Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

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Otter
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Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by Otter » Post

Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters
I will try to keep this brief, since I could go for days on the subject. To put it simply and bluntly I think that there is a huge hole in feel and depth because there is such a generic quality to characters in the game.

In minetest there are mods that allow for some advancement. I think this is a good direction but what I have seen is only a start. On most servers, if we take away a characters objects we take away everything.

I am not a fan of character classes or races so in way I love the blank slate that a Minetest character has.
That said, it probably goes too far and leaves an empty quality to character in Minetest. We have no back story. Our house will probably have more personality than our character does.

When chatting, we are, for the most part, ourselves and not our personas. In general our personality is our own with a few exaggerations and exceptions. We may be more generous than we could afford to be in life. We may be more violent. If we are rude and thoughtless, it is inevitable that that will be our character but that is true in all RPG systems. If we are a bit better behaved it is possible that we could role play a bit, but in general we play ourselves only more violent and with a twist.

Our skins are a chaotic mix of Luca Libre masks (Latin American wrestling) that will be covered by armor. Our armor will mostly tell people how advanced we are. Apart from that characters for the most part lack distinction.

While saying this, and believing it to be a flaw, there is a strong exception to this that is not as common in other games. Explorers will tend to have the advantage of knowing where things are. Miners will have more resources and be able to obtain what they need quicker. Builders will end up knowing how to use their resources more effectively. A player who spends their time chatting will often be able to get help faster than anyone else. There are advantages to playing high risk or by playing with high risk avoidance. These are definite character qualities. So there are advantages to styles of play, but in most cases this distinction in personality of character is still going to be a players distinction much more than the character being played.

Role play on Minetest servers is for the most part missing except for some very embarrassing role play that I don't want to discuss.
That lack of character sadly means that there is a dimension missing from most servers. I have no great solutions for this issue. I think this is a rather big issue that should be addressed but apart from having a way for characters to earn an ability like running faster, jumping higher or being able to take more damage I don't have any great ideas on how to solve this. Right now the way we obtain these abilities in game is by getting better armor. The lack of role play may be a cultural thing and rewards for in character play might encourage players to add more depth to the game. Sadly that is about all I can offer in the way of a possible solution to this.

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Linuxdirk
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Re: Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by Linuxdirk » Post

Otter wrote:Our house will probably have more personality than our character does.
… which is absolutely fine since 80-90 percent of everyday playing is about building stuff. Mining becomes a chore after some time on most servers.
Otter wrote:Role play on Minetest servers is for the most part missing […]
Minetest isn’t the number one title that comes in mind when thinking of role-playing games. Heck, even most MMORPGs are not populated by role players.

Role-playing unfortunately is pretty much dead except the “role playing game” genre which usually translates to some sort of medieval setting with less storyline and some sort of universal skill tree for character advancement.

As much as I’d love to see a renaissance of the early Ultima Online expansions, Planescape, or Tibia with modern-style technology and ideas the much I know this won’t happen anytime soon. Not in general nor in Minetest specifically.

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Re: Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by Skulls » Post

I think you are dead wrong here.
Otter wrote:On most servers, if we take away a characters objects we take away everything. ... We have no back story. Our house will probably have more personality than our character does.
You can't take away someone's personality or assumed personality. You also can't give a player an RP personality via game mechanics. This is all made up in your head and communicated to others through your actions. Can you tell a stranger's personality if you just see them on the street?
Otter wrote:When chatting, we are, for the most part, ourselves and not our personas.
This is up to the player and the server culture. Does the server foster a RP culture and do you actively seek out players who want to RP during play?
Otter wrote:Our skins are a chaotic mix of Luca Libre masks (Latin American wrestling) that will be covered by armor. Our armor will mostly tell people how advanced we are. Apart from that characters for the most part lack distinction.
These are (virtual) physical things and can't grant you a personality. I can buy "interesting" shoes but that does not make me a different person. I can change my character skin to something "cool" but that does not make me cool. The reasons why I chose that skin, or chose gold armor over iron, or use an ax over a sword are the RP elements.
Otter wrote:While saying this, and believing it to be a flaw, there is a strong exception to this that is not as common in other games. Explorers will tend to have... Miners will have ... Builders will end up knowing ...
If you were to RP an explorer you may end up forgoing the mining and building. If you are just exploring because you prefer to explore, you are playing your own personality. If you are a really good builder but decide to assume the personality of an explorer and intentionally not gather resources now you are really role playing.
Otter wrote:That lack of character sadly means that there is a dimension missing from most servers.
Lack of character or lack of in game mechanics? You seem to want to have the whole STR INT CHA style attributes associated with a character, levels, and noob vs experienced imbalance. That isn't role playing, that is min maxing. Your character's personality is not their stats or items.

