[Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

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[Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Thu Feb 11, 2016 00:40

Well this idea comes from the questions from some people, in really is good they ask, but sometimes no one answers his question, so i decided to do a Minetest Manual, You will say "Bro, for that exists the MT Wiki", Yes but this is a something more a like for that first time players, a guide step by step, node by node, and some things in the wiki are good for there some things that aren't yet, as servers tactics, and some or commands are hard for the very noob players, anyways i think this guide start by simple things and after that comes more hard stuff, so will be easier to learn many things!
And i will translate in many languages as i can every page i finish of write so will be easier to understand many people don't speak english because is hard for they! for others no, anyways will be easier to read if is in the native language.
It will have many things that don't exist yet in wiki as tactics or some very useful tricks, well thats the idea, i am doing it but what you think, say me, should i do this?
maybe no? is a bad idea? ¬¬ anyways this book will be free as in freedom and will be something with colaboration of everyone that wants to help!


(i amn't saying the MT Wiki is bad in really is the best source of information only somethings left yet, many articles aren't in many languages! and somethings are very hard to understand... to me and others!)
Last edited by MineYoshi on Thu Feb 18, 2016 22:08, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by lisacvuk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:56

It is a good idea. I can help in writing it, and I can translate it to Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian.
It's lisac, not lisa.
400 character limit? Am I writing a book?
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Sat Feb 13, 2016 22:37

prof-turbo what happens with tutorial game is that only is avaible in english
and i think some people hate using traductor always!
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by Wuzzy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 23:28

Since today, Tutorial is available in English, German, Dutch, and Greek (partial translation) and some other highly unfinished languages.
But the translation system is not fun to maintain since Minetest still has no sane translation support for mods. :-( But this doesn't prevent people from contributing. :-)

Sadly, the tutorial is still not shipped with Minetest by default, but I (and lots of other Minetesters) want it so. If the tutorial would be shipped by default, this would answer a lot of beginner-questions. Yes, I agree, it is pretty hard to get into Minetest, especially if you are completely new to the genre. For example, the crafting system is just a huge pile of WTF from an usability standpoint. xD Which is what motivated the tutorial. :-)

Also, what's wrong with the wiki? The “Getting started” guide is placed prominently, do you think it is not good enough? The wiki also covers basic concepts like crafting. Or do you have some particular topics in mind which are lacking?

Also, why do you keep talking of “traducing”? Are you a horrible person? o_O
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by garywhite » Wed Feb 17, 2016 06:42

I would be willing to help. I have been playing MT for about 6 months and would like to help.
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Thu Feb 18, 2016 22:43

Wuzzy:
Well...
I confused traduce with translate , i am human and i confused it because translate is "traducir" in my natal language (spanish dude :D) and is samely to traduce...
I sorry , the error is corrected. And I amn't a horribly person!. -_-

Things i think about what you say:
1st. Tutorial World and Subgame isn't in spanish and well, i think many people from latin (that speak spanish!) countries will like understand what says in the signs...
EDIT: And the other languages that aren't translated yet?
2nd. Some info in the Wiki is lacking because simply isn't so good and well only info and crafts and node info and code, don't make a profesional Minetest player, some player tactics are missing, or advices from who knows.
And well the wiki is good but if you have no internet, some minetest players have that stupid problem too, you can download the manual in a friend's house or maybe in the school or wherever there is internet and pass it to your pc (I know you can download the page, the HTML code and the images but some people don't know how do that!)...
3rd. I don't know... WAIT ummmm yes there is something, i think a manual to buy isn't bad...
maybe i think that minetest comunity and developers don't want to sell anything i know this is a comunity project, but i think ,maybe we can do that...
I know someone will say me that is bad this is open source everything should be free but i think have a Minetest Pc Sticker with something like Minetest Power or something like that wouldn't be bad...
Maybe cool, a poster or a phone cover who knows, maybe my idea will be reality sometime...
Maybe some people will feel like: -This dude wants to make us like MC from that Micro$oft company...
But well i think isn't bad after all i found There are many Minetest T-Shirts and Mugs...
Maybe add a manual isn't bad after all if there are Minetest T-Shirts and Mugs a manual will be useful, and in the possible the most money earned will go to Minetest as a donation...
Is a good idea...
Good Designs by the comunity, so you can buy your own Minetest Mug and Have your own Colection, yes, maybe...
Here are the products i saw http://www.cafepress.co.uk/dd/76069408 IMHO i think Minetest logo in a mug is cool but in baby clothes WTF, But the dog shirt and the teddy bear are good for me and the Hoodie is the more coolest...

