Dev wants some Help with Game Ideas

gnarvin
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Dev wants some Help with Game Ideas

by gnarvin » Sun May 01, 2011 13:18

Hey guys don't know if you've seen the most recent blog post, but the dev of this game is looking for some ideas to make the game more unique and not so much a minecraft clone.

These are some of my ideas I posted,

"I would try to get away from the exact Minecraft clone too, people are dumb and complain. That being said I have couple main ideas to add more content but not make it a minecraft clone at all.

First, I think you could do something maybe space oriented. You would start off in your normal world and you can gather material to make a spaceship and go out and explore other planets to get resources that didn’t exist on your planet. Plus you could make space stations design different ships that go faster. Lots more could be added to this, find random alien race that may be peaceful or hostile. Epic space battles.

Second, Something with time travel, sort of like the space idea but instead of different planets you go to different time periods. There would be different mobs, maybe different plants and trees. Not as much could be added to this as the space idea but it still could add more content that otherwise is not included at all in Vanilla Minecraft.

Third, Add magic and enchantments to weapons and tools, add some more story to it. Or more advance weapons like guns and stuff. Maybe have controllable NPC so you could build towns, cities, and an army. You could go take area with your army or take them peaceful by winning their trust somehow. It would be nice not to feel so alone when playing single player.
These are some ideas off the top of my head, can’t wait to see what direction you take this game in."

So what do you guys think of my ideas or maybe you have some better ones, either way post your thoughts and lets help take this game in a new direction.
 

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by celeron55 » Sun May 01, 2011 14:02

Actually many months ago we had a discussion on the Finnish IRC channel about adding different planets to the game. There are some problems with it.

First of all, using a single voxel world to contain round planets would make gravity a difficult thing to do, and it would be quite weird in any case. Secondly, the planets would be quite close to each other, and there would really be no much point in slower/faster spaceships. An alternative that would kind of fix these would be to make floating islands instead of round planets and planes or something. I'm not so sure about that...

You have to bear in mind that I have more limited time and resources to work on this than Notch has, and I can't possibly first make a complete Minecraft clone and in addition to that make huge additional systems. It quite much is necessary to modify some of the basics, at least a bit.

A second restriction is that it has to find good use for the voxel world engine. There are many good game ideas in which there is really no use for having an infinitely modifiable world.

The third restriction is that this is going to be multiplayer-over-network, so there is one thing typical to survival single-player RPGs that cannot be done: In some of those, the speed of time greatly varies along with what the players are doing. For example, if he is to chop down a tree or sleep, it will tick the clock quickly an hour. This is not possible in a multiplayer situation.
 

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by Fishkilleur » Sun May 01, 2011 14:02

+1 for space and other planet, with a portal to go from planet to planet ( as the neither portal of minecraft) ?

EDIT :

Why not recruit more developers ?
Put the source on a development platform online as Sourceforge or Launchpad ?
Last edited by Fishkilleur on Sun May 01, 2011 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by celeron55 » Sun May 01, 2011 14:57

It is on bitbucket, which allows more developers.

I don't think I am going to find interested, inspired and capable enough people.

But if somebody thinks he/she/a friend/whoever might be one, feel free to contact me.

I won't take anyone because I know many projects have died because of sloppy coding and lack of vision. I believe I can do slightly better all by myself than a bunch of random beginners.
 

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by HaiR » Sun May 01, 2011 18:04

Hi !

I've got some idea for the game. I never play Minecraft, so i can propose some stuffs which are in minecraft; and i'm not totally aware of what we can do or not. And last, it's my idea of a game, you could dislike it.

I was thinking to a system of achievements. Not like minecraft achievement's, but something like that: you could make several new materials, but rare, which would appear in some far points of the map. And many new items, craftable according to a technologic tree. The technologic tree will allow us to make new items, with which we could seek others rare materials, etc. And the achievements would be "technologies", like creating vehicules, special kind of building. For helping us to seek materials and/or build other amazing things :D

And of course, it would be easier to make it in group; the game would be more "social".

Or you can add a lot of weapons, mobs, etc, and we could kill each other :D it would be fun too.
That was my (bad) idea of the day :p
 

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by technics » Thu May 05, 2011 12:58

i really like the idea of the planets in some form, where you first get resources, evolve then once you have reached a limit you have to migrate and colonize another place. it would be really awesome if the world was a lot more alive with creatures and vegetation, perhaps even tribes, that also invent stuff (or learn to create tools if you give them to the tribes). a more lively world would make it a lot more fun to explore the strange world, especially if you'd have a space format exploring new planets would be very cool.
 

