World size

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neko259
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World size

by neko259 » Post

What is the size of minetest world? AFAIK for minecraft it is around 2,147,483,648 nodes or more.

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Re: World size

by Krock » Post

Configurable

Minetest
X,Z axis: 2^16
Y axis: 2^16
Minus a few metres in each direction due the map generation chunks.
62000^3 nodes = 2.38328E14 = 238'328'000'000'000 nodes

Minecraft
Correct me if I'm mistaken with the values here..
X,Z axis: 2^32
Y axis: 2^8
Assuming it generates in the whole area.
(2^32)^2 * 256 blocks = 4.7223665E21 = 4'722'366'482'869'645'213'696


But both have in common that a fully generated world would not fit on a single harddrive.
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neko259
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Re: World size

by neko259 » Post

Krock wrote:But both have in common that a fully generated world would not fit on a single harddrive.
Why not? The database should compress the data good enough to fit several tebibytes of a hard drive.
And, thanks for the answer. I was searching for a parameter in minetest.conf but did not expect it to be called mapgen_limit, not map_size or world_limit or something.

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Re: World size

by paramat » Post

> What is the size of minetest world? AFAIK for minecraft it is around 2,147,483,648 nodes or more.

Only horizontally, the vertical size is only 256 cubes.
When i think about world size, the smallest axis is the most significant, so i consider MC extremely limited and less spacious than MT.

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Re: World size

by Wuzzy » Post

World height of 256 blocks …

Yep, a single Minetest world is around 238 times higher than a Minecraft world. LOL.

The Minetest community is still not laughing hard enough at Minecraft fanbois for this really lame limitation. :D
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Re: World size

by v-rob » Post

Wuzzy wrote:The Minetest community is still not laughing hard enough at Minecraft fanbois for this really lame limitation. :D
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!

XD
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Re: World size

by Linuxdirk » Post

paramat wrote:Only horizontally, the vertical size is only 256 cubes.
Yes, there are caves in Minetest deep underground that are higher than the whole world of Minecraft. And in Minetest I created buildings 200+ nodes high without even thinking of reaching the height limit, yes.

But overall Minetest worlds are tiny compared to Minecraft worlds. That is an undeniable fact.

Btw. people were able to create addressing systems that allows virtually unlimited sizes of worlds in all directions and coded them within a few days.

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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:Btw. people were able to create addressing systems that allows virtually unlimited sizes of worlds in all directions and coded them within a few days.
Was there done sth like that with Minetest? I wonder if there's a possibility of significant increase of the exoanse of the world in Minetest, or is it practically impossible due to some inherent constraints of the code?
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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Post

neko259 wrote:
Krock wrote:But both have in common that a fully generated world would not fit on a single harddrive.
Why not? The database should compress the data good enough to fit several tebibytes of a hard drive.
I'm afraid that the very nature of procedurally generated content is that it's not prone to compression. The compression is encoded in procedural algorithms already. Generated content has usually some pseudo-random characteristics and this by definition is not compressible.
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Re: World size

by Linuxdirk » Post

voxelproof wrote:I'm afraid that the very nature of procedurally generated content is that it's not prone to compression.
But the node metadata is.

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Re: World size

by sorcerykid » Post

I wonder why Minecraft opted for a world height of only 256 meters. Does that mean that subterranean exploration in MC is limited to a depth of 128 meters or perhaps something less?

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Re: World size

by twoelk » Post

sorcerykid wrote:I wonder why Minecraft opted for a world height of only 256 meters. Does that mean that subterranean exploration in MC is limited to a depth of 128 meters or perhaps something less?
64 !

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Re: World size

by Linuxdirk » Post

Minecraft’s internal API allows changing the height to 1024 (whole world height). Players can go up to 2^307-1 with mods. But it is not possible to build above 1024 (yet).

128 is only the pretty limited default value. Sea level is on 62 (not 64).

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Re: World size

by Punk » Post

Can I configure world size? How the smallest size possible?

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Re: World size

by Beinion » Post

Has anyone come across a decent size ocean in their travels? All the water areas I find turn out to be lakes. I remember on Minecraft (before it was sold to micro$oft) often had huge oceans in some games.
Minetest on the other hand is more like the interior of Canada or Finland with heaps of lakes.

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Re: World size

by v-rob » Post

Beinion wrote:Has anyone come across a decent size ocean in their travels? All the water areas I find turn out to be lakes. I remember on Minecraft (before it was sold to micro$oft) often had huge oceans in some games.
Minetest on the other hand is more like the interior of Canada or Finland with heaps of lakes.
Are you using mapgen v6? Use mapgen v7 instead. It has much larger oceans.

If you have small lakes in v7, then I don't know what's going on. Some settings were changed, probably.
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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Post

Beinion wrote:Minetest on the other hand is more like the interior of Canada


Yes, yes, yes. It's what I like. Sorta coming back to lakes near Algonquin Provincial Park. Unforgetable hot summer :)
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Re: World size

by Beinion » Post

V-Rob: I'm not sure which mapgen I'm using, I am fairly new to Minetest but I'm using version 0.4.13 of Minetest downloaded from the Software Manager in Linux Mint 18.1. The only reference that I can find for maps is in settings where it gives me the option of 'Generate Normalmaps' which is un-checked at the moment (should I check that box?).