Anyways a Minetest Manual will don't be bad...
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by srifqi » Fri Feb 19, 2016 14:36

MineYoshi wrote:Wuzzy:
Well...
...
Things i think about what you say:
1st. Tutorial World and Subgame isn't in spanish and well, i think many people from latin (that speak spanish!) countries will like understand what says in the signs...
EDIT: And the other languages that aren't translated yet?
...
Anyways a Minetest Manual will don't be bad...

For me, it's the opposite. I'm not sure that my attempt to translate Minetest to Indonesia is useful. Because, in Indonesia, Minetest is not popular. I've met other Indonesian player in-game on some servers, mostly Xanadu. But, I can't make sure that they know if Minetest is exist in Indonesian language, although it's still not complete. Also, they (who I met in-game) mostly not more than 16 years old.
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by Wuzzy » Fri Feb 19, 2016 21:49

MineYoshi wrote:I confused traduce with translate , i am human and i confused it because translate is "traducir" in my natal language (spanish dude :D) and is samely to traduce...
I sorry , the error is corrected. And I amn't a horribly person!. -_-

Haha, just kidding. Whatever, going on …

1st. Tutorial World and Subgame isn't in spanish and well, i think many people from latin (that speak spanish!) countries will like understand what says in the signs...
EDIT: And the other languages that aren't translated yet?

There is no Spanish translation because nobody made one. I don't speak Spanish, so obviously I can't do it. I will happily include any translation of the tutorial. :-)
The tutorial started with English and later German because these are langauges I know. Simple as that.

2nd. Some info in the Wiki is lacking because simply isn't so good and well only info and crafts and node info and code, don't make a profesional Minetest player, some player tactics are missing, or advices from who knows.

I don't think it is neccessary to add strategy guides. Also, of which subgame are you talking of? Probably not Minetest Game, there is not much of a strategy to play this thing because this is just a sandbox. Or what do you mean?
I thought you want a manual, not a strategy guide. You don't need to know all possible openings to be able to play Chess. Learning Chess is pretty easy, mastering it much harder. :P
But if someone feels the need to write a strategy guide, well, go ahead. xD

And well the wiki is good but if you have no internet, some minetest players have that stupid problem too, you can download the manual in a friend's house or maybe in the school or wherever there is internet and pass it to your pc (I know you can download the page, the HTML code and the images but some people don't know how do that!)...

The download argument is a good one. Sadly, it is much harder to actually download and store (!) webpages or even entire websites than it should be. The Web really sucks in this regard.
Personally, I am more a “proponent” if the idea of self-documentation. That is, putting all relevant documentation right in the game itself. No external resources are needed. Want to know what block XYZ does? Look in the in-game help! Want to know how much damage sword ABC does? Look again. Etc.
I think players would also be much more likely to use the in-game help than any external form of help. It is more convenient.
Ideally, a player could start Minetest, play through a tutorial or something and know everything he/she/it needs to know about Minetest (the engine, that it). And if he/she/it starts a subgame, subgame-specific information can be looked up in Minetest as well. It is already annoying to look up every single craft, but at least there are crafting guides.
Also, in more complex subgames or mods like Technic you don't even know what each node does. It is inconvenient to look it up in the wiki and a manual would not be much better in this regard.
And stuff like groups are almost completely invisible to the player right now, although these are very important.

The player should not have to leave Minetest to be able to play it, this is the idea. And Minetest is VERY far from this. Currently, Minetest does not even communicate the controls in a good way. Some of the interesting features (minimap, camera, cinematic mode) are not even mentioned in Minetest, you have to know from the wiki (or by accident) that they exist.
I have actually thought to make a mod about this, but it did not went far so far. :/
Another bonus of this is it would make life easier for subgame authors. No more managing wikis which get instantly outdated after every release anyways.

