Up!

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voxelproof
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Up!

by voxelproof » Mon Dec 18, 2017 23:15

Rules of The Climbing Game.

1. Damage must be enabled. Any use of the "fly" privilege after setting start and summit locations makes the game invalid/lost, with one exception:
2. Free move may be activated only to rescue character from fall damage and the movement direction then allowed is downwards only until player's character touches some surface (noclip is forbidden).
3. Player is not allowed to dig any terrain blocks (dirt, rocks) but may cut tree leaves to clear way. Both snow and ice may be dug freely.
4. Ascending vertical walls is made through placing iron slabs so as to make stair-like configuration, but the slabs cannot be adjacent neither by sides nor by edges. Slabs may be removed then (in fact it's necessary when you want to use the same way up and down).
5. Game begins with marking starting point at the mountain's foot ('camp') and the goal (usually a summit to climb up). After player's character is placed at the camp no free movement is allowed other than rescue descent.

This game is extracted from what the default game provides only, yet it is awesome. You'll discover why when you lose a few lives before finally making your way up and back to the base...

...because achieving the peak is only half a success. The game is won when and only when the player's character after mounting the rock safely returns to the starting point.

So - watch your steps and keep calm, for it's rarely a weekend stroll :)

EDIT: refinement of the rules.

Ad 3: since in real-life conditions ice in mountain glaciers is de facto a rock, it is not diggable and steel slabs may be attached to it. Slabs cannot be attached to tree trunks, leaves, snow nor sand. Sand is diggable. Please do not use waterfalls to gain altitude (unless you're a trout :)). A player cannot use trees to make climbing easier either. The only exception when a player is allowed to stand on a tree is after a fall or a 'safety descent'. Then he must leave it as quickly as possible.

Ad 4: A player is allowed to place only one slab each 'turn' - that is, the one on which he is going to make next jump (or stride). This is a necessary limitation to make the game roughly resembling real constraints of climbing and prevent from marking the trail in advance.

Ad 5: You can use free move downwards only when falling from a steel slab. You can use this kind of movement to speed up return.

EDIT 2:

Ad 3: The rule for placing steel slabs to put it simply is that a player's character is never allowed to stand on a slab that touches another steel slab, ether by side, edge nor corner. When there's no other possibility to make further advance up, you can place two adjacent slabs in order to obtain the floating one after removing the slab attached to the rock wall. However this may be done only as a preparation for the next step; you cannot apply this method to the slab your avatar is standing on.

This clarification allows player to traverse small overhangs.

EDIT 3: Finally, to complete the well balanced set of rules, each such 'floating' step may be placed using only exactly one "extra" facilitating slab (which is to be removed before jumping on the proper one). This mediate, then removed slab may be attached to the terrain only and never to an already existing climbing slab.

The above follows the general principle of minimax in game design (minimum rules, maximum gameplay).

EDIT 4: To widen the scope of accessible overhangs, the rule for placing steel slabs is updated so that it allows to put extra slabs connecting the next step to the rock whenever the distance between each of them and the rock above is equal or less than 2.

Those facilitating slabs may be placed when player's character stands in any place; however placing the usable slab which makes possible the next jump must be done when player's character stands on a slab from which the jump or stride is to be done.

Image
Jabberwocky Rock. Made after second try.

[Posted in "General Discussion' cause it doesn't imo qualify as a proper 'subgame']
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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Mon Dec 25, 2017 20:43

A few images depicting a beginners-grade climbing terrain, suitable for some training:


Image
Climber's Paradise

Smooth, vertical walls without overhangs and pillars are the easiest to climb up using the above rules. Nevertheless a player should be aware that appearances sometimes may be deceptive: performing hundreds of jumps makes a fall due to missing one's step highly likely.

Image
Preparing for the Next One

The most dangerous kind of jumping: round the corner. Check your mouse before trying this ;)

Image
Don't Look Down!

A key to the proper immersion. When 'fly' mode is deliberately and consequently avoided, the game environment becomes much more belivable and the virtual space and world features become perceived in quite different way than when playing in creative mode.
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Re: Up!

by pengnuin » Tue Dec 26, 2017 00:19

Heh, I like this. Might try it myself at some point.
Climbing competitions on servers sound like great events!
Lovely screenshots as well - some of this is really picturesque (is that how you spell it?).
 

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Re: Up!

by Gael de Sailly » Tue Dec 26, 2017 03:37

Where can I find the Climbing Game?
Just realize how bored we would be if the world was perfect.
 