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by Evrim » Sat May 07, 2011 05:37

I would like to have smoother terrain loading and 3D models for rats, players and oerkkis

And magic, combat, LoZ style expandable health and enchantments would also be great in the future
Last edited by Evrim on Sat May 07, 2011 05:40, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by CIB » Sat May 07, 2011 12:17

WARNING: A very long post is following. I wanted to give my idea some credibility, so I ended up writing a bit more than expected. :)

Hey there.

Just today, I was playing minecraft for the first time in quite a while. When I played, I noticed how dynamic it was, and how little is done with that. So out of pure enthusiasm, I thought about how more could be done with that, and then I thought how it could be done, and then I remembered that this game existed! So it was rather funny when I came to this website and saw the post about gathering ideas.

The first clue to my idea: My problem with most MMOs out there(such as WoW) is that they're static. They don't allow for the player to influence anything. Rather, you just play through a linear storyline that is the same for anyone, no matter what other players have done or will do. I hear EVE online is an exception, but I can't be bothered to pay so much money for a game that probably doesn't run on my laptop.

The second clue: Have you played Dwarf Fortress? If not, it is a game that fully simulates a medieval fantasy world. "Fully simulates" includes a block-based 3d map similar to MC with mining, building, water, and so on. However, this alone would never give the impression of an authentic world(which is why MC still seems like some lego clone). Dwarf Fortress furthermore adds a well-done AI, a large-scale world and history generator and multiple civilizations and associated towns.

So basically, when playing DwarfFortress, you don't feel like you're all alone in a barren lego world, you feel like you're in an actual world that lives and evolves.


There are a few problems with DwarfFortress, however:
  • It uses a slice-view and ASCII graphics. Many people find this cool, but I feel a lot of potential players are turned off by this. While there are third party 3d renderers, they'll probably never work out too well, since the game wasn't designed with 3d rendering in mind
  • It lacks multiplayer. I *love* multiplayer, and this is exactly the gamesetting that would make for hours on end of great multiplayer experience.
  • The RPG mode(adventure mode) is very alpha and there's not a lot to do. The main dev focuses on the "Dwarf Fortress" mode, which is more of a building simulation.
  • The thing is closed source and the modding API is non-existent(you can only add items or change values of existing items, but no scripts)

So, while this may not be an actual "original idea", I think mixing the strengthes of MC and DF would fix both of the games' weaknesses, and create a game that is truly fun to play. Basically, I'd suggest turning minetest into a large-scale RPG with a huge dynamic world, where the player can just explore, interact with AIs, or make a difference(by, for instance, joining a kingdom and helping it in war).


What would need to be done for Minetest?

There would have to be a simulation mode where not every single block is simulated, but rather large chunks(if minetest operates on chunks) are bound together into a large "supertile" with some values, and only these values are modified.

To give an example: You could have a chunk with a lot of trees in it. When all players leave this chunk, it is offloaded. However, an object remains that holds information such as "heavily forested". In the rough simulation, you have some lumberjacks enter the chunk. Rather than to chop down actual trees manually, the lumberjacks simply set the chunks information to "sparsely forested". When a player enters the chunk again, it is loaded again, but at the same time most of the trees are removed. With just one event happening, this will not save a lot of CPU, but since the world will likely be much larger than what the players can occupy, there may be dozens if not hundreds such events without any player entering the chunk.


Then, of course, there would have to be an AI for NPCs, and some town-building and similar algorithms. It would greatly increase the immersion I think if you could go to a town and listen to a local resident complain how difficult it was to build that bridge over that river!

Last but not least, there'd have to be a good crafting system, a good combat system, and a good scripting system. By the last I mean that it should be easy for third party developers to add in stuff like a health system, or a more complex cooking system, and so on.


Now as to the implementation of these things.. I haven't read too much into your code so far, so I have to mainly rely on what I've read on your site. The maximum of 65kx65kx65k is large, but maybe not large enough for an entire world. Would it be expensive to increase this limit to 32bit? If so, maybe it would be possible to have the world split into multiple maps, which would also make it easier to distribute the world over multiple servers?

Speaking of multiple servers, for this to work out, it might help out to be able to divert some of the computations to a few (possibly elected) users. If you play this with your friends, you'll trust them not to cheat, and on large servers, you ought to have a trusted user base, as well.

Edit: It seems you already have the following point!
I also don't know the API of your gamelogic(objects, blocks, maps, players, etc.), but if possible I would suggest creating a lua API to these. There's a fast lua implementation called luajit which is incidentally the fastest dynamic language VM out there. It runs at roughly 1/10 C speed, which would be fast enough for most of the higher level routines. Using a dynamic language can save a lot of time.