I found it pretty hard to get into the subgame Realtest. Documentation on this game is extremely poor, I had a hard time to even make fire! I had to scratch the tiny information bits from the poor (because incomplete/poorly written) wiki to actually do anything. I still think Realtest is great, but it is really hard for newbies. I was like, go to wiki, play, go to wiki, play again, etc. It gets very annoying. xD
I bet that some sort of self-documentation would make Realtest much less a pain in the ass to get into.

3rd. I don't know... WAIT ummmm yes there is something, i think a manual to buy isn't bad...

Whatever, I don't care as long you don't use copyright to prevent others from distributing it. :P

And I pretty much ignore the Minetest merchandise. xD
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Fri Feb 19, 2016 23:15

Seifqi:

You don't read the EDIT part!
"Edit:And other languages that aren't translated yet?"
Anyways i think is better have good and not so much +16 players than bad and many -16 players IMHO i think have not so much but good thing is better than have many but not so good 10 wooden swords aren't better than 1 Mese Sword you understand!



Wuzzy:

Wuzzy wrote:There is no Spanish translation because nobody made one. I don't speak Spanish, so obviously I can't do it. I will happily include any translation of the tutorial. :-)
The tutorial started with English and later German because these are langauges I know. Simple as that.


I understand Bro!, this is a a comunity project and the comunity does it, but i think Translate Minetest Subgame is more important than translate Tutorial Subgame.

Wuzzy wrote:I don't think it is neccessary to add strategy guides. Also, of which subgame are you talking of? Probably not Minetest Game, there is not much of a strategy to play this thing because this is just a sandbox. Or what do you mean?
I thought you want a manual, not a strategy guide. You don't need to know all possible openings to be able to play Chess. Learning Chess is pretty easy, mastering it much harder. :P
But if someone feels the need to write a strategy guide, well, go ahead. xD



Strategy guides for minetest severs as CTF or Hunger Games, or for mods(how they work, and stupid tricks that make your game easier!), or how get mese faster!
I think every game has a strategy for most stupid that be
About the "strategy guide" in really, some of that stuff will have the manual!
About chess example everything isn't easier in this life inclusive sometimes work in a pc or Minetest is an hard thing!
Minetest is easier when you know how to craft and everything but in a Hunger Games server everyone will win you, if you don't know what to do!

Wuzzy wrote:The download argument is a good one. Sadly, it is much harder to actually download and store (!) webpages or even entire websites than it should be. The Web really sucks in this regard.
Personally, I am more a “proponent” if the idea of self-documentation. That is, putting all relevant documentation right in the game itself. No external resources are needed. Want to know what block XYZ does? Look in the in-game help! Want to know how much damage sword ABC does? Look again. Etc.
I think players would also be much more likely to use the in-game help than any external form of help. It is more convenient.
Ideally, a player could start Minetest, play through a tutorial or something and know everything he/she/it needs to know about Minetest (the engine, that it). And if he/she/it starts a subgame, subgame-specific information can be looked up in Minetest as well. It is already annoying to look up every single craft, but at least there are crafting guides.
Also, in more complex subgames or mods like Technic you don't even know what each node does. It is inconvenient to look it up in the wiki and a manual would not be much better in this regard.
And stuff like groups are almost completely invisible to the player right now, although these are very important.

The player should not have to leave Minetest to be able to play it, this is the idea. And Minetest is VERY far from this. Currently, Minetest does not even communicate the controls in a good way. Some of the interesting features (minimap, camera, cinematic mode) are not even mentioned in Minetest, you have to know from the wiki (or by accident) that they exist.
I have actually thought to make a mod about this, but it did not went far so far. :/
Another bonus of this is it would make life easier for subgame authors. No more managing wikis which get instantly outdated after every release anyways.

