World size

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sorcerykid
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Re: World size

by sorcerykid » Sun Nov 12, 2017 13:40

There is a benefit to the seemingly useless vertical expanse -- multiple independent "worlds" within a single map each of which can have a common origin of 0,0. This is done on just test server, which has an underworld (or "cursed world") at -6000m iirc and the overworld at sea level. Other subgames even introduce what is known as a netherworld.

It's theoretically possible that one could place an unbreakable plane of bedrock between each strata to prevent people from digging through.
 

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Re: World size

by voxelproof » Sun Nov 12, 2017 16:35

sorcerykid wrote:There is a benefit to the seemingly useless vertical expanse -- multiple independent "worlds" within a single map each of which can have a common origin of 0,0. This is done on just test server, which has an underworld (or "cursed world") at -6000m iirc and the overworld at sea level. Other subgames even introduce what is known as a netherworld.

It's theoretically possible that one could place an unbreakable plane of bedrock between each strata to prevent people from digging through.


Kind of 'world sandwich'. Interesting. I wondered once if there's a possibility of introducing multi-dimensional worlds (not only overworld and Nether) by enabling switching between existing worlds in player's world folder from the game level (e.g. using portals calling loading specified world and placing player's character in predefined location there), but didn't think about this probably much simpler solution.
>>>there is life beyond the Cube>>>
 

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Re: World size

by v-rob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 01:10

Beinion wrote:V-Rob: I'm not sure which mapgen I'm using, I am fairly new to Minetest but I'm using version 0.4.13 of Minetest downloaded from the Software Manager in Linux Mint 18.1. The only reference that I can find for maps is in settings where it gives me the option of 'Generate Normalmaps' which is un-checked at the moment (should I check that box?).

Voxelproof: Don't get me wrong the lakes look good but every game I've played they have been very small.


0.4.13 is very outdated. The only mapgen you really have is v6, and that barely ever has oceans. Update to 0.4.16.
 

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Re: World size

by Beerholder » Mon Nov 13, 2017 13:16

voxelproof wrote:Kind of 'world sandwich'. Interesting. I wondered once if there's a possibility of introducing multi-dimensional worlds (not only overworld and Nether) by enabling switching between existing worlds in player's world folder from the game level (e.g. using portals calling loading specified world and placing player's character in predefined location there), but didn't think about this probably much simpler solution.


I was able to achieve this "sandwich" on my server using duane's underworld mod. If you were to introduce an unbreakable bed rock sort of layer between the underworlds and allow travel to them by integrating one of the portal mods, that could be one way to achieve something like this. I.e. have a look at the underworlds table:

https://github.com/duane-r/underworlds/ ... r/init.lua

Should not be too difficult to add "mini underworlds" with unbreakable nodes in between the underworld layers :)
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:44

Beinion, use latest MT, there are 2 new mapgens with larger oceans (Valleys and Carpathian).
All other mapgens have oceans limited to around 500 nodes by default, but you can configure terrain to be of any scale you want.
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 09:00

Inocudom wrote:I didn't know that you was still around, neko259. Well, you came back at a good time, because Minetest 0.5 is in the works. In the meantime, check out the great new mapgen project that Duane is working on, since it makes sufficient use of every single bit of those 238'328'000'000'000 nodes. If you are looking for a more retro experience, then take Voxelands for a spin (because it is back from the dead.)

Unfortunately, I prefer not wiping the world ever, so it does not make much sense to use some new mapgen if most of the space around zero is already explored and not many players would go far enough to hit the mapgen. I've tried v7 a couple of times and it generated rocky and watery lands without a single tree in the view range, so I suppose it is not very good for the new players that cannot even find wood to build a single tool.
 

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Re: World size

by hajo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19

neko259 wrote:space around zero is already explored and not many players would go far enough to hit the mapgen.
it is not very good for the new players that cannot even find wood to build a single tool.

Install travelnet-mod, and place a few stations at nice places.
Also, use worldedit to make some new places.
Last edited by hajo on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:21, edited 2 times in total.
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:20

hajo wrote:
neko259 wrote:space around zero is already explored and not many players would go far enough to hit the mapgen.
it is not very good for the new players that cannot even find wood to build a single tool.

Install travelnet, and install a few stations at nice places.

For now I don't even know there are nice places. I haven't seen any in my v7 experiements.
 

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Re: World size

by hajo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38

neko259 wrote:I don't even know there are nice places. I haven't seen any in my v7 experiements.

What server / world & seed ?
Eg. try mg7 with seed 7 - at least 4 different biomes within walking distance of spawn.
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 01:41

neko259 wrote:I've tried v7 a couple of times and it generated rocky and watery lands without a single tree in the view range

What version of MT? Mgv7 has had a complete set of biomes for 2 years now and has far richer biomes and far more interesting terrain than Mgv6. If you're referring to recent Mgv7 then yes occasionally you will be spawned in deserts, tundra or icesheet and will need to travel to find your first wood. It's not like Mgv6 which is for babies with everything you will ever experience within 500 nodes.
 

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Re: World size

by v-rob » Sat Nov 18, 2017 03:28

If you are running 0.4.13 or below, Mgv7 will not work with biomes, and many other things will not work. Just upgrade!
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:01

paramat wrote:
neko259 wrote:I've tried v7 a couple of times and it generated rocky and watery lands without a single tree in the view range

What version of MT? Mgv7 has had a complete set of biomes for 2 years now and has far richer biomes and far more interesting terrain than Mgv6. If you're referring to recent Mgv7 then yes occasionally you will be spawned in deserts, tundra or icesheet and will need to travel to find your first wood. It's not like Mgv6 which is for babies with everything you will ever experience within 500 nodes.

