My ideas for improving Minetest

[XtremeHacker]

OK, so Minetest is a bit rough around the dges, let me introduce myself.
I'm a computer guru, always tinekering and such
I was introduced to Minecraft sometime in 2015 IIRC
I was introduced to Minetest by octacian end of Jul, 2016
I really like playing modded Minecraft, and I love FOSS, so Minetest seemed perfect. :)

Before you say "oh, another Minecraft lover", hear me out, Minetest is a game, sure 110% of users are us fellow tinkerers, but it would be nice to have some Minecraft/video game newbies wanting to try out Minetest

Now, after playing, trying mods, and I'm just starting to learn how to mod, I've noticed the following

• 1: Minetest_game is a game, right? Bare bones, but still a game, so why not treat it like one, no reason to be afraid of adding new cool content! :)
  2: the launcher, it needs some work, maybe setup kinda like Feed The Beast. (what Feed The Beast is, from mc-launcher.com)

  The Feed The Beast Launcher is a launcher program, which presents users with a window to select accounts and settings, like the official Minecraft launcher. In addition, the user is also able to select mod packs, maps and texture packs to enhance the game experience.

  Then new players can download mod packs easily (maybe even just the launcher would be able to download from git links)?
  3: why all the controversy about implementing stuff that Minecraft has implemented? I mean, no need to add shulkers and a female dragon in a place called the End, but why not add (configurable?) double chests, or generated structures, or whatever?
  4: Backwards compatibility , I get it, it is one thing that can make Minetest nice to mod, but It's a double-edged sword, keeping everything compatible, but preventing progress, how to have a migration for backwards compatibility breaking changes you say, well thanks octacian for this idea

  Why not have a 0.5 branch for adding all these game breaking stuff too, but also have the "legacy" 0.4 branch, then we aren't freezing development for a long period of time, and active mod authors can still have time to make they're mods 0.5 compatible. Also, making a mod compatible with a newer version would still be pretty easy due to the awesome modding oriented coding. :)

  5: Pull Requests, I've noticed some pull requests not getting in because a core dev says no, I understand sloppy code, makes no sense, or just weird PR's, but what about good PRs, that a majority of regular users support, should one person be able to say no (of course celeron55 has final say, being the "leader" in a way), I think a more voting focused method should be used, ugly code shouldn't be merged of course.
  6: APIs, APIs are good for when you need to access stuff lots of times, but not every PR needs to add YAA (Yet Another API) right?

I'm sorry if I somehow offended anyone, or I don't agree with how you think, or if my post causes your computer to blow up due to length. xD
I only wanted to share my thoughts as both a game player, game tinkerer, and starting game developer.

P.S. Any flame wars started, shall not be started by me, I am OK with a civil discussion, fan boy-ism, and flaming is not appreciated.

[octacian]

Thanks for posting this, I hope it gets the attention of the MT community.

As XtremeHacker already covered nearly everything, I'll just add a few notes about the/a launcher. I'm planning on having a basic (and good looking) available by the ~5th of March. It will use Electron to make use of web technologies on the desktop. It will be a stand-alone package that allows you to easily have multiple versions of MT installed at once and easily switch between them as well as update them at the click of a button. Not only that, but I plan on implementing an easy method to install mods, subgames, and texture packs. I'd also like to implement a 3D skin creator, though that might take me a bit longer.

Overall, I plan on putting together an intuitive and useful external launcher for MT, which I hope will be accepted by the community as a better way to manage your MT installation.

Anyways, that's just my extras on the launcher. I'm fully in agreement with everything else XtremeHacker said above, and I hope that the rest of the community will take notice as well.

[the_raven_262]

Well, i don't know why double chests have not been added yet anyway, except that they might be a bit useless (though they would require to be made models, since it would be less laggy when placing models than two connected nodeboxes oO).
As for the launcher, yes it definietly is a good idea, keep it up :D
I don't see why is that hard to make a 3D skin creator... but you could use different textures that are just combined by the user (example: there are different textures for hair, user chooses one of them and program just added it to the main texture, and so for every specific part of the skin.)
Also, I believe that minetest would grow much faster if we somehow... expanded the community? More like getting people to know of its existence, without saying "its just another minecraft clone", which it isn't, and devs are trying to make it different from minecraft just for this reason.
To make it different from minecraft (and others), we need some original content, which is also why copying minecraft isn't the option, but some of the minecraft's features have to be implemented (like shift+click moving items in the inventory) to make the game more playable and more appealing to the new players, or former minecraft players.
I guess that is all I had to say on this case.

