DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

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TheReaperKing
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DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 01:10

I work at a school with kids K-8th and I would really love having them browse these forums and gits and try out new mods especially over our summer camp and at home but the WTFPL makes it so that I can't even suggest them doing it. As an alternative I have created this license that I hope people will use. I'm not a legal expert but I will be asking what lawyer friends I know how the language needs to improve if at all. This is of course based on the WTFPL text. Let me know what you think!

Code: Select all
DO WHAT YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
or abbreviated DWYWPL

December 2nd 2015
License Copyright (C) 2015 Michael Tomaino (PlatinumArts@gmail.com)
www.sandboxgamemaker.com/DWYWPL/

DO WHAT YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

1. You are allowed to do whatever you want to with what content is using this license.
2. This content is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the use of this content.


EDIT - Creative Commons Zero aka CC0 is a great license to use as well and is essentially the same as WTF but way more respected.
Last edited by TheReaperKing on Mon Aug 15, 2016 13:08, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by benrob0329 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 02:13

Seems fine to me.

Other alternatives would be MIT, Zlib, CC0, or ISC.
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 03:03

I like those licenses too! If no one uses my license but uses one of them that's fine with me, just a bit less of the WTF language would help a ton. Also I'd like to understand more what is bad about public domain because my understanding is that people were saying that the license can vary what it means per country. Very interesting indeed.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by benrob0329 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 04:39

That's about it, the meaning of "Public Domain" and whether or not its allowed varies per state/country (some places don't allow it at all).

So it's best to simply place your code under WTFPL/CC0 style licenses instead, as they will be far more legal than saying "Public Domain".
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by xeranas » Mon Mar 21, 2016 06:10

I do not know in which reality you live thinking that 8th olds does not known these bad words. You seems wasting your energy on trivial problems.

If you want some content control and also save time for kids - create subgame with predefined mods which you think is worth/fun or appropriate to try. You can easily re-license WTFPL mods in you subgame into MIT or other license.
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 06:57

Part 1 - Whether the kids know the words or not makes zero difference. It is a school setting and there are rules. That is the reality I must abide by.

Part 2 - I have already done that and guess what I've changed the license to? But the more that use this license over WTF or any other license vs WTF is a lot less work for me and other educators and it enables me to let the kids browse a lot more of the minetest gits. For the no work of using this license for the creator over WTF, it saves a lot of hassle.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by twoelk » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:37

I think TheReaperKing is absolutely correct and I have run into similar problems with public educational institutions that have difficulties with that license. Just think of automatic filters that try to keep porn of the school computers by scaning for certain words.

It's ok for children to know such words exist in my opinion but they shouldn't be taught that swear words are perfect for legal texts. Have you ever tried to translate that license to another language? This exact expression doesn't exist in every language and you have to come up with some similar strong vulgare idiom that when translated word for word back into english may get you into other trouble.

One reason legal text sometimes sounds so strange is that it must be absolutely clear in it's meaning and in today's globalized world relative easy and safe to translate.

I can understand the appeal of the WTFPL license for certain age groups and set of minds but that doesn't mean that it is good functional legal language that works well. In fact one of the basic purposes of this license is to mock legal wording and maybe even express disgust for the necessity to having to add some legal text at all.
Last edited by twoelk on Wed Mar 23, 2016 03:21, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by ExeterDad » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:36

I used to packager for a particular Linux distro about ten years ago. When testing a very cute kids game, the welcome screen proudly displayed the WTFPL license and the full text immediately on load. I had a problem with this. I know it's my choice to decide what my children see and don't see. I can choose not to allow them to play. I can also choose to edit the sources to not show the license like a billboard, but not everyone has that ability. I ended up refusing to package the game.

Don't get me wrong. I can appreciate the humor in the license. I've even used the license myself. I'm not proud of it, but my kids know the words. They even have heard me utter or even yell them a time or two when I'm frustrated about things. But I don't use those words when conversing with them, and would never intentionally put those words in front of them and be able to justify it.

So I support TheReaperKing fully. I have young children in school. And it comforts me that teachers are watching out for them.
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by jp » Mon Mar 21, 2016 14:09

Oh my god, it says "fuck" in an acronym. That's truly obnoxious, indeed...

Image

FWIW, I'm not going to use your license. I don't give a single shit about the political correctness, for most of devs only good code matters.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by Don » Mon Mar 21, 2016 14:33

I agree and I will change my licence over to DWYWPL.

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by ExeterDad » Mon Mar 21, 2016 14:46

jp I get it. I really do. And you have the right to be disgusted. I don't use the term "political correctness" loosely as you do. Political Correctness has nothing to do with it. It's my choices as a parent that set my standards. And as a parent guilty of being selfish and irresponsible in the past before I had my own children. I'm willing to be considerate of others that are concerned about what their children may be exposed to unnecessarily.
 

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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by Don » Mon Mar 21, 2016 14:58

ExeterDad wrote:jp I get it. I really do. And you have the right to be disgusted. I don't use the term "political correctness" loosely as you do. Political Correctness has nothing to do with it. It's my choices as a parent that set my standards. And as a parent guilty of being selfish and irresponsible in the past before I had my own children. I'm willing to be considerate of others that are concerned about what their children may be exposed to unnecessarily.