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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Tue Dec 26, 2017 09:44

Gael de Sailly wrote:Where can I find the Climbing Game?


This is just an interpretation of a default Minetest Game. It's entirely up to you to follow these rules - maybe someone in the future will add 'buttons' enabling climbing this way, but for me it's fun already. After all, when you play classic board games all the rules are in player's mind only :)

So, you can play this 'game' in every mapgen except flat.
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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Tue Dec 26, 2017 09:45

pengnuin wrote:Heh, I like this. Might try it myself at some point.
Climbing competitions on servers sound like great events!
Lovely screenshots as well - some of this is really picturesque (is that how you spell it?).


Thank you :-)
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Crazy Bison Massif

by voxelproof » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:27

A few pics of "Crazy Bison", a remarkable terrain structure built by mg v7.

Image
General view. Climbing Bison's Head took about 2 hours due to multiple falls. Thankfully no loss of life.

Image
Front view of this formidable rock.

Image
Scaling "The Rifle" on Bison's back.
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by Gael de Sailly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 17:38

voxelproof wrote:A few pics of "Crazy Bison", a remarkable terrain structure built by mg v7.

What is the seed?

Something I propose: making a list of several interesting mountains with seed and position.

I begin with an impressive but quite easy one:

seed: 9053682054377397076
mapgen: valleys
positions: (0,200,0) → (240,278,0)

Image
You have to climb down in a canyon and climb up again up to an elevation of 278 (by the way it's the highest I've ever found).
If you find a good side of the mountain, you don't need any slab to reach the top.
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Re: Up!

by Gael de Sailly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 18:28

pengnuin wrote:Heh, I like this. Might try it myself at some point.
Climbing competitions on servers sound like great events!
Lovely screenshots as well - some of this is really picturesque (is that how you spell it?).

Yes, "picturesque" is well spelled :)

About climbing competitions, this is something very fun to play, we already did this on MinetestForFun server on March 11, 2016, using Meru.
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by hajo » Thu Dec 28, 2017 18:52

Gael de Sailly wrote:
voxelproof wrote:A few pics of "Crazy Bison", a remarkable terrain structure built by mg v7.

I propose: making a list of several interesting mountains with seed and position.

On the wiki, I created some pages to make a Map-Database.

It would be nice to have entries for impressive landscapes, climbing-tours etc.,
but I need to expand the layout for that.
 

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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by voxelproof » Thu Dec 28, 2017 19:17

Gael de Sailly wrote:
voxelproof wrote:A few pics of "Crazy Bison", a remarkable terrain structure built by mg v7.

What is the seed?


seed=3059254260796776691
coordinates of the "Rifle's" top:
X=-1186, Y=243.5, Z=-2250

Something I propose: making a list of several interesting mountains with seed and position.


Good idea. I was thinking about something like this. As for me I'm most interested in tall vertical walls with overhangs which can be most easily found in mg v7. I hope I'll find someday really challenging mountain of height well over 500.

I begin with an impressive but quite easy one:


Thanks for coordinates, going right now to have a look at it.

EDIT

General view of the massif:

Image

Although the discoverer holds traditionally the right to name newly discovered locations, it does so much resemble a gigantic stronghold that I couldn't resist naming it a "Mountain King's Castle" :)

Immense opportunities. Thanks.
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by voxelproof » Thu Dec 28, 2017 19:26

hajo wrote:
Gael de Sailly wrote:
voxelproof wrote:A few pics of "Crazy Bison", a remarkable terrain structure built by mg v7.

I propose: making a list of several interesting mountains with seed and position.

On the wiki, I created some pages to make a Map-Database.

It would be nice to have entries for impressive landscapes, climbing-tours etc.,
but I need to expand the layout for that.


Great idea. Making a public list of unusual natural structures and points of interest in Minetest would make extra incentive for exploration. Some weird mountains in v7 near pieces of excellent art, some montainous landscapes (not very often, sadly) strongly resemble real terrain, and some are of astounding beauty. Such 'discoveries' are certainly worth to be recorded in some way.
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by Gael de Sailly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 19:40

voxelproof wrote:Some weird mountains in v7 near pieces of excellent art, some montainous landscapes (not very often, sadly) strongly resemble real terrain, and some are of astounding beauty. Such 'discoveries' are certainly worth to be recorded in some way.

Take a look at carpathian mapgen, that will be in the next release (0.5.0). It's already available in the latest development version.
Its mountains are probably the best for climbing (but they are rare).