I haven't thought too much about how the AI could be done, but with some simplifications(such as caching travel routes and closed rooms) it should be possible. It doesn't need to be too smart, just smart enough to add some immersion to the world.


That's it for my suggestion. Lots of work? Yes. Worth it? Totally. If I can make any time for it, I'd love to help with this, so if you're interested in this idea, I'm open to discuss it more and tinker with some code.
Last edited by CIB on Sat May 07, 2011 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
 

Evrim
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by Evrim » Sat May 07, 2011 13:29

1) Third Party viewers also are not Real Time, which makes them useless after all

2) It has a multiplayer mode over telnet, which is nearly done

3) Yeah, that's a problem - but it's Dwarf Fortress, you build

4) Modding can be done supervised by Toady


And yes, minetest can be upgraded in many ways
 

CIB
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by CIB » Sat May 07, 2011 13:47

Evrim wrote:2) It has a multiplayer mode over telnet, which is nearly done

Okay, that's awesome, why did noone tell me about this?!

3) Yeah, that's a problem - but it's Dwarf Fortress, you build

Exactly, which is why a game with some of DF's design features but a different goal would be nice to have. :)
 

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by Evrim » Sat May 07, 2011 14:10

Well there is Nethack and Rogue, just play those =P
 

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by HaiR » Sat May 07, 2011 14:47

Some of you talk about the planets, but Celron said it would be hard (because of gravity, etc), but what about making continent, separated by seas that we can't swin without drown itself ?

That could involve a technologic system which would allow us to make boats, etc. (that's almost the idea i gave earlier in the topic).

CIB, i don't understand everything you wrote, but i understand you talk about some stuffs that could *oblige* players to play together. I'm not sure you said that, but i think it could be a great idea (like seeking rare materials, creating boats together, etc).
 

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by CIB » Sat May 07, 2011 14:52

HaiR wrote:CIB, i don't understand everything you wrote, but i understand you talk about some stuffs that could *oblige* players to play together. I'm not sure you said that, but i think it could be a great idea (like seeking rare materials, creating boats together, etc).


Not at all. Working together would be as beneficial or non-beneficial as it is now. But certainly, interaction with other players as well as NPCs would play a bigger role, simply because it would give you many more opportunities to do things in the game.
 

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by adiblol » Sat May 07, 2011 18:17

If we are talking about ideas... there could exist new item, "robot", which would be crafted from something (we'll think about it later). It would be able to do everything human can do, but would be scriptable i.e. in Python. Programmable robots, something like Robocode or Colobot.
 

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by celeron55 » Sat May 07, 2011 20:11

CIB:
For this to happen (scripting, MMORPG, ...), I will need a bunch of talented and trustworthy programmers and whatever.

I am a realist and will only take goals that I have a chance of achieving. MMORPG cannot be done by one or two developers. I will not do scripting myself because it would take so much time with a limited probability of it giving any additional value to the game. And so on.

This basically is why I have gotten this far. I haven't targeted to anything non-achievable.

But I will probably target some of the issues you have mentioned, but on such a scale I or a few people can possibly handle.

And this goes to everyone: If you think you can... oh no, I mean, if you CAN take this project to the next level and would like to become a developer, come, state your desire and hang around on the IRC channel #minetest on Freenode and I'll see if you're worth it. I can promise I am worth being your co-developer.

I'd also like to mention that I managed to get a job for this summer, lasting to the end of July, so I won't be able to do much for that time.
 

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by CIB » Sat May 07, 2011 20:24

celeron55 wrote:I am a realist and will only take goals that I have a chance of achieving. MMORPG cannot be done by one or two developers.


While I did take MMORPGs as example, it's not what I have in mind. And yeah, not a good idea to get ahead of yourself. As far as I can see, the only part of my suggestions that could require some larger changes to the engine would be the "rough simulations", though even that could probably be modularized as long as the engine itself supports storing and loading parts of the map. I agree, it'd probably be best to look into features one at a time, and implement what can be done most efficiently. :)

Regarding scripting, there was some post pointing to some wikipedia article about lua scripting. It had nearly no information though. Was that even by you?
 

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by Fishkilleur » Sat May 07, 2011 20:48

I wish to help develop this project, but I'm not experienced enough yet, maybe in some time. ;)
 

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by Zylann » Tue May 10, 2011 09:33

That's the same for me (for Irrlicht and network parts), but I can help in an easy and important point :
Sound and music !
Minetest is a really silent world, even in multiplayer. It would be cool to hear stepping sounds, flowing water, mining, wind or birds singing, and it enables a new gameplay dimension ;)
Is music planned for Minetest? If so, I'm ready to compose if needed :)
Last edited by Zylann on Tue May 10, 2011 09:34, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Fishkilleur » Tue May 10, 2011 17:17

Zylann wrote:Minetest is a really silent world, even in multiplayer. It would be cool to hear stepping sounds, flowing water, mining, wind or birds singing, and it enables a new gameplay dimension ;)
Is music planned for Minetest? If so, I'm ready to compose if needed :)


It's a good idea, you should see what thinks celeron, but it must still program the module for sound.
 

