Rename minetest_game

[Linuxdirk]

[…] but if people download Minetest and dont find a "Minetest" game inside they will be confused...maybe even pissed. […] You download Minecraft to play Minecraft and you download Minetest to play Minetest.

^ This exactly.

Did you check the GitHub discussion? There are some suggestions made that have absolutely nothing to do with Minetest … THIS is confusing stuff.

I like keeping it simple. Like I described above in my opinion anything more than “Minetest Engine” and “Minetest Game” (and the combination of both simply named “Minetest”) would cause more confusion as there already is.

[rubenwardy]

I agree with Minetest XYZ.

It's "subgame" anyway, and the world creater should reflect this. You could see it as game modes. You play Minecraft for creative and survival. I don't like Minetest vanilla as it implies that it is unmodded, which isn't necessarily true. Minetest Game is satisfactory, but I think there should be 3 or more bundled by default called Minetest XYZ, with the XYZ explaining what the subgame aims to do easily, with none implying they're the default game.

Like Minetest Builder, Minetest Survival, Minetest Engineer. You'd need descriptions too.
Builder isn't creative, but won't have hardcore hunger and mobs like survival would have.

[Don]

It is easy for newbies to conflate both minetest_game and Minetest (the engine), partly because of the same/similar name.

The main problem is, that even by more experienced users and in the documentation, the terms “Minetest” and “minetest_game” are used synonymous.

If it would be 100 percent clear in usage of the terms and in the documentation that “Minetest” refers to the engine and explicitly excluding the game itself and “minetest_game” only refers to the game itself and explicitly excluding the engine it would be all fine :)

Maybe rename “Minetest” to “Minetest Engine” and “minetest_game” to “Minetest Game” and use “Minetest” for the combination of “Minetest Engine” and “Minetest Game” for having better names.

Other games for “Minetest Engine” could be called “Minetest XYZ” without breaking naming conventions.

I believe LinuxDirk has it right. You just need clarity in the usage of the terms.
The way he explains it is pretty much how I already understood it to be (at least I thought so)

This whole topic is based on how Wuzzy thinks new comers might be confused,
but if people download Minetest and dont find a "Minetest" game inside they will be confused...maybe even pissed.

Who downloads minecraft to play the "diggingdanistheman-demo_game" nobody
You download Minecraft to play Minecraft and you download Minetest to play Minetest.
its pretty simple.

And calling it vanilla or basic or whatever just undermines the game

I think some things should just be left alone.
Of course this is just my opinion

+1

[Wuzzy]

but if people download Minetest and dont find a "Minetest" game inside they will be confused...maybe even pissed.

Who downloads minecraft to play the "diggingdanistheman-demo_game" nobody

And calling it vanilla or basic or whatever just undermines the game

minetest_game is not a game, because it lacks basic goals or even challenges. You just do what you want to, not even death has a real consequence. You can't win or lose in minetest_game. These are all the stereotypical properties of a sandbox. Therefore, minetest_game is a sandbox.

Also, I hate it to write “minetest_game” or “Minetest (the subgame)” and “Minetest (the engine)” every time in discussions instead of a proper name. It gets annoying.

I also do not understand what you meant by “claritiy in the usage of terms”. A clarity would be an unambigious naming. But if you defend ambigious names (the same name for both the engine and the default subgame), then how exactly does this helps here? o_O

And minetest_game is really just a diggingdanistheman-demo_game. ;-) It feels very much like a demo, really, because there is not much stuff you can do in it. But this is a completely different topic, by the way.
(I am not suggesting this crazy name, of course!).

[…] but if people download Minetest and dont find a "Minetest" game inside they will be confused...maybe even pissed. […] You download Minecraft to play Minecraft and you download Minetest to play Minetest.

This can all be fixed by modifying the main menu in such a way that it is more newbie-friendly, i.e. a pointer to the default game (or a brief explanation), handling a tutorial (hint-hint ;-)), and much more. Currently, the main menu is pretty ugly, also it is not helpful to newbies at all, they do not understand at this point the concept of subgames, mobs, and all the other stuff.

but I think there should be 3 or more bundled by default called Minetest XYZ, with the XYZ explaining what the subgame aims to do easily, with none implying they're the default game.

Like Minetest Builder, Minetest Survival, Minetest Engineer. You'd need descriptions too.
Builder isn't creative, but won't have hardcore hunger and mobs like survival would have.

I don't like this idea very much. It would cause a huge amount of redundancy and thus a large potential for inconsistency. It would be hell to maintain all these subgames.
Because you are basically forking the entire subgame over and over again with only a few modifications, the base would, however, stay the same. I think you can use the same codebase to implement multiple “modes”.