I also see it as making Minetest available to more people. If the licence is making it so people and schools will not use a mod then it seems that a change is needed. It is a simple change and will allow more people to use that mods.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by jp » Mon Mar 21, 2016 15:01

By the way, WTFPL allows literally anything, even re-licensing on your own if you find the wording unacceptable.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by gunvolt » Mon Mar 21, 2016 21:30

Nice idea for WTFPL users, but as a copyleft license user (a fan of GPL and CC-BY-SA-NC) it definitely isn't for me. Those who use the WTFPL should definitely relicense, because the DWYWPL doesn't really change the wording. In the end it is:
1. All rights granted
2. No guarantee of warranty
3. end
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by MineYoshi » Mon Mar 21, 2016 21:40

...

i don't know i will use WTFPL when i need it!

...
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by rubenwardy » Mon Mar 21, 2016 21:48

gunvolt wrote:Nice idea for WTFPL users, but as a copyleft license user (a fan of GPL and CC-BY-SA-NC)


NC is not an open source license, let alone copy left.

Note commercial != proprietary

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.en.html
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TumeniNodes » Mon Mar 21, 2016 22:26

It is a matter of morals, to me.
As a father of two children, I have always had a serious issue with the rapid decay of morals across society.
I am strongly against PC because all it seems to do is to be a way to excuse those with low morals for their behavior.
I like this new license and the more moral wording.
It is never a bad thing to be courteous, considerate of the innocence of youth, it is even respectful.
In America, I have witnessed a steady decline of morals, and all this PC crap, where now what used to be unacceptable behavior in society has become acceptable and to speak against it is now the "wrong".
Everything is in reverse. So I applaud anyone who has good morals doing something to make changes which exhibit respect, courtesy, and consideration for others.
Morals have steadily decline simply because it is the easier way to go, than to put effort into being "better than", as well as dealing with the criticism and attacks from others with lesser morals with the common "oh, so you think you're better than me?!"
My response has always been "No, I don't think I am better than you..., I know I am better than you.
Anyway, this is why I only have a couple of very close friends in life, because I definitely do not "blend" with today's society. But my life is richer for it .
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 22:32

jp I really appreciate your opinion and I myself am not interested in the crazy political correctness of today, but I think your unhappiness with the DWYWPL is misplaced. It is not up to me whether or not swear words can be used or even viewed at school, it cannot be. If you dislike political correctness then your anger/annoyance or however you feel should be directed at those who impose those silly restrictions on the rest of us, not myself or the DWYWPL. I personally don't think using swear words at school or with children is necessary and would avoid it, but as far as political correctness in general I would agree that it has gone way overboard. In this case though I have no choice, it is not up to me.

And the WTFPL isn't only viewed as an acronym, many of the license users have it spelled out in their mod gits. I am definitely not saying that the DWYWPL is the best license to use either, nor am I trying to get people to use it over a non WTFPL. The entire intent is simply as a WTFPL alternative that can make the work accessible to more people aka kids and specifically kids at school. I did also add a clause about no warranty which I think is super important. Without that WTFPL users could potentially be liable for damages their software creates, I believe at least and is pointed out in the wikipedia entry. It is a very interesting read actually:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL

I hope that all makes sense and for myself I would probably never use DWYWPL, I would use either zlib, or LGPL or maybe GPL3. I do like being credited though so that's my reason :) Take care and thanks everyone for your great insight!
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by gunvolt » Mon Mar 21, 2016 22:39

rubenwardy wrote:
gunvolt wrote:Nice idea for WTFPL users, but as a copyleft license user (a fan of GPL and CC-BY-SA-NC)


NC is not an open source license, let alone copy left.

Note commercial != proprietary

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.en.html

I don't really use it for software, just for art. I guess instead of copyleft it could be called a share-alike license(cause CC calls them that)
I know that commercial is not proprietary, they have very different definitions.
But you are right, it is technically not a FLOSS license and I have no plans on using it for software (or software documentation for that matter)
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by Don » Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:42

To me it is simple. It does not matter what I think of swear words. If a simple change means the mods will be used by more people then I will do the simple change.
Growth of the community is more important then 5 letters.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:49

Don that is completely the point of my creating the new license, thank you for understanding :)
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by rubenwardy » Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:54

I changed all my mods which were WTFPL to CC0.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by TheReaperKing » Tue Mar 22, 2016 00:13

Ruben that works too and thank you! Coincidentally I have been working with your CTF Mod to make it kid friendly so that they can have water balloon battles haha.
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by MineYoshi » Tue Mar 22, 2016 20:45

And how are the physics?

that a bit hard, better do paintball!
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Re: DWYWPL A Kid Friendly Alternative to the WTFPL

by celeron55 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 22:13

I agree that WTFPL was a better idea a few years ago when Mine* was more of a college kid thing rather than a family thing.

However, it's practically impossible to switch every piece of content away from that license, and regardless of that, going around changing licenses is not something I consider respectful towards the people who have originally made stuff under said license. Even then, that license is not the only place around here containing such language.

The good thing is, the nature of WTFPL is such that if you want to use something licensed under it for teaching or whatnot, you can legally just strip away the license, replacing it with nothing or absolutely anything you desire.

For those who want to switch away from WTFPL, I strongly suggest CC0. Its intention is the same, but it has more legalese to cover everyone's asses if things go really bad.

If there is need for a "kid-correct" english forum, maybe I or somebody else could host one. I'm a bit doubtful about whether enough content would be posted on it, and very doubtful about whether there's enough manpower for moderating it. It could work if some of these teachers want to take up the task. If people are interested, either post in this thread or PM me so that I can try to estimate the chances of success for such a thing.
 

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