Question about writing server rules

[Piezo_]

I'm designing the rules for my server, and I ran into an issue deciding whether to

A: Age-restrict the server to users over the age of 18, and allow pretty much any content so long as it isn't breaking any laws.
B: Allow anyone to join, but have strict rules regarding hateful or obscene content.

Which option would be the safest, legally, assuming that there is a small chance of ...

in scenario A, someone under the age of 18 ignoring the age-restriction notice and agreeing to the terms of service despite having no right to do so, or...
in scenario B, someone creating offensive content in violation of the rules?

[Linuxdirk]

In both cases you have to take countermeasures. In situation A you have to have users confirm that they are over the age of 18. In situation B you have to make sure the content is not created.

A is easier. Use A.

[Piezo_]

A is easier. Use A.

I have already implemented A on my server via a prompt (Which is basically a very short EULA), so no effort will be needed. I'll keep watching this thread for a while, though, to see what other admins have to say.

[Gael de Sailly]

A is maybe not that easy to enforce that you may think. Most of players who will try to join will be tablet players who are mostly kids, and not all of them will read the age requirement, or even if they read it, will not take it into account. I just remember as an example that when I was 12-13, many of the people of my age were already playing Call of Duty.

But why this? Is there something particular in your server that make you enforce a 18+ years requirement?
A server description with a 18+ requirement would be really fishy, I would imagine an "adult game" with graphically "adult content" (I think you know what I mean) and although I'm over 18 in age, it's not something I'm particularly interested in.
I think you would lose many of your potential players, even some above 18.

If your server has nothing offensive by its nature towards minors, banning them just to make rules easier to enforce is cowardly and discriminatory.

[Piezo_]

But why this? Is there something particular in your server that make you enforce a 18+ years requirement?
A server description with a 18+ requirement would be really fishy, I would imagine an "adult game" with graphically "adult content" (I think you know what I mean) and although I'm over 18 in age, it's not something I'm particularly interested in.
I think you would lose many of your potential players, even some above 18.

If your server has nothing offensive by its nature towards minors, banning them just to make rules easier to enforce is cowardly and discriminatory.

Initially, I didn't want to censor content at all, which meant the age restriction was necessary. (To my knowledge, no one joined who would have created any objectionable content during this stage) After a while of thinking, I've decided I might disallow hateful or obscene content, and then eventually lift the age restriction once my server has enough moderators to effectively enforce this rule.

What bothers me, however, is that mod content, such as certain flags that could possibly be made with the banners mod, and "hemp" from the farming plus mod might have to be removed or censored to make the server more kid-friendly, which is a loss in my opinion.

I'm honestly on the edge as to what route I want to take.

[Stix]

Put a disclaimer that says some of the content in chat might be only suitable for players of ages 18 and higher, and so if someone who joins is offended by the chat, its their fault. Also whats so bad about hemp?

[Piezo_]

Put a disclaimer that says some of the content in chat might be only suitable for players of ages 18 and higher, and so if someone who joins is offended by the chat, its their fault.

That's not how the law works.

[Hybrid Dog]

There're not much mods with 18+ content.


I think that you cannot simply add a 18+ confirmation because many young players do not speak English.

[Piezo_]

image

What am I even looking at?

I think that you cannot simply add a 18+ confirmation because many young players do not speak English.

Currently, I only give out the IP to those who specifically ask, and my confirmation mechanism automatically kicks people after 25 seconds if they don't confirm, so I'm not so worried.

Regardless, as I've stated, the restriction will be lifted once I have enough moderators.

[sofar]

It would be likely better to use something like mt2fa to confirm the identity of a player, which requires an actual email address for the player. It wouldn't exactly match the age requirement of course, but you could expect that most kids don't have an email address. I'm not saying mt2fa is ideal just yet, though

[sorcerykid]

If you are a small-scale server operator, then you really needn't worry about legal repercussions of content moderation (I mean unless you are distributing virtual pornography, that's a completely story). I'd be more concerned about the moral implications and your personal interest in maintaining a modicum of decency in the case of a family-friendly server, or else lack thereof in the case of a chaos server.

To my knowledge foul language, violence, and other adult-themes in computer games are still entirely self-regulated within the gaming industry. And the odds of a single Minetest server being shutdown for inappropriate content seems extremely unlikely. I don't even think it has happened before.

Still, I admire your due diligence to protect minors from potential abuse. Just remember that no matter how many safeguards you put into place, there will always be unscrupulous players intent on subverting the rules. Therefore I think, you should carefully consider exactly what type of audience you want to cater to, and then develop a suitable gameplay environment around that audience while factoring in the need for volunteer staff (as well as their availability) to achieve those objectives There are also a number of mods that can aid in automated moderation and administration tasks. Good luck!