I found it pretty hard to get into the subgame Realtest. Documentation on this game is extremely poor, I had a hard time to even make fire! I had to scratch the tiny information bits from the poor (because incomplete/poorly written) wiki to actually do anything. I still think Realtest is great, but it is really hard for newbies. I was like, go to wiki, play, go to wiki, play again, etc. It gets very annoying. xD
I bet that some sort of self-documentation would make Realtest much less a pain in the ass to get into.


That's why i think about the manual
See in the wiki everytime %/()/)= Time is bored and anoying, if you have the manual you can read it before play and know what do, or inclusively you can have close to you if you need to know anything! That's my idea and proposit with the manual something easy and simple to read at the start Noob or Minecrafter Stuff and Terms At the end Minetester terms, codes and geek stuff! a totally pro!
About Subgames i think the mod creators should do something instead says ABC Sword , says ABC Sword #Attack #range and that values!
The wikis don't be so needed only if you want to know more than necesary!

Wuzzy wrote:Whatever, I don't care as long you don't use copyright to prevent others from distributing it. :P

And I pretty much ignore the Minetest merchandise. xD


Well in really manual will be free as in freedom no one can sell it except i the creator but that money earned goes to minetest!
You can download it inclusive have copies in paper ,always you don't sell it ,well be fine!
And i think i can do some good minetest merchandise Sam MiniToys or Maybe a NoteBook Like:


"What You Will do Today?

I Will Goto Mine Default:Mese

(Mese Texture? A Steel Pick?)."

Yes, You Understand!


Anyways To the Manual Purchase Be good and cool i think maybe we can give something as Gift:
-A Mese Mini Block
-A Mug (With some minetest figure or someting like that)
-Another thing?
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by DatJohnDoe » Tue Feb 23, 2016 01:17

A tutorial mapgen for a tutorial world?
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by slopsbucket » Wed Feb 24, 2016 06:57

I just want to lend a little moral support to MineYoshi.

I had exactly the same trouble when I first started playing Minetest. The wiki is very good but it's missing some very basic information.

This is compounded by the fact that when they go to the Getting Started page it looks like a whole heap of technical jargon that is very off putting. When they see Mac and Linux instructions below that they don't go any further. They never see the bottom half of the page.

I think it's also important to use terms that the average Windows user will understand.

Unzip the Minetest folder to your desktop.
Open the Minetest folder then open the Bin folder.

Etc,

I'm not being facetious there, I'm used to talking people through this sort of stuff all the time, it's not just a Spanish translation that's needed, the English needs some work as well.

Also I believe that MineYoshi is describing exactly the problem I complained about when I first started playing. The wiki is very very good but what it's missing is the very initial first up "What do I do?" information. When I click "Play" it gives me an error.".

The missing information is something like:

Open Minetest.

Click the square button it the top right hand corner of the window to make it go big.

Click the button that says "New" to create a world to play in. In the new screen click the button that says "Create" to create a new world, doing this sends you back to the main screen. Now you can click "Play" to play the game.

When you start a new game you can move the mouse to look around, moving the mouse will also change your direction when running. Use the "W" key to run around.

Search for a tree and run up close to it......

Etc.

I don't think MineYoshi is talking about a full on game strategy guide, just this very first time start information like you will find in the manual for most other games.

I recently suggested Minetest as a game suitable for therapeutic reasons to a group of scientists studying Autism and this was exactly the information that they couldn't find in the wiki, I had to write a tutorial for them. They agreed that Minetest was a fantastic diversion for their study group but these people can not play online, someone interfering with their world would be very distressing. They don't go on the internet at all, they can't search the wiki and the forums. A simple ReadMe with the game would be of so much value.

My two bob's worth.

Cheers,

Andrew.
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Wed Feb 24, 2016 21:55

Well, at least someone understands my idea...

(Thanks God!)

Well, i will start to do it in a week! i have many things to do!

but if i do it in the wiki?
A section in the wiki with a pdf version to download!
Maybe...
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by slopsbucket » Thu Feb 25, 2016 03:32

Hi MineYoshi,

my personal thoughts are that a small and simple ReadMe.txt included with the game download are all that's needed, and it doesn't need to give too much detail, just enough to get started. I've created a draft sample below.