This could be solved by allowing some subgame (or mod??) configuration in the main menu, in world creation or whatever, where you can set subgame-specific variables (such as “Activate enemies”, “infinite items”, etc.). How exactly this could work isn't clear yet, but I think it is pretty clear possible to improve the main menu for some kind of mod- or subgame-specific configs.

Of course, a fork is justified as soon as you are going to make big changes to gameplay or important mods.






Anyways. Personally, I have no strong opinion towards any particular name, I just think the name should be changed.

[rubenwardy]

They would be completely different games with many changes and different blocks etc. I just gave some examples of the sort of names that would be good, names that explain what is special about that subgame.

[Napiophelios]

minetest_game is not a game

Then thats where the focus should be; making it into a better game.
But I am pretty sure that's where the devs are headed anyway so the point is mute.

I also do not understand what you meant by “claritiy in the usage of terms”.

This is refering to how the terms are used in "official" documentation.
When the official documentation implements how the terms are properly used;
the players/users/modders/developers will follow suit by making the same distinction in their own discussions.

This is a basic premise of language/communication. If I want you to understand what I am talking about I will use terminology that is accurate in description and correct in usage...despite my personal feeling on what the actual words are.

A clarity would be an unambigious naming.
But if you defend ambigious names (the same name for both the engine and the default subgame), then how exactly does this helps here? o_O

The naming convention LinuxDirk proposes may be similar but hardly ambiguous...its quite the opposite. The names are very specific.
The Minetest_game is only going to be confused with the Minetest engine when the people discussing it fail to make the distinction
because they are so annoyed by the extra letters they have to type to achieve said distinction.

Which is weird,because the only people that need such a seperation in terms will be the people developing the game or creating mods;
Said people are generally programmers and programmers know the importance of exacting usage of terminology and punctuation

I hate it to write “minetest_game” or “Minetest (the subgame)” and “Minetest (the engine)” every time in discussions instead of a proper name. It gets annoying.

Krock has taken to using MTG when refering to the Minetest_game;
I think that can be extended to MTE when refering to the Minetest engine,
at least in so far as general discussion goes.

[ExeterDad]

Let's just rename Minetest (the engine) to minetest_engine and be done with all this debate.

[Minetestforfun]

+1 for Vanilla Minetest / Minetest Vanilla

Because, i think everybody understand the word "Vanilla" :)

[Magz_builder]

Just some feedback from a newbie who just downloaded the game and is still confused what is what:

I understand there are mods. The game comes default with one mod. I think that should be called the "Minetest Default Mod", or "Minetest Classic Mod".
If there is some underlying engine which runs the game, then please call it the Minetest Engine.

If there is more stuff in addition to that, then someone should explain that. Preferably using pictures. Diagrams can explain things that pages of words cannot.

[Topywo]

@Magz_builder

I'll try to explain it keeping it readable for you without making too much 'technical' mistakes. There is far more, but one needs to start somewhere. Use your folders as a 'picture'


Following the minetest build instructions, you build 'minetest' consisting out of the 'minetest-engine' and 2 games that are placed in one of the engine's folders called minetest/games:
- minetest_game
- minimal

You can download other games and put them in the minetest/games folder or use a build that adds some games extra in that folder.


minetest_game has several mods, but only one of them is called default. The same is possible for other games.

Mods and modpacks you like to use 'extra' are best placed in the folder minetest/mods


If I am correct the question is if and how to rename the 'standard installed' game called minetest_game. (Most users will use this one, playing minetest for the first time)

[firefox]

i am relatively new to minetest (i started in december) so i will add my thoughts as a beginner to this discussion:

"minimal" is good to understand, as it contains no extras at all.
"minetest_game" sounds like it is the complete game. i only knew about mods and the other stuff, because i know that principle from "Battle for Wesnoth" and i did a precise research about minetest before i started.
but if i didn't knew that, i would expect "minetest_game" to be everything the game has.

but since it has only the basic stuff and 2 biomes and 1 type of tree, it is rather a basis than a full game.
so until minetest becomes a "completed" game (version 1.0 or whatever it will be called) i would suggest the name
"Minetest-Base" or "Basic Minetest".
this implies that it is the basic game that can be expanded by adding mods and/or installing different map generators.

the term "vanilla" is obvious if you know about everything, but it is a kind of slang language that is new to me and thus probably confusing to newbies. the concept of "basic" should be clear to everyone.

[Wuzzy]

It is done.

Okay, the developers of this subgame decided to rename it to “Minetest Game”.
Review the old discussion on GitHub here:
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/437


However, none of the files of this subgame have been actually changed yet, most notably its text logo. But I think this will soon be changed:
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/480

[MeowCat]

It was not already minetest_game called ???
Why not "default modpack"?