Voxelproof: Don't get me wrong the lakes look good but every game I've played they have been very small.

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Re: World size

by Linuxdirk » Post

Beinion wrote:Has anyone come across a decent size ocean in their travels? All the water areas I find turn out to be lakes. I remember on Minecraft (before it was sold to micro$oft) often had huge oceans in some games.
But Minecrafts surface is tens to the thousands times larger than Minetest. Having the (in comparison) tiny surface of Minetest worlds in mind the world generator “v7” sometimes creates decent sized water bodies.
Beinion wrote:I'm using version 0.4.13 of Minetest
This version is pretty outdated though (2+ years). Currently 0.4.16 is the latest version and 0.5 will be released in a few weeks according to the roadmap discussed/voted on GitHub.

You might want to fetch the sources and compile for yourself :)

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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Post

Beinion wrote:Voxelproof: Don't get me wrong the lakes look good but every game I've played they have been very small.
Well, I don't know what you exactly mean by 'small', but lakes in 'my' worlds are large enough to have an illusion of a seashore as long as fog is enabled.

But even when full view range is enabled the lakes (not little ponds in the woods, which are by the way very charming) are large enough to go swimming for long minutes :-))

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Re: World size

by dawgdoc » Post

Beinion wrote:V-Rob: I'm not sure which mapgen I'm using, ..... The only reference that I can find for maps is in settings where it gives me the option of 'Generate Normalmaps' which is un-checked at the moment (should I check that box?).
For an existing world in singleplayer, you can check which mapgen was used on creation by going to :
/home/<username>/.minetest/worlds/<worldname>/map_meta.txt
For the one world I just checked, on line 44 I saw >> mg_name = v7
I think the default for both MT 0.4.13 and 0.4.16 is mapgen_v7, but not sure on this. You set the mapgen of a world at the time you create it. In the Local Game tab of the MT menu click New. In the window that opens the third line down is a dropdown selection menu for mapgen.
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Re: World size

by Inocudom » Post

I didn't know that you was still around, neko259. Well, you came back at a good time, because Minetest 0.5 is in the works. In the meantime, check out the great new mapgen project that Duane is working on, since it makes sufficient use of every single bit of those 238'328'000'000'000 nodes. If you are looking for a more retro experience, then take Voxelands for a spin (because it is back from the dead.)
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Re: World size

by Wuzzy » Post

Honest question: Did anyone ever hit the horizontal boundaries legit (i.e. in normal gameplay. So no cheats and no mindless walking for hours in the same direction just for the sake of it)?
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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Post

Wuzzy wrote:Honest question: Did anyone ever hit the horizontal boundaries legit (i.e. in normal gameplay. So no cheats and no mindless walking for hours in the same direction just for the sake of it)?
Frankly, I think that 64x64 km area is more than enough for any gameplay. What's more, 32 km height of the world is just absurd imho. It doesn't make any reason, bar maybe some 'skylands' mods - but how many players dream about reaching such insane altitudes roaming through such terrain?

Exploration of deep caves may be more intriguing when such depths are below. But again - how many players ever descended below -1000 ? Once I used to play exploring deep caves in Voxelands and going below -700 as I remember took almost half an hour due to maze-like structure of the cavern. It's funny first time, maybe second, but when you realize your'e not likely to find anything unusual, dangerous or beautiful except differently shaped empty spaces it becomes futile.

I think the only excuse for such gargantuan vertical size of the Minetest worlds might be further development of valleys mapgen - to achieve vertical elevations similar to those occuring in real mountains, e.g. Himalayas. I don't know how high goes Carpathian mapgen, but I suppose it's not much higher than circa 1000 nodes. Given that one block stands roughly for 1 meter, one should expect Minetest worlds with Himalaya-like mountain ranges reaching about 9000 nodes in height.

But that would require enlargement of the horizontal basis to accomodate such monstrous terrain features. Maybe that will happen some time in the future, but as for now I doubt that there are many who would dream about exploration of virtual worlds that much.
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Re: World size

by Beerholder » Post

voxelproof wrote:What's more, 32 km height of the world is just absurd imho. It doesn't make any reason, bar maybe some 'skylands' mods - but how many players dream about reaching such insane altitudes roaming through such terrain?
It depends what you want to do with it. With floatlands you can make higher elevations more interesting. I always loved the strata of coal blocks on Cash's World (without the floatlands), gave me an incentive to go up, path finding and planning a route up through the mountains. I even thought about making a game that offered a space biome by somehow integrating the mars survival features with the normal Minetest world. Sort of like on the ground you have air and you can visit space where there is vacuum, with asteroids, a nice skybox of the world as a planet below, requiring air tanks to get there and ability to create air like in Mars survival, etc. In Beerarchy the floatlands were primarily meant for players to hide a base there, but also, ores difficult to find underground spawn near the surface and certain plants (coffee ;-) can be found there as well, just to make it a bit more interesting up there.

If you make it worth the while for the players, they might actually go explore these elevations, resulting in effective use of the vertical space.

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