then again, it isn't hosted by TenPlus1...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8494

^^ This is the forum thread ^^ I think that would be the most appropriate place to complain.

I've been pinged enough on IRC to deal with him - including a complete ban from the serverlist.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

It's funny, you know, that the individual never posts in these forums.
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Re: Administration abuse

by onpon4 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 01:15

Minetestforfun wrote:And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)

That's not possible. Anyone can run a public server. All that the Minetest devs could do is set a policy about how you're allowed to run servers listed on the server list, but that would require presenting this policy any time you start the server and wouldn't be easy to enforce.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Calinou » Sat Aug 30, 2014 09:15

onpon4 wrote:
Minetestforfun wrote:And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)

That's not possible. Anyone can run a public server. All that the Minetest devs could do is set a policy about how you're allowed to run servers listed on the server list, but that would require presenting this policy any time you start the server and wouldn't be easy to enforce.


I'll prove you wrong: most Cube 2 games (like Sauerbraten, Tesseract or Red Eclipse) include an auth system which allows players to claim master or admin on any server (public-private key authentication), as long as it appears in the public server list.

The server can remove the code that allows such a thing, but then it'll be banned from the server list. The servers on the list also have to obey many guidelines (no gameplay-modyfing mods and such, or a whole guidelines.txt file).

You may think this is an evil backdoor, but it's widely accepted in the Cube 2 community. If such a thing ever gets added to Minetest, it should be opt-in.

Try to stay away from the most populated servers from now, they're full of mobile clients and immature players. ;)
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Minetestforfun » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:25

I didn't know games based on cube 2 had this system in place. In my opinion, it's a good example to follow
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Casimir » Sat Aug 30, 2014 14:21

Minetestforfun wrote:BUT, if admins exaggerate of they powers and punish players without any reasons, i think it's very bad for the minetest community ! And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)

Read your sentence again and thing about it. There are admins on a server equipped with special powers to prevent normal players to behave wrong. Now when those admins abuse their status you want an über-admin that has even more powers to abuse and you hope that those will prevent normal admins to behave wrong.
If I ever find the motivation to set up a public server it will be without any admins or moderators.
And I think it is worth the effort to write some mods that remove the need for them.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by KLK » Sat Aug 30, 2014 14:28

Thanks everybody for your comments. i think this is wrong what that guy is doing. I'm not that much concerned about what happened to me, but others players. I think there should be people behind the scene who watch how the admins are doing their things. My information is not concrete, but i heard this guy who banned me, also had ban 16 people in the last five days. This got me very concerned, what do you guys think?
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by stormchaser3000 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 14:46

well if the guy is banning without reason there then notify the server owner and tell him that an admin is out of control and what the abusive admin has done that you know of.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Jordach » Sat Aug 30, 2014 16:51

Casimir wrote:
Minetestforfun wrote:BUT, if admins exaggerate of they powers and punish players without any reasons, i think it's very bad for the minetest community ! And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)

Read your sentence again and thing about it. There are admins on a server equipped with special powers to prevent normal players to behave wrong. Now when those admins abuse their status you want an über-admin that has even more powers to abuse and you hope that those will prevent normal admins to behave wrong.
If I ever find the motivation to set up a public server it will be without any admins or moderators.
And I think it is worth the effort to write some mods that remove the need for them.

Voteban, votemute, voteprivs, votekick....
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19056 Solar Plains Dev Server
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Calinou » Sat Aug 30, 2014 17:07

Jordach wrote:
Casimir wrote:
Minetestforfun wrote:BUT, if admins exaggerate of they powers and punish players without any reasons, i think it's very bad for the minetest community ! And i think, a higher authority should be there to protect the players from this kind of situation... (specifically on public servers)

Read your sentence again and thing about it. There are admins on a server equipped with special powers to prevent normal players to behave wrong. Now when those admins abuse their status you want an über-admin that has even more powers to abuse and you hope that those will prevent normal admins to behave wrong.
If I ever find the motivation to set up a public server it will be without any admins or moderators.
And I think it is worth the effort to write some mods that remove the need for them.

Voteban, votemute, voteprivs, votekick....


Voting is a potential solution, but people could bring clones in order to vote. You may have to allow only 1 vote per IP to impede that.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Evergreen » Sat Aug 30, 2014 18:12

Calinou wrote:
Jordach wrote:Voteban, votemute, voteprivs, votekick....


Voting is a potential solution, but people could bring clones in order to vote. You may have to allow only 1 vote per IP to impede that.

Maybe you could combine mods to automate moderating and voting together. eg. if a "moderator mod" detects that a player is griefing, it would go up for vote.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Casimir » Sat Aug 30, 2014 19:14

Jordach wrote:Voteban, votemute, voteprivs, votekick....

Or more general.
Code: Select all
/vote "/time 6000"
Casimir wants to execute "/time 6000". Current result of voting is 1/14. White either "/vote accept" or "/vote deny" to vote.


Calinou wrote:but people could bring clones in order to vote.

You could have some kind of consensus. With 1. some proportion of all player have to accept 2. no one disagrees (except the one getting banned).
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by TenPlus1 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 19:55

KLK wrote:One day i was playing minetest with one of my friends. In the chat my friend called someone crybaby. At reading this, one of the admin killed my friend, destroy his house, and killed me, i was shocked, i asked him why he had to kill me too, his response was " you was in my way" minutes later he ban my friend account and mines too.


KLK, you forgot to mention that your friends were swearing in server and harassing the girl so a decision was made that players like that should not be on the server since children play there also... Part of the ban is that their builds are removed so other players can use that area...
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by KLK » Sat Aug 30, 2014 20:02

Tenplus you forgot that i also was banned and i didn't have anything to do with it. Also my friend wasn't swearing and the guy who banned us titanius harass more Tiko than he did to the girl.
 

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Re: Administration abuse

by Sokomine » Sat Aug 30, 2014 20:35

Removing admins alltogether, voting, consensus, technical solutions - all that may be part of it but isn't the definite, finite solution to all problems in the world. Some of these things may create even more problems on Minetest servers.

Regarding this particular server and incident, it might not even have been malice or anything like that. Even on a normal server, with good tools available to the moderators/admins (especially rollback_check and logs), there is room for error. Xanandu does not offer these tools. Thus, a moderator/admin confronted with 20 or more kindergarden-children killing each other at spawn, jumping about with nothing but tiny names above them, some random lag thrown in, never having consulted with other admins, may get confused easily and make errors. Besides, maintaining a server - either as mod or admin - is a learning process. There are servers out there with more experienced admins. Though those did (and do), in their time, learn as well. Perhaps you ought to talk to TenPlus1, who's a moderator at the Xanandu server, and who may forward your problem and thus help the mod/admin in question learn a bit more.

Please take a look at more than one server and select one you're comftable with. Servers and the rules and priorities their admins employ may differ a lot. If you're looking for a server that is very stable and friendly to builders, take a look at linuxgaming.us, one of VanessaEs servers, the KingArthur server or Redcrabs server. They have been around a while, care about protecting buildings, usually have more than one moderator and have moderators who share their experience with others. Which in turn implies that players are expected to at least try to behave well on these servers.
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Re: Administration abuse

by KLK » Sat Aug 30, 2014 20:52

I'm totally agree with you Sokomine. Is ok for admin sometimes to ban people because they are inexperience, but the problem is why he had to involve other people and start harassing the players, they should be the example.
 

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