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by hysteriax » Tue May 10, 2011 22:44

Ideas for Minetest-c55
- Moon planet textures.
- Ability to teleport to planets (worlds in Minecraft).
- Change name to PlanetMine.
- Buggies (cars) for Moon and Earth.
- Possibility of Mars planet?
- 3D Player model to be spaceman. Like different coloured, give user option.

I was taking some of the ideas previously mentioned.
I could possibly program this.

You could add a map generation setting. Like on singleplayer for the starting world.
Grouping the world textures and blocks for each Planet type.
Last edited by hysteriax on Tue May 10, 2011 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by Technetium » Wed May 11, 2011 19:38

I have an idea for a project influenced by Minecraft, but quite different. However, I am not a programmer (well, not one good or experienced enough to take on a project like this), so I'm hoping to inspire and influence someone who can do it. I wrote about this in your blog, as well, but I'll expand a bit here.

You would still retain the elements of a randomly-generated, block-based world. You would still be able to explore caves and find resources. You would still have to create buildings and other projects tediously.

However, I would drop the corny fantasy/medieval elements. I find the monsters are unnecessary and kind of a distraction from what I want the game to be about, which is creativity and imagination. Instead, I would put focus on more realism in terms of applications of physics and chemistry. Minecraft doesn't really seem to be going in this direction (in fact it seems to be moving farther from it with additions like The Nether and goofball crafting recipes like cake), which means my idea is a game that currently doesn't exist.

If I wanted to construct a tall building, it's not simply a matter of stacking blocks until it's tall. I have to make sure that the structure is sound, otherwise it will come toppling down. For really tall stuff, you would need heavy iron girders to support floor weight, otherwise the floors at the bottom would get crushed by the floors above. To do this, the game would store a value for each block for weight.

I'd like to see a system for designating blocks movable or fixed. For example, when you place a block, the side of the block you click on becomes the glued side that the block you're placing attaches to. But there would also be some way to put a block in place that isn't fixed to any side, and can be pushed around the way a minecart can (or that will fall due to gravity). You could add a further layer of complexity in that you can fix a block to another that is currently movable, and this would create two blocks joined together that are movable as a pair, and you could in fact do this with as many blocks as you want in order to create large objects that can be moved freely (although larger objects are heavier and after 2 or 3 blocks you would not be able to push it with just your hands).

The Redstone stuff in Minecraft is pretty neat, but can be made much better. I would propose being able to create a circuit box, which would have a small self-contained minecraft world of it's own (it's the interior of the box), where you can place metal blocks, and other types of blocks, to create a circuit. The blocks that go inside would be mini-blocks converted from the normal ones, so if you had an iron ingot, you could convert it into however many mini-blocks for circuitry use. I'd actually recommend adding copper ore for this purpose, and getting rid of another fantasy element (Redstone). To create a length of wire within the block, you just lay down a line of copper mini-blocks (or perhaps there's a recipe to create wire directly from copper). To simplify things, you could choose to replicate any existing circuit box instantly as long as you have the necessary materials. The game could even have some standard circuits already that you can use, although more complicated stuff you would need to create yourself.

There is some stuff for construction that I find missing from Minecraft. There should be a variety of stone types (granite, marble, and others not suitable for construction). You should be able to create panel blocks which are similar to doors in that they are thin and allow more interior space with the same number of blocks used. You can make panel blocks out of just about any block type, such as stone, iron, gold, etc. This would also be a way to coat a building with a rare material like gold without requiring an impossible amount of ore and without contributing significantly to the building size. Glass panels for windows.

A system of electricity based on power demand and supply would be much better than the one in MC where you can just press a stone button and an indeterminate amount of electricity is produced which is theoretically capable of providing power to an infinite number of needs. I'd rather see a system where a device has a specific power requirement, and you need to create some kind of power generation (perhaps by burning coal or wood to boil water to turn a turbine to generate electricity, all of which would be things you would have to build by hand, and would work not because the game has them preprogrammed to work, but because the physics engine of the game would make them working a natural result).