I've tried if first time somewhere aroud .14 and now at .16. Both times spawned in the rocky caverns and rivers nearby, nothing more.
 

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Re: World size

by rubenwardy » Sat Nov 18, 2017 19:25

neko259 wrote:I've tried if first time somewhere aroud .14 and now at .16. Both times spawned in the rocky caverns and rivers nearby, nothing more.


You need an up to date version of MTG. Or another game which provides biome definitions.

v7 is the default mapgen now, so most of the screenshots in the screenshot threads are likely to be using it
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 19:44

neko259 wrote:I've tried if first time somewhere aroud .14 and now at .16. Both times spawned in the rocky caverns and rivers nearby, nothing more.

To be clear, you mean bare grey stone terrain and water only?
Yes you need a version of MTG that matches the engine version, and make sure to select MTG for that mgv7 world.
 

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Re: World size

by Otter » Sat Nov 18, 2017 20:57

Seed numbers matter. You pick the wrong seed and life will be hard with a lot of the mapgens.
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 20:14

Otter wrote:Seed numbers matter. You pick the wrong seed and life will be hard with a lot of the mapgens.

I never pick the seed, just leave it empty.
Tried v7 again yesterday, this time I spawned in the water and after 10 mins of flowing in one direction I found some jungles.
BTW, I switched my server to v7 without wiping the map, and in server list it is shown as v6. It it a server list bug, or mapgen cannot be changed for existing map?
 

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Re: World size

by v-rob » Sun Nov 19, 2017 20:30

neko259 wrote:
Otter wrote:Seed numbers matter. You pick the wrong seed and life will be hard with a lot of the mapgens.

I never pick the seed, just leave it empty.
Tried v7 again yesterday, this time I spawned in the water and after 10 mins of flowing in one direction I found some jungles.
BTW, I switched my server to v7 without wiping the map, and in server list it is shown as v6. It it a server list bug, or mapgen cannot be changed for existing map?


You can't change mapgens. If it was possible, it would result in very ugly mapchunk boundaries, and many vertical cliffs extending all around the map.
 

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Re: World size

by hajo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 21:09

neko259 wrote:I never pick the seed, just leave it empty.

That just means the game will pick a random seed-value for you,
such as 1290151605222208390.

You can see the seed-number if you enable the debug-display with F5.
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:49

v-rob wrote:
neko259 wrote:
Otter wrote:Seed numbers matter. You pick the wrong seed and life will be hard with a lot of the mapgens.

I never pick the seed, just leave it empty.
Tried v7 again yesterday, this time I spawned in the water and after 10 mins of flowing in one direction I found some jungles.
BTW, I switched my server to v7 without wiping the map, and in server list it is shown as v6. It it a server list bug, or mapgen cannot be changed for existing map?


You can't change mapgens. If it was possible, it would result in very ugly mapchunk boundaries, and many vertical cliffs extending all around the map.

But I already have such ugly boundaries, possible because of mapgen changes in one version, or seed changes, or whatever. Anyway, why does the game decide it for me? If I don't want the boundaries, I just won't change the setting. It should not be just ignored.
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Tue Nov 21, 2017 00:07

You can change mapgens by editing map_meta.txt, inevitably that will cause disconinuous terrain.

You already had discontinuities in mgv6? Mgv6 has always been stable so perhaps a bug or you changed something n map_meta.txt.

> Anyway, why does the game decide it for me?

Decide what?

> If I don't want the boundaries, I just won't change the setting.

What setting?
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 08:08

>You already had discontinuities in mgv6?
I'm not sure if it is from v6. Was it used right from the start of 0.4, or evolved later? I know the server was created somewhere around the 0.4 development start, but I don't remember if I changed mapgens ever.
>Decide what?
Decide that I don't want to change the mapgen, even if I specifically stated so in the game config.
>What setting?
mg_name
Thanks for the map_meta, I will look into that.
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Fri Nov 24, 2017 00:05

> Decide that I don't want to change the mapgen

Ok. MT doesn't change the mapgen for a world, it's designed specifically to not do that, if it changed you did something wrong or caused it. The setting isn't ignored.
 

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Re: World size

by neko259 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 09:32

paramat wrote:> Decide that I don't want to change the mapgen

Ok. MT doesn't change the mapgen for a world, it's designed specifically to not do that, if it changed you did something wrong or caused it. The setting isn't ignored.

Well, I set the setting and nothing changes. For me, it means ignoring.
I know what you mean, but I don't think minetest.conf should do such "idiot check". It is a server configuration file, not some user gui where you can accidantally tick the check mark. If I changed "v6" to "v7", that means I did it intentionally.
But if the developers think there were too many mistake cases here, I suppose they can add something like "force_mapgen_change" setting that would confirm I set it intentionally.
 

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Re: World size

by paramat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 03:27

> Well, I set the setting and nothing changes. For me, it means ignoring.

Ok i misunderstood. 'mg_name' is stored in the world's 'map_meta.txt' file on world creation, this is essential so that the mapgen for that world always stays the same. Changing 'mg_name' in .conf is therefore ignored for existing worlds, the setting is only used when creating a new world.

If you want to change the mapgen for a world edit the 'map_meta.txt' file in the world folder.
 

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Re: World size

by sorcerykid » Fri Dec 01, 2017 06:00

Sadly, it's possible to get discontinuous terrain in mgv7 simply by installing a newer version of Minetest without modifying map_meta.txt. Upgrading from 0.4.13 to 0.4.14, for example, will cause mapchunk boundary issues even when using the same map seed. This was a well known issue on servers like just test, particularly since lag would run his "map unexplore" script, resulting in awkward cliffs and valleys around existing builds since the mgv7 algorithm had been mysteriously updated with every successive release of the engine.

The only guaranteed way to ensure map integrity with mgv7 is to never upgrade.
 

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