OldCoder wants to trademark “Minetest”

[sorcerykid]

Fair points. But I think any minimal loses there might be following a name change are sure to be greatly offset due to the long-term gains in new users. And moreover, a person cannot register a trademark for the sole purpose of interfering with someone else's existing use of the same trademark.

The existing minetest.net domain name could easily redirect to a different site with the new name. Suffice it to say, the longer that "Minetest" continues to be associated with this project, the more difficult it will be to ever change it. Do we really want to be stuck with this name indefinitely? Is there not some benefit to strategic branding? I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

[Shara]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of a better name, but getting people to settle on one has so far been impossible, and I think these are not the best circumstances under which to do it either way.

[solars]

Has anyody asked at the trademark offices, if there is a registration for Minetest pending?
I have researched for Germany at the Website of the "Deutsches Patent- und Markenamt". There is no trademark for Minetest registered.
How is it in your countries?

If there is a trademark pending, we can object.

I think, Minetest is a unregistered Trademark of Celeron55 in the moment, if I'm not mistaken.

An other thing: OldCoder had copied this forum. Normally, I see no problem in copying a forum like it archive.org does. But OldCoder does, as it is his own forum. And this is not OK.
And there, I would ask: How has he get the content. Was he an administrator at this board?

[TumeniNodes]

Let me tell you how "reasonable" old coder (robert kiraly aka robert crowley) is

After a couple of these spam messages, I was tired of it. I have a minor child who is a member, and I really don't feel like him having to read all this BS.
I have also referred to friends and family, and acquaintances for their children, as well as a couple of schools.

After one of the mass pms I mssg back stating I would like him to cease and desist from sending (me at least) any further spam mssg full of libel and defamation.
I wrote: "I gave you fair warning to cease and desist. The legal way it is then. You're not as legally clever as you believe yourself to be" (meaning I would get in touch with my atty to see if he can write up a legit cease and desist letter) which he is happy to do but he wants to wait to see how far this continues.

The response was this

And you, for your part, aren't clever at all.

In 2012, I fought some of the most powerful attorneys in Silicon Valley for a year. I won. There was not even a settlement backed by Court Orders. The Court just wanted the cases gone.

Son, I've dealt with half a dozen attorneys since then. I like to tell them that they are a nutritious part of a good breakfast.

Read the letter that I sent you carefully. Under no circumstances will I ever cease fighting for what is right.

You belong to me, now.

Then he used info, which I have always been fine with having publicly available..., then then probably did a Google search, which would bring up sites such as Spokeo, etc.
He then took what random, no big deal info he could find on me, and then posted as much about me as he could on his website... and has now accused me of being involved in child pornography.

This was the title of this last pm he sent me, when he did this latest mass spam pm:
"Paul ! Special Greetings to Child Porn Worker Paul LeBlanc"

He has threatened to contact anyone i may know and ask them why I am a child pornographer and support it.
Just a note, my feelings toward people who cause children harm, I could not possibly type her as it is extremely graphic, let's just say it would end with them being dumped in the ocean.

So now, with his false accusations of me, I have been asked by several people who are acquaintances regarding this, and my son (who is diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression) has seen this and went into a panic attack and came close to needing to go to hospital (his Dr was on the phone with us)

So, I will state that I may now have reason to carry on and seek some legal recourse.

robert kiraly, loves to assume he is fine harassing people this way under two areas... The free use act, and the "privilege" defense http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civ ... ation.html

Unfortunately for him..., his actions are not covered under either, no matter how many times he says "for legitimate and reasonable purposes" and his favorite phrase, "shall I demonstrate?"

He also seems to fancy himself as another Dr Suess (which he most definitely is not)

He also seems to believe he has telekinetic powers or something (according to his latest ramble)

This guy will attack and harass anyone who does not simply agree with him 100% and give him what he wants. He is an angry child, and in the throws of a temper tantrum.

I have been involved with several opensource projects since @ 2006, and I have seen some harsh arguments... but I have yet to ever witness the sort of behavior coming from him.
He is off his rocker..., literally, as far as I am concerned.

