Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

yw05
Member
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 12:59
GitHub: y5nw
IRC: y5nw
In-game: ywang
Location: Germany

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by yw05 » Post

Chiantos wrote:
MoNTE48 wrote:
Lejo wrote:I think the main question is:
Why not Minetest? Why an own fork? You can also contribute to Minetest.
Well, I think this is an advantage of open source. Minetest has its own vision of the game, I have mine. As long as a person fully complies with the license, he has the right to do whatever he wants with the source code. I want to develop my game and enjoy my right. I’ve done some PR in Minetest and may continue to do so in the future. It seems to me that the three main advantages of MultiCraft are the completeness of the game (the player gets a ready-made game with many functions and elegant textures, he doesn’t need to look for mods, subgames, etc.), developer rewards (I pay for MultiCraft contributions) and having a certain idea and leader, if I may say so. MultiCraft has a clear idea, goal, and goes for it. Minetest - engine. MultiCraft is a game.
True, I sometimes wonder if the interest of open source is in a unique sense for some people.
Minetest is supposed to be an engine ...
I do not understand people who take it bad that creators distribute their game independently. If you want a product to be closed, then it should not be "Open Source". It makes sense that a game designed on an engine, can be distributed independently as Monte48 does with Multicraft and as I want to do for BlockColor. And even if people would like fork minetest, you have nothing to say, as long as the sources are available.While most people will not see if multicraft uses Minetest. But do people ask themselves the question for other engines, like unity, unreal or other? No, but the popularity of a game can attract devellopers to the engine.
This is where I find the reaction of some members of the community and even devellopeur fairly closed and even sectarian, you talk about sharing, but only when it should concern you. And if Multicraft is more popular than minetest, this is probably because the product provides in itself with MTG is not a product that gives the desire to play.
And that's the problem, you do not have to start saying which games or servers have the right to be used on minetest or you've become completely idiots. Because it's not Open Source, this vision is not a vision of sharing.
When we create games, mods or servers for minetest we do it for free and even at our expense. I have never fully understood the logic of some supporters of the free: you say to yourself for the free and opensource, but you aggize as a radically closed person, allowing you to judge a product that would not be official or would from shadow to the official product.
If Multicraft works better, it's not his fault, it may also be because the game provides basic Minetest simply unplayable without mods. And a basic game must be able to play without the installation of mods or games beforehand. If you want to compete with MultiCraft, you need to provide a better quality MTG.
I do not really understand why some people seem to believe that someone wants to use minetest to distribute a final product. This is not basic, what should an Engine do? Why are you just not proud that this guy is coming through your basic product, to provide his game. Should not you be happy for his success?
The importance is not that the original project or multicraft is the best known, or even blockcolor, but simply that the code is to distribute to the most person ... Allowing to arrive at an essential thing of free: The Modification, Contribution and Sharing of code and sources, so that more people can participate, interest and even play.
And if they do not understand Monte48 ... Continue to do what you like, the main thing is that you contribute to your way to the dissemination of the code, its modification and contribution. And even if they do not see it that way.
MTG uses Minetest, Multicraft uses Minetest, BlockColor uses Minetest ... There is no Game or Official Server, Minetest is the engine and that's all Minetest. To make it better, we should stop wishing to make war on other products using Minetest.
just stop seeing enemies or bad intentions, and just see that the engine is used. It's the best thing, and the more you help in the process by supporting people like Monte48 and the other creators, and more the creativity on this engine will evolve and even attract.
The term "Official" or "Better" has no meaning in Open Source, it is for people who want to keep a control of the code and not share it.
Good Day
The problem is not really the fact itself that other developers create forks, we have no problems if you simply want a game for yourself. The problem comes with cheating and advertising.
Lejo wrote:I already told you why not to disable the default anticheat.
I know that there are also reasons to use anticheat, but there are also reasons not to do so. For many servers anticheat is ok, but for those that have trouble with anticheat it is a responsibility to disable them. Using anticheat on your server doesn't mean that those with anticheat disabled are mad or that every server should not disable it.

