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Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 05:15
by Reedych
http://www.opennet.ru/opennews/art.shtml?num=48696
https://habr.com/post/413067/

Microsoft wants to buy Github, where Minetest repos are hosted. Look at my logic:

Microsoft buys Minecraft -> Microsoft buys Github -> Microsoft hates Minetest (because cannot buy it) -> Microsoft can ban "minetest" organisation.

So because of that I propose to move from Github to other services or self-hosted. What do you think about it?

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 08:12
by texmex
Like other tech oligarchy, the strategy is Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

They wouldn’t ban competing projects first thing, that would be incredibly stupid. They would try to keep the product continue to behave like before for some time but then slowly integrate it into the MS ecosystem. This will inevitably result in a shittier product over time, with possibly even more centralized position and with less interoperatibility with other products than before. In this stage it will become less and less comfortable for some projects, I immagine especially for ”free software” (as opposed to just ”open source”.)

People have completely forgotten the lessons learned from the Sourceforge debacle, which is why they will be surprised and indignant once again once this process picks up speed.

I like Gitlab (open source, selfhostable) but I like the Github interface more, so ideally Gogs/Gitea would be my candidate. Moving the repo is no problem but moving issues and PRs is a nightmare. (Perhaps a sign of Githubs own play at Embrace, Extend, Extinguish)

Edit: It’s happening.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 09:11
by Hamlet
Thanks for sharing this info; I will immediately move my repositories on another git host.
I suggest to add a poll to this thread, so that the Minetest developers can see what is the community's opinion.
The forums' profiles are tied to GitHub, as well as Content Database.

For those of you who don't feel like standing under the Microsoft's umbrella: https://alternativeto.net/software/github/

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:06
by texmex
Before everyone scatters to their own git islands and discoverability of repos falls apart completely I’d like to suggest that we try to unite around the same (free, safe) alternative. Some scenarios:

1. We all migrate to (the hosted version of) Gitlab in hope that the conditions their will suffice.
2. We migrate to another existing safe harbour git hosting.
3. We start hosting all Minetest projects on our own platform by installing Gitlab or Gitea on a server controlled by c55 and/or other core members, thus retaining all repos on the same platform. Repos by users not willing to migrate can simply be mirrored.

I’d favor #3: ”Mesehub”, git.minetest.net, for the sake of keeping the community together.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:19
by Hamlet
I've moved to GitLab, this is my repository https://gitlab.com/h4mlet
The GitHub repository will no longer be updated, but it will stay as it is for Minetest Forum's and Content Database's sake.

Needless to say, my vote goes to https://gitlab.com/


I'm currently on NotABug.org at https://notabug.org/Hamlet

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 13:17
by Reedych
Hamlet wrote:I've moved to GitLab, this is my repository https://gitlab.com/h4mlet
The GitHub repository will no longer be updated, but it will stay as it is for Minetest Forum's and Content Database's sake.

Needless to say, my vote goes to https://gitlab.com/

I though about making my private git server, but I found my account on gitlab and now it's importing some repos that contain something usable.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 14:52
by Andrey01
Really can Microsoft delete all Minetest repositories are stored on GitHub?But what for? Minetest repositiries are very many on GitHub and i doubt they will seek and delete each repo. And what is it going to buy this for?

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 15:10
by Reedych
Andrey01 wrote:Really can Microsoft delete all Minetest repositories are stored on GitHub?But what for? Minetest repositiries are very many on GitHub and i doubt they will seek and delete each repo. And what is it going to buy this for?

Из реп удалят майнтест и запихнут ссылки на minecraft.net. ^^
They will remove minetest and put links to minecraft.net in. ^^

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 15:37
by Reedych

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 15:39
by AccidentallyRhine
I used to be on GitLab primarily. But I switched to GitHub simply because all the Minetest repos were there. Ironically, GiHub gets bought out by malicious interests shortly after I switch *eye roll*.

Looks like I have to reopen a GitLab account. Who else?

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 15:54
by GreenDimond
I plan to stay on GitHub.
I don't see any problems.
As long as Microsoft doesn't screw with it (which I am 90% sure they won't), everything is fine.

Reedych wrote:
Andrey01 wrote:Really can Microsoft delete all Minetest repositories are stored on GitHub?But what for? Minetest repositiries are very many on GitHub and i doubt they will seek and delete each repo. And what is it going to buy this for?

Из реп удалят майнтест и запихнут ссылки на minecraft.net. ^^
They will remove minetest and put links to minecraft.net in. ^^

Wrong. That would be against their own policies. They can't just "remove minetest". It doesn't work that way. Minetest is not a clone of Minecraft, and does not infringe on copyrights held by Microsoft on Minecraft. If they have to remove Minetest, they have to remove literally every other voxel game that exists on GitHub (and the internet..).

The whole point is, there is seriously nothing wrong with Microsoft owning GitHub other than the pure fact that this is Microsoft. You can hate them or love them, GitHub is still GitHub. As long as they don't f*** with how it's run, everyone is fine. People are gust bolting to other Git hosters because the think it's "the end of GitHub - open-source is doomed.".

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 16:02
by AccidentallyRhine
Celeron55 has stated:


Prevention is always easier than cure but it seems the ship will remain in port for now. If past MS buyouts are any indication, most users will not notice any significant changes however there will be a gradual and steady erosion of the quality, interoperability, and functionality of anything that isn't ultimately tied to some form of vendor lock in.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 16:03
by TumeniNodes
GreenDimond wrote:The whole point is, there is seriously nothing wrong with Microsoft owning GitHub other than the pure fact that this is Microsoft.