In v5 also the mountains are a big challenge to climb, even if they are not very realistic, I find they are beautiful.
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by voxelproof » Thu Dec 28, 2017 19:59

Gael de Sailly wrote:
voxelproof wrote:Some weird mountains in v7 near pieces of excellent art, some montainous landscapes (not very often, sadly) strongly resemble real terrain, and some are of astounding beauty. Such 'discoveries' are certainly worth to be recorded in some way.

Take a look at carpathian mapgen, that will be in the next release (0.5.0). It's already available in the latest development version.
Its mountains are probably the best for climbing (but they are rare).


I know carpathian from Stonecraft (it's a fork of Minetest). As far as the landscape itself is concerned it is not very convincing, but indeed provides much more good climbing trails than any other mapgen.

In v5 also the mountains are a big challenge to climb, even if they are not very realistic, I find they are beautiful.


Yes, however they're not very tall. I choose v5 for some landscaping projects rather than extreme sports ;)
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Re: Up!

by Gael de Sailly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 20:28

Also some Lua mapgens are good, like watershed, that we use on MinetestForFun. I struggled with the mountains for hours and hours to build roads, carved in the rock (I can't connect this evening to take screenshots…)
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Re: Crazy Bison Massif

by voxelproof » Thu Dec 28, 2017 21:17

Gael de Sailly wrote:
I begin with an impressive but quite easy one:

seed: 9053682054377397076
mapgen: valleys
positions: (0,200,0) → (240,278,0)


If you find a good side of the mountain, you don't need any slab to reach the top.


That's right. First I went to the south, but there the mountain is inaccessible without steel supports, then I circumvented the towering rocks to the north and finally found nice sandy slopes and made it to the top. Hooray! :-))
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Crazy Bison explored

by voxelproof » Sat Dec 30, 2017 19:18

The image below shows the aftermath of climbing activity in the aforementioned massif.

Image
Sadly, one alpinist lost during the escapade.
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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Sun Dec 31, 2017 15:36

CarlBishop wrote:Omg looks nice


Thanks. But the point is not how it looks after completing the climb. It's all about how one feels. Beware of addiction :)
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Re: Up!

by hajo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 16:03

CarlBishop wrote:Omg looks nice

We also need some entries in the map-database
for positions with good panorama-views.
 

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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:22

hajo wrote:
CarlBishop wrote:Omg looks nice

We also need some entries in the map-database
for positions with good panorama-views.


I have some interesting places on my explorer's list. However I'm not sure whether there is any verification system in the said database enabling prevention of worthless entries (e.g. when somebody reports barren flat desert, open sea or anything that is a pretty common, not a remarkable area).

I'm afraid that it is practically impossible to impose any widely accepted rules to assess this kind of characteristic because it refers to the sense of aesthetics, 'weirdness', 'unusuality' and these are very ambiguous features subject to very individual judge. And this makes such a database prone to corruption by information noise.

EDIT: I think that any record-breaking sites should be entered in the first place, regardlees of it's aesthetical faults or merits, i.e. really high mountains (250+), long rivers, deep or far-stretching canyons etc.
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Re: Up!

by azekill_DIABLO » Mon Jan 01, 2018 13:28

Some funny hole to climb out of!

Seed:
tokyo Mapgen: v7 Positions: Around x=-10 y=0 z=-15
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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Mon Jan 01, 2018 18:55

azekill_DIABLO wrote:Some funny hole to climb out of!

Seed:
tokyo Mapgen: v7 Positions: Around x=-10 y=0 z=-15


Interesting albeit technically trivial. However as a lanscape spot it's definitely worth recording in the database of remarkable places.

May I call it "Azekill's Diablo Pit"? Or perhaps you might prefer spanish name, "La sima del Diablo"?

Image
Top-down view of the site

Image
Looking upwards at the bottom

Image
Back to the surface

Thanks for the coordinates.

@EVERYBODY: if you ever find any really high and difficult non-floating mountain, massif or canyon, please let me know in this thread. Thanks in advance :))
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Re: Up!

by azekill_DIABLO » Mon Jan 01, 2018 19:36

let's call it 'Diablo's Pit' :D
I'm glad you like it!

---

for the (nearly)non-floating mountain: mapgen: V5; position: x=52 y=44 z=-256; seed: 12870150893472375920
Image

it touches ground in one place!
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Re: Up!

by voxelproof » Mon Jan 01, 2018 21:59

azekill_DIABLO wrote:let's call it 'Diablo's Pit' :D


ok

it touches ground in one place!


I'll check it. But before...
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