[u19503]

XtremeHacker I totally agree!

[garpu]

Some sort of centralized list of modpacks and subgames would be lovely, speaking as one coming from Minecraft. I would also like to see a few more big, progression-oriented mods (I'm thinking of thaumcraft, botania, stuff like that.) Or maybe they do exist? It's kind of hard to see what is and isn't actively being developed. The notion of a subgame vs. modpack is confusing, as well.

The thing that really built the minecraft community are servers and streamers. I think if there were more of either (or with higher visibility), that would grow the community, as well.

[XtremeHacker]

Well, i don't know why double chests have not been added yet anyway, except that they might be a bit useless (though they would require to be made models, since it would be less laggy when placing models than two connected nodeboxes oO).
As for the launcher, yes it definietly is a good idea, keep it up :D
I don't see why is that hard to make a 3D skin creator... but you could use different textures that are just combined by the user (example: there are different textures for hair, user chooses one of them and program just added it to the main texture, and so for every specific part of the skin.)
Also, I believe that minetest would grow much faster if we somehow... expanded the community? More like getting people to know of its existence, without saying "its just another minecraft clone", which it isn't, and devs are trying to make it different from minecraft just for this reason.
To make it different from minecraft (and others), we need some original content, which is also why copying minecraft isn't the option, but some of the minecraft's features have to be implemented (like shift+click moving items in the inventory) to make the game more playable and more appealing to the new players, or former minecraft players.
I guess that is all I had to say on this case.

Exactly! No need to make an exact clone, but no need to re-invent the wheel either. :)

[ABJ]

The MT community officially declares this thread blasphemy by yet another Minepooper.

[octacian]

Really ABJ.. This is a bit more serious IMO than that. I agree in entirety with XtremeHacker, on the other hand, I played MC for a year or two, two years ago - if you really want something to get after me for too :P

I will say, though, I for one, far prefer MT over MC as it is, but, none of XtremeHacker's points were "blasphemy."

[TumeniNodes]

"5: Pull Requests, I've noticed some pull requests not getting in because a core dev says no, I understand sloppy code, makes no sense, or just weird PR's, but what about good PRs, that a majority of regular users support, should one person be able to say no (of course celeron55 has final say, being the "leader" in a way), I think a more voting focused method should be used, ugly code shouldn't be merged of course."

This has been brought up quite a few times and, has also been addressed by the devs each time.
In my own opinion, having been involved with dev teams in the past..., I have to say this is something which seriously should be left to the devs and Celeron55.

I think all would agree how perfect it would be to be able to simply cast a poll for each PR to pass via users voting but, then you need to remember a few points.

#1 this forum's community is but an extremely small portion of users, and most are users who do more in the way of modding, creating texture packs etc... so not a very viable assessment of "most average end users".

#2 just because a PR might be popular among most who would even know about the poll, does not mean it should be merged / committed / implemented, for various reason. It might be a Pandora's box, it might require some serious engine changes, or a whole slew of other reasons.

I think the dev team does take this PRs situation quite seriously, and they also all do so without pay. This is all volunteer.
I imagine some may at times feel what they do is unappreciated or not deemed as "enough" and become disenchanted or basically fatigued.

Of course the votes in-dev will always come down to either one or a couple of votes to pass or not... this is the way most business models and projects operate... How is it unfair?

I feel it's more unfair when people feel the need to criticize and or complain about something which has been provided for free, and even worked on for free by others.

I'm perfectly fine with core devs deciding what goes in and what does not, as well as leaving it as a decision between them, and for them to discuss or even argue about... they are the ones keeping this venture open and operational...