One huge advantage an open, mutable world like Minetest has is that absolutely everything is changeable. You are role playing a smart person and need to get through a dangerous cave to rescue the villagers? You can block baddies in or dig around them. You need to save the town from the oncoming fire? Build a fire break. You want to RP a retired adventurer who is just looking for the simple life? One custom cabin, coming right up. You just can't do these types of things in other games. All of the fancy stats and mechanics actively hinder role play where it becomes just ridiculous.

But one thing which might help Minetest RP would be some more character animations and emotes. A character model that would be customized a bit or some more attachments so that folks could express themselves. But that is just icing on the cake. It is 100% up to the players and the server.

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Re: Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by firefox » Post

Otter wrote:We have no back story. Our house will probably have more personality than our character does.
actually we make our own background story, just like we make our own houses.
Otter wrote:When chatting, we are, for the most part, ourselves and not our personas.
it's like that in every game where the player can choose their own words to say. (only singleplayer with scripted dialogue is unaffected)
it takes some effort to give your character a personality and act it out at all times, but it's highly rewarding if you do. i think this is what makes the difference between real RPGamers and people playing a game.
Otter wrote:Our skins are a chaotic mix of Luca Libre masks (Latin American wrestling) that will be covered by armor. Our armor will mostly tell people how advanced we are. Apart from that characters for the most part lack distinction.
not all players wear their armour all the time, because a precious high level armour can easyly break by a few stupid accidents, like falling off the roof.
so in the overworld, people tend to wear less or no armour pieces and the custom skin that makes the players appearance different from others is visible.
also, on Xanadu we now have Clear Crystal Armour, which is the same as the regular version but invisible.

expandind the armour mod like this is a good solution to preserve the players unique appearance.
my ideas are different types or armour with different bonus effects, like a knight armour for defense and a ninja suit for speed. and/or attaching dyes on armour to match it with your custom skin or express your character.
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Re: Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by Otter » Post

A lot of good responses have come up here. I am choosing not to defend or reinforce the ideas I present in the original posts here. I want to encourage thought and not entrench ideas by argument. I appreciate the time and the arguments that are made in response to these ideas.

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Re: Why Your Server is Messed Up ;) part 2, Characters

by Skulls » Post

Otter wrote:A lot of good responses have come up here. I am choosing not to defend or reinforce the ideas I present in the original posts here. I want to encourage thought and not entrench ideas by argument. I appreciate the time and the arguments that are made in response to these ideas.
It's a good conversation to have. With a game like Minetest it really comes down to what the player base wants to do on the server. You get a lot of minigame style stuff and even more survival / building. But from what I have seen there is very little leveling or more traditional RPG style play. It would be interesting to have but with any character class or leveled abilities you are imposing restrictions. Spell casters don't use heavy armor, healers don't do a lot of damage, etc etc. So you are taking away something to give a better whatever in the interest of balance. This is basically an attempt to simulate skill in the player (expert versus beginner where the expert is faster and better through game mechanics). Similar to a FPS the skill of the Minetest character is the skill of the player. Note that the things that you mentioned as character traits (knowledge of areas, ability to get resources, good social skills, artistic building) are things that would be very hard to simulate in game without being completly contrived.

Game design is hard.

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