He seems to feel he is some all powerful entity who can destroy any attorney, which I now know of a couple who are eager to take that challenge once enough is built up.
Even they, and others i have contacted regarding this, have all stated "there is something terribly wrong with this person"

He is just a miserable, extremely angry, bitter, malicious, and vindictive individual.
He has serious family issues (they all hate him) I wonder why... He will always use his "go to" that it is because of his "disability" yet I believe it is due to his amazing personality, in my opinion.

He is angry that the dev team asked him to leave.
Now he wants full blown revenge, and will stop at nothing to get it.
And over the course, he has become more and more psychotic on his path, and is making mistakes.

His threats, can be considered cause for alarm, the way he goes on and the way he states his threats, and things he has done in the past... one could surely feel concern for their safety and well being.... after all, other people with similar behavior have gone to great extent to get revenge... people who end up on the news.

He also seems to enjoy boasting about his prowess as a web/pc genius... and how he (I guess, doxes people?)

As far as I am concerned, "if" there is any truth behind any of his child pornography accusations, then his issues with them should be directed at THEM, not just anyone who comes along and disagrees with him (which is what he is doing) Kind of on the level of how everyone is on this craze of calling everyone a "nazi"... whatever.

It is funny how he states "You belong to me now"... when in truth, he belongs to those of his family, who he has had issues with... because what ever happened in all of that, has surely taken over his entire being... and he is now obsessed with revenge...and attacking any and everyone who comes into his path.

So, what does he want??? He wants everyone to roll over and simply "give" him everything related to Minetest... and to announce him the official owner... nothing less will please him.

If you do go to his site, and actually read through everything..., and follow other links etc..., if you have a sound mind you will see red flags everywhere.
A friend who is a psychiatrist, has already seen so much, they have expressed to me that there is a lot which people in some positions would definitely red flag and be concerned with.

In short (not really, but all this was important to say), he is definitely someone that anyone, who does not agree with him 100%, and give him everything he demands... will be added to his growing list of those being accused of child pornography, etc..
Does this sound like someone people should try to "forgive" or "make amends with"?
Nah. This is someone who should be held accountable for his harassment, and cyber bullying. (and this is exactly what he does) and he does it while hiding behind his "disability".
People need to start getting together and discussing a course of action, either individually, or as a group.



Ignoring him, will not make him go away..., he will never stop..., he has no life, and he is obsessed with revenge.

[rubenwardy]

Has anyody asked at the trademark offices, if there is a registration for Minetest pending?
I have researched for Germany at the Website of the "Deutsches Patent- und Markenamt". There is no trademark for Minetest registered.
How is it in your countries?

If there is a trademark pending, we can object.

No, he has not filed yet. This topic should be called

Code: Select all

OldCoder threatens to trademark "Minetest"

An other thing: OldCoder had copied this forum. Normally, I see no problem in copying a forum like it archive.org does. But OldCoder does, as it is his own forum. And this is not OK.
And there, I would ask: How has he get the content. Was he an administrator at this board?

There was a public but unadvertised backup mechanism that OldCoder had access to. It didn't have any private information such as emails, passwords, or IPs.

[u19503]

The core devs should just make a pull for it so poeple can vote
Whichever name gets the most votes wins

And gets chosen

[rubenwardy]

The core devs should just make a pull for it so poeple can vote
Whichever name gets the most votes wins

And gets chosen

The core devs can't do this, only celeron55 can, and he won't. Also, this is very offtopic and irrelevant, we're not going to change our name over this.

OldCoder is literally the worse thing to ever happen to Minetest, and not because he threatens to trademark it.

[Gael de Sailly]

Finally, do you think someone can get a trademark on Minetest? I have no opinion on it simply because I don't know anything about legal matters.

If yes, that's what Shara pointed out, if the name of the game is changed to escape the trademark, we will see a loss of players.

But even if no, just think about it, the worse thing to do is to change the name. Not only this will less interest new players because the new name will have fewer "history" and past, and so doesn't evoke anything, but also this gives OldCoder or other people a huge opportunity to fork the game for their own with the name "Minetest" so that people that have not followed closely these events will think it's the new version of the same game, and will use without their knowing an insane game version directly managed by dubious people. And maybe in that situation they can get the trademark more easily.

