0.5.0

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Linuxdirk
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Re: 0.5.0

by Linuxdirk » Post

Gaming Association wrote:What would everyone like to see in 0.5.0?
Better lighting and absolutely no 2D objects (this ain't 1995).

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Re: 0.5.0

by Dragonop » Post

I think that some 2d objects add some "charisma" to the game, or at least a personality.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Don » Post

I think it's good for default to have all 3d but the engine should support both.
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Re: 0.5.0

by gravelman » Post

Better PvP.
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Re: 0.5.0

by Ferk » Post

gravelman wrote:Better PvP.
Can you be more specific? What do you think would be a good way to improve combat?
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Re: 0.5.0

by TenPlus1 » Post

*boom* *pow* right in the kisser.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Calinou » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:Better lighting and absolutely no 2D objects (this ain't 1995).
Is there any fully client-side 3D animated torch mod with particles?

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Re: 0.5.0

by jp » Post

Particle spawners are entirely server-side.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Ferk » Post

jp wrote:Particle spawners are entirely server-side.
I wonder if there'd be a way to create an animated 3D mesh that somehow imitates a smoke effect that looks believable. Then that could be added to the torches and the smoke would be client side.

But yeah, it would be a hack and not a solution. A proper particle client-side api would be awesome, specially since we have a client-side option to enable/disable particles anyway, it doesn't make much sense for the server to do this.
Maybe such a system could make it viable to have foam in the water, proper smoke and maybe snow/rain.

The same applies to the calculations for ambiental sound effects.
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Re: 0.5.0

by jp » Post

Ferk wrote: I wonder if there'd be a way to create an animated 3D mesh that somehow imitates a smoke effect that looks believable.
An "animated 3D mesh" is called an entity in Minetest :)

But yes, we could fake the particle effect by adding a mesh plane atop the torch model and set an animated texture which let appear a chronical spark on that plane. It would be truly client-side.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Ferk » Post

jp wrote:An "animated 3D mesh" is called an entity is Minetest :)
Yes, I know entities (and also nodes) can be meshes.
What I was wondering is if the effect would be doable in blender in a way that doesn't look too obvious. My modelling skills leave much to be desired, I wouldn't be able to know whether it's even possible to make it look good as an animation, or if it would need to be in software to be decent.

It wouldn't have to be a truely 3D-looking model, just an animation of 2D planes that move around and have a texture that can use transparency so we could add different particles by changing the skin
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Re: 0.5.0

by jp » Post

The effect is doable in Blender but not usable in Minetest as a meshnode (an entity is necessary but it's not a good deal for decoration and other placeable stuff, entities are primarily ment for mobs).

But as I said, you can add a plane in the torch model (remaining a static model) and set an animated texture on it (over the Lua code) for the spark.

Image

In black, the torch model.
In red, the 2D plane.

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Re: 0.5.0

by gravelman » Post

Ferk wrote:
gravelman wrote:Better PvP.
Can you be more specific? What do you think would be a good way to improve combat?
I mean mainly knockback. That will make PvP more realistic and funny.
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Re: 0.5.0

by TenPlus1 » Post

+1 on controlling Player acceleration.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Calinou » Post

Stun is easier to code than knockback. Stun would result in slower movement for a limited time after receiving damage. This would work especially well on mobs.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Ferk » Post

I wonder if doing player:setpos() to move it one "meter" backwards would be too jumpy
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Re: 0.5.0

by TenPlus1 » Post

Ferk: you would have to deal with server lag also.

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Re: 0.5.0

by blockybison » Post

Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I see it, client-side scripting should be a priority because of things like this. Couldn't the knockback effect be done by: (server side) accelerating the entity in the direction opposite to the blow, and (client side) predicting the final position of the entity that was hit and do the animation? I'm by no means an experienced modder but the "everything is done on server side" model seems very silly to me, not to mention that it makes the game feel overall very unresponsive.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Linuxdirk » Post

jp wrote:But as I said, you can add a plane in the torch model (remaining a static model) and set an animated texture on it (over the Lua code) for the spark.
If it prevents THIS from happening I’m fine with whatever it takes …

Image

To me this does not add any “charisma” or whatever you want to call it to the game. It only looks horribly outdated and last-century. Even Doom had better 2D objects.

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Re: 0.5.0

by kaadmy » Post

blockybison wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong
[...]
Couldn't the knockback effect be done by: (server side) accelerating the entity in the direction opposite to the blow
That wouldn't work, as players have no (Mod-changeable)velocity, and therefore cannot be pushed around. The current mobs_redo mod, however, does already do that.
blockybison wrote:the "everything is done on server side" model seems very silly to me, not to mention that it makes the game feel overall very unresponsive.
The server-side principal is a very good one and usually works well, but coupled with extreme lag/latency is disastrous.
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Re: 0.5.0

by rubenwardy » Post

kaadmy wrote:
blockybison wrote:the "everything is done on server side" model seems very silly to me, not to mention that it makes the game feel overall very unresponsive.
The server-side principal is a very good one and usually works well, but coupled with extreme lag/latency is disastrous.
That's why client-side prediction and server side reconciliation is used - Minetest just doesn't have that for mods yet.

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Re: 0.5.0

by blockybison » Post

kaadmy wrote: That wouldn't work, as players have no (Mod-changeable)velocity, and therefore cannot be pushed around. The current mobs_redo mod, however, does already do that.
That is unfortunate. If you are familiar with the engine's design, can you tell me why that is, and what would be the challenges to be faced in order to add this feature?
kaadmy wrote: The server-side principal is a very good one and usually works well, but coupled with extreme lag/latency is disastrous.
I think it's amusing that the project is really concerned about running smoothly on older machines, yet network issues are overlooked. I'd argue that nowadays the second is a bigger issue unless you play on geographically close servers and subscribe to a non-shit ISP (which are notoriously rare if the complaints you hear from people around the world are to be believed).
rubenwardy wrote: That's why client-side prediction and server side reconciliation is used - Minetest just doesn't have that for mods yet.
The ability to do that sounds like a pretty big thing to overlook when you are building an engine that's supposed to be as bare-bones as possible and let the modders do everything else! (edit: but I don't know exactly how challenging it would be to implement decent client-side scripting capabilities so I can't complain too much)

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Re: 0.5.0

by jp » Post

@Linuxdirk : it also grants a larger freedom to texture packs and overall tuning. 1/16 pixels are last century as well... If we were "2015-fad", Minetest would be not Minetest, but Rust. This is a simplistic abstract game anyways.

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Re: 0.5.0

by Ferk » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:If it prevents THIS from happening I’m fine with whatever it takes …
Actually I don't get why don't we have the "wielditem" visual available for nodes as well. The torches would probably look much better if they were displayed in the world the same way they are displayed when they are in the hands of the player. They would have some depth so they wouldn't disappear if you front-face them, and imho they would look pretty amazing already.

My guess is that perhaps there's no animation system implemented for wielditem visuals?
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Re: 0.5.0

by rubenwardy » Post

The system of extrusion adds lots of faces, which causes an fps reduction.

RealBadAngel did some work on this.

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