User avatar
Festus1965
Member
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:58
GitHub: Festus1965
In-game: Festus1965 Thomas Thailand Explorer
Location: Thailand ChiangMai
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Festus1965 » Post

we better go a step beck and ask the first poster and ourself, what he and we mean with:

Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?
Human has no future (climate change)
If urgend, you find me in Roblox (as CNXThomas)

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by rubenwardy » Post

Minetest needs better marketing (ahem, Minetest doesn't inspire confidence) but not necessarily advertising. We are already notable in the open source gaming community, with some extra polish in-game and value proposition online then it will be easier to draw in players
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Festus1965
Member
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:58
GitHub: Festus1965
In-game: Festus1965 Thomas Thailand Explorer
Location: Thailand ChiangMai
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Festus1965 » Post

rubenwardy wrote:Minetest needs better marketing (ahem, Minetest doesn't inspire confidence) but not necessarily advertising. We are already notable in the open source gaming community, with some extra polish in-game and value proposition online then it will be easier to draw in players
What is minetest for you ? Is it including Multicraft ? or other maybe legal forks ?
Human has no future (climate change)
If urgend, you find me in Roblox (as CNXThomas)

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by rubenwardy » Post

Minetest is the upstream project at minetest.net and github.com/minetest
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Festus1965
Member
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:58
GitHub: Festus1965
In-game: Festus1965 Thomas Thailand Explorer
Location: Thailand ChiangMai
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Festus1965 » Post

rubenwardy wrote:Minetest is the upstream project at minetest.net and github.com/minetest
Thanks - and all others, read this very slow and be sure you understood !
Human has no future (climate change)
If urgend, you find me in Roblox (as CNXThomas)

User avatar
LMD
Member
Posts: 1386
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 08:16
GitHub: appgurueu
IRC: appguru[eu]
In-game: LMD
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by LMD » Post

Probably "marketing" is a better word than "advertising".
Here are some ideas concerning marketing :
- Include a playable & high quality default MTG (mobs included), probably also MineClone2 to attract all those who want a "free MC"
- Turn minimal into the current MTG or make it harder to find (because else some kids could think that's the game)
- Include a short guide, showing new users how MT works (pointing at websites, showcasing some games and mods, making sure they check out some of the best servers, ...)

And probably "advertisement":
- Better website (I don't think the current one is too bad, but it just looks like an informational website for a small business, should rather look like a website for a game/engine)
- Also, if you want MT to be used, label it as game. Don't make people download an engine. Make them download a moddable game.
My stuff: Projects - Mods - Website

yw05
Member
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 12:59
GitHub: y5nw
IRC: y5nw
In-game: ywang
Location: Germany

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by yw05 » Post

@LMD:
Yes, and we need to request translations of Minetest.net homepage.

User avatar
Festus1965
Member
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:58
GitHub: Festus1965
In-game: Festus1965 Thomas Thailand Explorer
Location: Thailand ChiangMai
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Festus1965 » Post

yw05 wrote:@LMD:
Yes, and we need to request translations of Minetest.net homepage.
ahh yw05 look here, also this I knew longer ... and started to do, but also got complain on it ...
Human has no future (climate change)
If urgend, you find me in Roblox (as CNXThomas)

yw05
Member
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 12:59
GitHub: y5nw
IRC: y5nw
In-game: ywang
Location: Germany

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by yw05 » Post

Festus: Whan I was talking about "translating the MT homepage", I wanted to talk about Minetest.cn, but that page doesn't load here, even in China...
I have been playing on a server for some time, and I also tried to translate some page on the server Wiki (obviously to Chinese), but it appears that there aren't other Chinese users on the server except me...
Image
Attachments
Screenshot_20190620-211359_Firefox.jpg
Screenshot_20190620-211359_Firefox.jpg (152.6 KiB) Viewed 1180 times

User avatar
Festus1965
Member
Posts: 4181
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:58
GitHub: Festus1965
In-game: Festus1965 Thomas Thailand Explorer
Location: Thailand ChiangMai
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Festus1965 » Post

yw05 wrote:Festus: When I was talking about "translating the MT homepage", I wanted to talk about Minetest.cn, but that page doesn't load here, even in China...
seams have been gone now - and so also I deleted my translated sites for ad minetest in another 15 languages,
why should I have keep everything actual, when no one was interested.
So its gone, as my 2nd server now also off...
only 1st server keep running hidden, not giving anymore my clients for stats,
and I am out here ...
Human has no future (climate change)
If urgend, you find me in Roblox (as CNXThomas)