[solars]

There was a public but unadvertised backup mechanism that OldCoder had access to. It didn't have any private information such as emails, passwords, or IPs.

Thats good to hear. :)

Finally, do you think someone can get a trademark on Minetest?

Yes. But it would be very difficult for software, since Minetest uses this name already. So it's very easy to object a trademark of Minetest, if it is not from Celeron55.

A trademark Minetest for other things like washing powder or mining equipment will be easy and I think, no problem for us. :D

So is in Switzerland a trademark for Linux given for washing powder: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_(Waschmittel)
This was no problem, since Linux was used for computer software and not for washing powder.

[sorcerykid]

Much of this speculation and fear-mongering. It is unlikely his application for registration will even be accepted, moreless approved.

As for forking Minetest and calling it "Minetest", afaik he has been doing that for some time already.

[Gael de Sailly]

As for forking Minetest and calling it "Minetest", afaik he has been doing that for some time already.

Yes but this is not a major threat, I think, as long as the real "Minetest" exists, even if it's already annoying. So changing the name in that circumstances is heavily dangerous, since the name can freely be reused by anyone, and not only for washing powder.

[u19503]

You guys know what let's just stop talking about it, everything has been said already
I know oldcoder is looking at this topic and he's probably enjoying the fear that he has created what if we just stopped talking about it :)

[GreenXenith]

Alright.

Y'all may know I was one of the targets of the latest mass-PM from OldCoder, but I am not as affected as other people probably.

My first name is public on my GitHub bio, and it's obvious I love Blender. He threatens to find my location, but he can't because my computer somehow masks itself so geolocating and IP searching find a different city. No idea why, but hey. So, i'm not really scared of him.

So, call me stalker, I know everything about this guy. Full name, phone numbers, email addresses, exact locations, age, everything. Google tells all.

I discovered something.

He is a psychopath.

Read up. [link removed]
Need I say more? (seriously, click the link, read.)
A simple Google search of his name should get you some results. He has a website other than minetest.org.

This is the kind of guy that belongs in an insane asylum or prison.
Why is he still trolling the internet?

This is a topic of serious concern, and cannot, I repeat CANNOT be left alone.

[Shara]

toby, I don't see much fear, mostly just a discussion. And it's public, so he may or may not be looking, and that's fine either way.

Edit: Can we please avoid insults as much as possible? That's not what this thread is about.

[ShadMOrdre]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Don't care.

Truth is, in the good ok USA, telling ANYONE ANYTHING that is untruthful about someone that causes harm to that individual is slander, a criminal offense. Posting online, calling up your acquaintances to spread malicious lies, or ANY other menacing behavior is called harassment, and charges can be pursued by any person suffering these offenses. Simply contact the sheriff's deptartment of the county in which this person lives and press charges.

This is outside the domain of core devs, forum moderators, and even Celeron55. Their responsibility is to the users of this software and the users of this forum, and to protect said users from this abuse. Celeron55 NEEDS to protect his own interest and thus ours by PROACTIVELY taking steps to end this. To continue to ignore this issue speaks negatively to his character. Sorry to have to spell that out.

On another note, while my mods have to abide by certain licensing, my public comments on THIS forum are only allowed on http://www.minetest.net. Usage on a forum where I am banned from even registering is a violation of the following:

Permission to use my comments as posted on forums.minetest.net is hereby DENIED to minetest.org and the person identified in this thread as Oldcoder, and any and all persons and organizations affiliated with said individual, without prior payment and permission of me. My comments on http://www.minetest.net forums are publicly available on said forums and if you want to read them you must do so at the aforementioned location. My comments and postings are not allowed to be retransmitted by any other means, except for use to support Celeron55 and his legitimate claims to the Minetest software and name.

Any questions, see above. Comments welcome. ALL other issues with this post can see me in court. Good luck.

SHAD MORDRE

[duane]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Don't care.