Well, they don't actually have a great track record.
Over the years they either mess up how things are done, how they work, and/or how they look..., or just simply destroy it. Basically, they have a knack of ruining everything they touch, one way or another.
But that is only due to their business model which is, to make as much money from every tiniest feature they can.

However, I will remain with github until such behavoir appears, and begins to have a negative impact.
I am the sort who likes to give the benefit of doubt before I make a decision.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 16:35
by Linuxdirk

So it’s not “if” but only “when”.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 18:54
by h-v-smacker
texmex wrote: I’d favor #3: ”Mesehub”, git.minetest.net, for the sake of keeping the community together.


Running a self-hosted Gitlab instance (or any other git interface, provided that it itself is free software — unlike github) would seem to be the most optimal solution: not depending on 3rd party, and keeping all the mods in one place. The only problem I see is that there will undoubtedly be some prerequisites for entry, and that might prove to be a barrier for newcomers. E.g. if you'd need to show a working minetest mod to make an account...

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 19:04
by Festus1965
I just read the news, and found this Posting, getting same thinking about, never trust Mircosoft since I had to work with it in my job.
Our free database-system has also been captured from another big gamer, and not by getting better, no no, by getting worse, but as a view people got a lot of money and good positions in that company.

MY opinion, is
* have to prepare a new base for the code on a new server, BEFORE it is too late.
* and also copy and safe most of the code needed for MT and keep working without "fears".

So, just make a own "github" for all the MT code ? before the next platform is also gone, or bought ...


and the most easy is

gitlab.minetest.net,
all together where it belongs

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 21:13
by gpcf
I agree with the idea of building a new gitlab/gitea/gogs whatever free software hosting instance for minetest. It's kind of foolish to move everything to gitlab.com, because then we'll have the same problem over again: One huge "Too big to fail" code hosting site. I am also running my own private git server since I've always been reluctant to feed github too much.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 21:44
by csirolli
I also agree with hosting our own local "GitHub". MeseHub ain't a bad name for it.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 23:30
by v-rob
I like the idea of our own git, but I don't think c55 gets enough money in donations to host minetest.net as it is.

But personally, I'll stay with GitHub until the worst happens. We need to stay away from fragmentation to random git sites. We should stick together.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 01:12
by Festus1965
What does it need ?
Hardware,
* just some much of storage for all the code ?

Software,
* Linux, x, and
* website, + php, so the
* a "github" like

I am sure that doesn't need much speed in CPU or grafic,

a used
* HP or Dell E5800, 2 GB Ram, and 250 GB HDD I get for 2000 Baht, mean about 50 Euro, just put some more used RAM and a 1 TB HDD in ...,
* I5-3570, 4 GB Ram, 500 GB HDD 6000 Baht, so means 150 Euro, plus 4 more RAM ?, and sure a HDD
* even i7-477 are sold there for 10.000 Baht (like I have my MT Server)

give us all a hint, that maybe someone has the time.

Electric is cheap here, I pay 4.5 Baht each kw/h - that is the part maybe should get together of the community, or telling that my room with router, 3 wifi, 4 raspi, the MT server 24/7, my gamepc 10h a day, 3 more AIO PC, about 4 hours a daysome aircon makes 450 kw/h so about 2025 Baht a Month or 55 Euro,
so a normal server maybe takes another 15 Euro/month more

and as I have some rooms behind, maybe then i build up a read server room what gets me not so hot here, haha

As I see the worth of keeping MT up, it maybe an offer, but I need "professional help" building it up.

connected on a 24h reset fiber 50 down and 20 MB up, in Thailand, Chiang Mai

with the biggest problem, energies down often in Thunderstorm time of Mai, the kind of government, and what more ... yes: hot - in my room mainly 32 degrees C

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 03:11
by BBmine
I too agree that we should have an official Minetest git. I don't think we should have different mods hosted on different services.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 03:37
by Byakuren
I think Minetest's similarity to Minecraft actually works in Minetest's favor, as removing Minetest would implicate antitrust law.

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 04:18
by texmex
Byakuren wrote:I think Minetest's similarity to Minecraft actually works in Minetest's favor, as removing Minetest would implicate antitrust law.

Yes, we would simply have to put our best lawyers on it ;)

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 05:16
by Linuxdirk
h-v-smacker wrote:Running a self-hosted Gitlab instance (or any other git interface, provided that it itself is free software — unlike github) would seem to be the most optimal solution: not depending on 3rd party, and keeping all the mods in one place.

Oh god, imagine how awesome that would be!

Re: Emigrate from Github?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 08:47
by texmex
Linuxdirk wrote:
h-v-smacker wrote:Running a self-hosted Gitlab instance (or any other git interface, provided that it itself is free software — unlike github) would seem to be the most optimal solution: not depending on 3rd party, and keeping all the mods in one place.

Oh god, imagine how awesome that would be!

Deploying the service takes 10 minutes. Getting it accepted as official and especially convincing all modders to coalesce around it is the hard part. Gogs/Gitea and probably Gitlab has a mirror feature repo so perhaps those unwilling can have their repos mirrored to the official MT git service.