If you think a little more detailed version is required like a pdf with pictures I've also included a zip file with some rough images that can be edited and used, they match the text I've written. I don't believe in all this "license" rubbish, I'm giving you the pictures and I've said you can use them, end of story.

And your comment "Thank God", I understand how you feel, I ran into the same brick wall before.

I'm sorry that I don't speak any language besides English, I hope that what I've written will save you some time.

Cheers,

Andrew.


Unzip the Minetest folder to your desktop.
Open the Minetest folder then open the Bin folder.
Double click the Minetest.exe file to open Minetest.

Click the square button it the top right hand corner of the window to make it go big.

Click the button that says "New" to create a world to play in. In the new screen give your game a name then click the button that says "Create" to create a new world, doing this sends you back to the main screen. Now you can click "Play" to play the game.

When you start a new game you can move the mouse to look around, moving the mouse will also change your direction when running. Use the "W" key to run around. You can also use the Space Bar to jump. If you fall into water you can use the Space Bar (jump) to swim.

Use the "Esc" key to pause the game or close it. This menu also gives you a list of what the different keys do.

Search for a tree and run up close to it, when less than 4 blocks away use the Left Mouse Button to punch a section of the tree. You have to keep the button held down continuously instead of click click clicking it, you will notice cracks appearing in the tree trunk and after a few seconds the section of tree trunk you were punching will end up in your inventory.

Punch out a few more sections of tree then press the "I" key to enter your inventory. The inventory is split into two sections, the upper section is called the Craft Table. It has 9 squares to put items in and a single square on the right to collect what you have made. Click on your tree trunks to pick them up then click again to put them in one of the squares in the craft table.

Now the output box has a neat stack of planks in it, click on it to pick up 4 planks, then keep clicking until all of the trunks are converted into planks. Now put the planks back into the craft table and the output will be sticks, collect some sticks but don't use all your planks. You need at least 3 planks left over.

Put 1 plank in each of the top 3 squares of the craft table and put 1 stick in each of the 2 remaining squares down the middle to make a Wood Pickaxe. Tools made of wood are slow to use and don't last very long but now that you have a pickaxe you can collect stone. Stone tools will last longer and work more quickly.

Put the Wood Pickaxe in one of the top row of 8 squares in the main inventory section then press the "I" key again to exit the inventory. That top row of 8 squares show in normal game play, roll the mouse wheel to select which of these squares is highlighted. When one of these squares is highlighted the item in it will appear in your hand.

Now search around and find some stone, wield your pickaxe and collect at least 6 stone exactly the same way that you collected tree trunks. If you see any stone with black streaks in it collect those as well, they are coal.

Go back into your inventory and put 3 pieces of stone across the top of the craft table and 2 sticks down the middle to make a Stone Pickaxe. Put 3 pieces of stone in 3 squares in the top left corner and 2 sticks down the middle to make a Stone Axe for chopping more wood. Put 1 piece of coal and 1 stick immediately below it to make 4 torches, you'll need these when exploring caves.

There are very many different items that can be made in this way, visit the Minetest Wiki to find more recipes. As you explore deeper into the earth (by mining and exploring caves) you'll find stone with metals and minerals in them that let you build better tools.
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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Thu Feb 25, 2016 23:14

Well that draft is good well.
Maybe i do what you say and what i say.
So, a little starting version
and a little big version if you want to know more!
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by slopsbucket » Fri Feb 26, 2016 07:28

Thank you MineYoshi.

I look forward to seeing both versions.

If you wish any more help from me I am more than happy to help, it's something I believe will be useful.

Cheers,

Andrew.
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by MineYoshi » Fri Feb 26, 2016 22:59

I start to do a version in spanish in the wiki of the short manual, soon i will make a english version!

(Well maybe a day or two!...)

...
 

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Re: [Idea]Make a Minetest manual for begginers!

by garywhite » Sat Feb 27, 2016 06:36

You could host it on a free website such as Google Sites, then provide a link on the forums. That way there's no confusion with the wiki
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