Truth is, in the good ok USA, telling ANYONE ANYTHING that is untruthful about someone that causes harm to that individual is slander, a criminal offense.

Celeron55 NEEDS to protect his own interest and thus ours by PROACTIVELY taking steps to end this.

Permission to use my comments as posted on forums.minetest.net is hereby DENIED

Ok, I'm not trying to be short with you ShadMOrdre, but you might want to check your facts here -- you're starting to sound as hyperbolic as your target. Slander refers to speech, what you're thinking of is libel, and it's a fair bit more complicated than you're making it out to be. (Not that it matters, because no one is likely to bring OldCoder to court.)

Also, putting any sort of copyright clause in your posts is likely to be pointless. The terms you agree to when you sign up to a service trump anything you say after that, and as I understand it, courts will tend to consider the actual publisher to be the people running the web site, for copyright purposes. If the web site specifically says you hold the copyright, then you're already protected. And, again, it doesn't matter unless someone is serious enough to go to court.

And both of those issues are off-topic, for what it's worth.

Also, I could easily understand why the developers wouldn't take the trademark issue seriously. I'm not convinced that OldCoder is capable of doing anything except creating long diatribes that I honestly thought were randomly generated when I first saw them.

However, this is an interesting discussion. : )

[ShadMOrdre]

Just for clarification:

I stand corrected on slander /libel . And is civil not criminal issue

Harassment of users, as mentioned above, can be criminal in nature.

I can't agree to ToS for a site that bans me from singing up....minetest.org

Minetest.net ToS does not state anything about minetest.org.

Exception to my copyright: Notice was given to PROMOTE Celeron55 and thus minetest.net.

And while this thread, the threat it presents in light of other users claims, is no joke, I stand by my statements regarding use of my public comments by a website that promotes the claims made by Oldjoke and his statements regarding members of this comunity. I, and others here really don't want to be associated with such garbage. Duane, you should see my comment for what it really represents, protection for this community. Some of us might have something to lose.

By the way, thanks for your work on valleys, it is my fave mg.

[paramat]

EDIT: Nevermind, wasn't thinking clearly.

[Vapalus]

Isn't he US American?
Is "defamation" a legal issues in this country?
Because what he does is cyber-bullying.

[Shara]

paramat, I will somewhat disagree. If no one here says anything or is allowed to comment, then the only one getting a voice on the subject is OldCoder, and he will continue to do his best to contact people. It allows people to believe the entire team is ignoring the issue, and encourages some to believe the team doesn't care and has not attempted to be reasonable.

With that said, I caution people to be thoughtful and to stay on topic. The thread should be about the trademark issue, and not used to insult or theorise about his (or anyone's) mental health.

[Vapalus]

I‘d have issues with closing this topic, too, for the fact that someone told me the whole team is pedophile without any explanation. Actually, there should be a public announcement.

[azekill_DIABLO]

Wow.

I do not believe this was a nice thing to say, at least Toby has the 'balls' to simply talk to OC. Geesh, what is this forum, a bad re-run of One Life to Live? Or is it General Hospital?

I Know It's Not entirely My Fault but have Something to do it
It's sad I shouldn't have done it

I wasn't able to sleep yesterday couldn't stop thinking about it what I have put in motion :/

I don't know anymore I'm just hoping that everything will become alright

Don't care toby, it's not your fault. It's not your fault if a weirdo decides to trademark some stupid bad name. And i'm sure he will lose lotsa money.

[sorcerykid]

Now that you mention it, the fact that anyone would want to trademark a bad name like Minetest, means they must be desperate for attention. I wouldn't pay $1 for the rights to that name, even if someone handed it to me on a silver platter xD

[azekill_DIABLO]

+1 that's so true. OC might have a real good reason to do so. And money to lose.

[rubenwardy]

Now that you mention it, the fact that anyone would want to trademark a bad name like Minetest, means they must be desperate for attention. I wouldn't pay $1 for the rights to that name, even if someone handed it to me on a silver platter xD

It's not about the name; it's about hurting the community attached, causing confusion, and taking control.