To be honest, there were times when I would respond to some criticisms with a resounding "THLPPLPTLTPTLPT"
in the past when working on projects as a developer.
It did not always go over brilliantly but, it always got my point and feelings on the matter across :D

I just wanted to address that portion of your opinions, and I am not expressing my opinion in any anger or harsh feeling toward you.
It is just that if you search these forums, you will see this very subject comes up randomly but also in cycles. And I honestly feel using a user based voting system regarding PR inductions would fail in this project.

And finally, nice to meet you... I look forward to seeing what you will be able to contribute. Seeing as you seem to be an acquaintance of octacian, I assume you are rather skilled and talented : )

[TumeniNodes]

Really ABJ.. This is a bit more serious IMO than that. I agree in entirety with XtremeHacker, on the other hand, I played MC for a year or two, two years ago - if you really want something to get after me for too :P

I will say, though, I for one, far prefer MT over MC as it is, but, none of XtremeHacker's points were "blasphemy."

I think ABJ may be on a sugar rampage again :P

[ABJ]

Hahahahahaahahasaaaaahhhhhhhahahahahahahahhaahahashishaahahahahahahahjhhhha someone made the magic statement making up x total too many times I've heard it so I lost it.

btw Russian girl accent what means sugar rampage?

[TumeniNodes]

btw Russian girl accent what means sugar rampage?

Too much halva and Tarhun :D

[XtremeHacker]

"5: Pull Requests, I've noticed some pull requests not getting in because a core dev says no, I understand sloppy code, makes no sense, or just weird PR's, but what about good PRs, that a majority of regular users support, should one person be able to say no (of course celeron55 has final say, being the "leader" in a way), I think a more voting focused method should be used, ugly code shouldn't be merged of course."

This has been brought up quite a few times and, has also been addressed by the devs each time.
In my own opinion, having been involved with dev teams in the past..., I have to say this is something which seriously should be left to the devs and Celeron55.

I think all would agree how perfect it would be to be able to simply cast a poll for each PR to pass via users voting but, then you need to remember a few points.

#1 this forum's community is but an extremely small portion of users, and most are users who do more in the way of modding, creating texture packs etc... so not a very viable assessment of "most average end users".

#2 just because a PR might be popular among most who would even know about the poll, does not mean it should be merged / committed / implemented, for various reason. It might be a Pandora's box, it might require some serious engine changes, or a whole slew of other reasons.

I think the dev team does take this PRs situation quite seriously, and they also all do so without pay. This is all volunteer.
I imagine some may at times feel what they do is unappreciated or not deemed as "enough" and become disenchanted or basically fatigued.

Of course the votes in-dev will always come down to either one or a couple of votes to pass or not... this is the way most business models and projects operate... How is it unfair?

I feel it's more unfair when people feel the need to criticize and or complain about something which has been provided for free, and even worked on for free by others.

I'm perfectly fine with core devs deciding what goes in and what does not, as well as leaving it as a decision between them, and for them to discuss or even argue about... they are the ones keeping this venture open and operational...

To be honest, there were times when I would respond to some criticisms with a resounding "THLPPLPTLTPTLPT"
in the past when working on projects as a developer.
It did not always go over brilliantly but, it always got my point and feelings on the matter across :D

I just wanted to address that portion of your opinions, and I am not expressing my opinion in any anger or harsh feeling toward you.
It is just that if you search these forums, you will see this very subject comes up randomly but also in cycles. And I honestly feel using a user based voting system regarding PR inductions would fail in this project.

And finally, nice to meet you... I look forward to seeing what you will be able to contribute. Seeing as you seem to be an acquaintance of octacian, I assume you are rather skilled and talented : )

Thanks for that nice, informed post, I completely understand what you are saying. :)

My point is some stuff doesn't get merged just because "Minecraft has it" which doesn't seem right IMHO, no need to re-invent the wheel.
ABJ, thanks for demonstrating what most people think about adding stuff that is like Minecraft.
P.S. Everyone, ABJ is on an MC killing spree, be careful. :ninja: :P
P.P.S. I'm just starting to learn Lua, so I'm not good at modding yet, so far I've been more a hardware/OS config tinkerer, so Minetest is nice for both fun, and learning. :)