[Linuxdirk]

I'm not saying mt2fa is ideal just yet, though

Is it GDPR compliant at least?

[sofar]

I'm not saying mt2fa is ideal just yet, though

Is it GDPR compliant at least?

Don't ask me, Ask a lawyer. Seriously.

It's a very interesting topic, of course. I'm definitely not a lawyer, and very happy that I'm not one. I can make a few brief statements that are not a legal interpretation of course. First of all, mt2fa only stores the email address of the person, and providing it is voluntary. I suppose we can make this an explicit consent message, which would be the right thing to do. From a service perspective, from what I can understand, mt2fa works entirely within the gdpr and since the email is critical to the service, since it is the key part of mt2fa, there is nothing wrong with using it as such.

From a purely "does it even apply" perspective, the GDPR does not seem to even apply, since the mt2fa service isn't operated by an actual organization or company. One could argue that, because the operator is me, a private person, the GDPR doesn't apply at all. This doesn't mean I don't want to avoid responsibility, though, because mt2fa actually was designed in partial to do something about anonymous players while letting them remain effectively anonymous to servers, in a way.

As for "forgetting" about people, this is a very interesting topic and I'm inclined to implement this. It would effectively make the player unable to use existing accounts on existing servers if mt2fa was enabled and required for those accounts, and I would implement it in a way that servers would delete the user account on the minetest servers that are linked, too, which would grant players a significant right that they do not have right now.

I've been more and more interested in putting significant work in mt2fa, maybe I'll take the holidays to implement some of these things.

Sorry for offtopic in this thread :). I'll post this text in the mt2fa thread as well. Please let's continue the discussion over there!

[TumeniNodes]

but you could expect that most kids don't have an email address.

Correct, they likely do not have 'one' but rather several.
I know, you know this to be the case in the reality of today.

I remember a couple years ago, when my cousin called me in shock, finding out his 9yo had a handful of facebook pages, linked to just as many emails, and the stuff his nieces were doing on the web at 12 and 13 I will not even get into.

These are the well known risks of owning a server. You are either the type who is able to handle it all on a mental level, or you are not. (hint): you have to really, really like kids, 'a lot' and able to accept they are kids.
Sometimes you will have to be more concerned about creepy 'adults', and young adults, and their behavior compared to younger kids.

These kids got us licked... the sooner you face the fact the easier it will be.
Communicate with other server owners who have been at it for a while, they will be one of your best resources for information and tips.

IMHO keeping the rules as simple, straight forward, and setting them to match basic rules of IRL society is the best option, try to be as fair as possible, and somewhat lenient but not to the point of being a push-over.
There is no way in hell, you're ever going to be able to completely enforce an 18+ rule, even companies which pay hefty sums to control this situation have a hard time with it.
All you can do is state the rule and "if" a user is caught under age, not even sure what you can do about it aside from a ban... which they will likely get around one way or another... or they will simply move on.

Over thinking and over-stressing over it all is futile. You're covered by simply stating the rules..., the rest is in the hands of all the wonderful and fully attentive parents of the world... (good luck)

[Linuxdirk]

but you could expect that most kids don't have an email address.

Correct, they likely do not have 'one' but rather several.

Actually I wonder if they know if they even have any. The reality is Snapchat and Instagram. Both can register with Facebook, Facebook app allows using your Google account as base for registering (at least last time I tried the app). And Google basically guides you through getting an account + mail address when first turning on your Android smartphone and Android has 85 percent market share.

I don’t know what’s the latest fad nowadays but I’m pretty sure it’s not “Hey, write me an e-mail!”.

[Piezo_]

Over thinking and over-stressing over it all is futile. You're covered by simply stating the rules..., the rest is in the hands of all the wonderful and fully attentive parents of the world... (good luck)

What about the "hemp" in farming_redo, and other things buried somewhere in my pile of mods? Should I be worried, and do I need to go through all of the mods on my server to make sure everything's 100% kid-friendly?

[sofar]

What about the "hemp" in farming_plus, and other things buried somewhere in my pile of mods? Should I be worried, and do I need to go through all of the mods on my server to make sure everything's 100% kid-friendly?

You should also take out swords. And TNT. I would strongly also recommend making the game as dull as possible such that any actual kids joining by accident quickly is bored and leaves.

In all seriousness, though, hemp is legal in many countries and it's historically widely used, even in places where it currently is banned. I would suggest you not worry about it.

[Mantar]

FYI you can't smoke rope hemp. I mean you can, but you'll probably just get a headache. It's been selectively bred for fibrous quality, not THC content.

[Linuxdirk]

What about the "hemp" in farming_redo

I'm a little disconnected with the farming_redo development, but last time I checked hemp wasn't used for any things that are illegal in some jurisdictions. Hemp itself is not illegal.