This would be a very challenging goal to aim for, but if it were viewed as an unreachable goal that can nonetheless be improved towards indefinitely, I think you'd have a really great game. The simplest way of putting my idea is, imagine that you want to be able to construct a massive modernized city by hand, complete with electricity that makes sense and enough variety in architecture to look realistic, and with functional subway systems which have full-size trains built out of blocks and powered by a creative energy system. This game would aim to make as much of that possible as is possible.
 

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by titformatt » Wed May 11, 2011 19:56

Hi guys and gals and celeron55. I just happened upon your project today. I have to say I'm quite impressed by what you have achieved to date. I look forward to trawling through your source code :P

Just on the topic of where to take the game, not being a minecraft clone as it were... there seems to be a lot of thought in the way of just taking the base concept of mining and transplanting it somewhere else. Which is a cool idea. I love a space game as much as the next guy... but I did have a thought while I was watching my buddy play COD and while he mentioned the next Red Faction game, why not go down that direction?

I'm thinking a multiplayer environment in little randomly generated city/country terrains. Being able to craft on the fly to make weapons and tools... digging out little fox holes...etc You have the whole multiplayer, shooter aspect with the ultimate Geomod?

Also, can I just make a suggestion for the crafting bench... were it still hanging around in this game in the future, could you make a bookmarking system where if I discover/make a new item that I can use a book mark facility to pull in the right items into the right place to speed up crafting?
Last edited by titformatt on Wed May 11, 2011 20:03, edited 1 time in total.
 

milkmandan
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by milkmandan » Thu May 12, 2011 17:31

Couple ideas, some simple, some not.

- Since the map is (significantly) larger and render distance further, scale the blocks down to 1/2 (or less) size allowing for more detail and smoother terrain, no more having to jump up a 30 deg slope hill. large trees can be rounded and branches more detailed/numerous. Should be relatively simple way to make for a much improved graphical appearance. Also, eliminates need for stairs as craftable blocks.

- Physics for liquids/powers. Proper liquid physics could add a significant new element to mining/construction. Underground water becomes a significant hazard. Powder physics make sand/gravel a lot more dangerous since they'd spill out to the sides as well as down. The difficulty isn't so much with the physics but dealing with how to handle steady flows of water without arbitrary sources. Perhaps a secondary process can map out surface topography and make sources during rains.

- Physics for (almost?) everything constructed. This is considerably harder to implement I realize but adds challenge to gameplay and more interesting options for PvP.

- A way to separate from MC. Embrace the fantasy/rpg element and have each player be magical and capable of manipulating the world through short range spells. Would go aways towards explaining why a single person can excavate a house sized quarry in a single day and give means to avoiding tedious tasks without breaking immersion.

I'd say the first three are either impossible or impractical to implement in MC either natively or as a mod.

Oh, I checked out a copy of the source and if I can get time/energy I'll see if I can implement some of this.
Last edited by milkmandan on Thu May 12, 2011 17:42, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by milkmandan » Thu May 12, 2011 19:50

A side question, since this is based off irrlicht, can't you use regular 3d models for some entities fairly easily? I was thinking biologicals might be better with models instead of blocks. Mobs, plants and trees in particular and modify so whole tree gets harvested at once. Without doing the shrink of the block size though, trees might make it look worse overall... unless you modify block display shape based on what surrounds them. Like 2d tile based maps that blend tiles together but instead of a texture, it's changing the shape. A bump map might work even.
Last edited by milkmandan on Fri May 13, 2011 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
 

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by benajamin » Sat May 14, 2011 16:45

What I'd like to see from the game is to add some houses to the map (can use a markov generator with the coords to generate names) and some NPCs to live there. Then have quests! The simplest version could just be "deliver this letter to Mr X, who lives in Y". Finding the town could be done by asking NPCs for directions (could be easy to code if the markov generator is reversible - i.e. can get the coords from the name). The quests could become epic if the destination is far enough away.
My thinking here has been influenced by the Yogscast "Shadow of Israphel" series on YouTube and the outdoor elements of the Legend of Zelda games. It would be enormous fun to go on long quest with friends (to throw a ring into a volcano perhaps? Or retrieving some sacred scrolls from the holy land to the west?), with lots of extra adventures on the side (slaying dragons, clearing a mine of undead, killing an orc raiding party, etc).
This kind of game makes good use of the game world and infinite map generation, while allowing the player to also ignore the quests if they want to. The required features to be added seem achievable:
*Village generation. (could be as simple as a single house - or just a sign even)
*NPCs that can respond to simple (prescripted?) questions.
*Quest log and system to keep track of events that would fulfill quests.
Extra quest content could be delegated to other, less experienced devs who want to help out. What causes me to tire of Minecraft is that there is no reason to go anywhere. Quests would give a reason to explore.
 

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