User avatar
paramat
Developer
Posts: 3700
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat
Location: UK

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by paramat » Post

jp wrote:... some people here make inflammatory comments about MultiCraft but actually work and make benefits from it. Funny, irresponsible and hypocrite.
The first link in the quote is potentially misleading, it links to a list of commits i have authored, but that list includes my commits to Minetest which have then been ported to MultiCraft.
I have made 7 commits to MultiCraft, here are my PRs https://github.com/MultiCraftProject/Mu ... %3Aparamat the ones marked 'merged' were merged, the others marked 'closed' were not.

I don't 'make benefits' from MultiCraft anymore, i last did paid work for MultiCraft in October 2018. Around that time i decided to stop working for MultiCraft due to both parties becoming inceasingly unhappy with the cooperation. Also at that time MultiCraft development was stopped and i therefore deleted my fork.

Since then, and since development started again 3 months ago, i have not pursued paid work, i gave a little mapgen advice for free, as i do for anyone.

Also, i intended to restore an unmerged and already paid-for PR from August 2018 which was closed and couldn't be reopened due to the deletion of my fork. The second link in the quote is to a simple PR from May 2019 that i did for free that fixed compilation on Linux so that i could work on restoring the PR.
Despite becoming increasingly unhappy with MultiCraft i felt it was right to restore work that had already been paid for. I intended this to be the last PR i create for MultiCraft.

All the above happened before my 'inflammatory comments' in this thread.

Finally, around the time of my previous post in this thread (15 June), due to both parties becoming very unhappy with the cooperation, i left detailed instructions for how to restore the PR, which is very to do easy and takes 10 mins. I now have no involvement or communication with MultiCraft.

MoNTE48
Member
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:58
GitHub: MoNTE48
In-game: MoNTE48
Location: Internet

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by MoNTE48 » Post

This is my last message to Matthew.
I will ignore you in the future here and on Github. I’m not interested in working with you (above Minetest too). I will be grateful if you stop mentioning my fork and me, and do something useful. You said a lot of superfluous. I may too. We will show wisdom if we no longer contact at all.
Respectfully.

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

LMD wrote:- Also, if you want MT to be used, label it as game.
The problem is, that it basically IS labelled as game while in reality it is a bundle of the engine and a modding base and debugging leftovers.

User avatar
Wuzzy
Member
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 15:01
GitHub: Wuzzy2
IRC: Wuzzy
In-game: Wuzzy
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Wuzzy » Post

Where marketing fails:

1) Minetest Game is a terrible choice for the default game because, frankly, it hardly deserves the name “game”. It is lacking in so much gameplay and gets boring quickly because there's not much to do. This criticism is VERY VERY common! In reality, Minetest Game is basically a developer toybox for the core devs, not really something for players. Therefore, Minetest Game should no longer be promoted as a game, let alone as the default one. Don't get me wrong, Minetest Game still IS useful, but only if you heavily mod it yourselves. This is something for power users, NOT newbies we want to advertise Minetest for!
2) Whenever we talk about Minetest anywhere, there is WAY too much emphasis on Minetest Game. Real games completely fall under the table which is a real shame. The bias on Minetest Game is way out of proportion and deals a lot of damage
3) Even in 2019, there is STILL a lot of confusion between Minetest and Minetest Game … This is a clear sign that we have failed miserably in explaining what Minetest even means …
4) The minetest.net homepage is not good enough in explaining what Minetest can do. It kind of lacks the overview. There is a grand total of 6 “meh” screenshots, mostly MTG. There is no real showcase of high-quality games or servers. These Solarus and FLARE webpages got it right. The Minetest webpage didn't.
5) Basically nobody not already knee-deep in the community understands THE major selling point of Minetest: That you can ran multiple games on it. This single feature must be advertised much more heavily, plus showcasing a few quality games (problem: we don't have any)
6) Frankly, we don't have any games that are truly ready for “prime time” yet. Every game we have now is either broken, very buggy, in eternal alpha or beta version, heavily unpolished or just not fun. We have games that come close to being “marketable”, but there's is always “something” … There's the general impression the entirety of Minetest games is made by amateurs. Which is probably the case.
7) Frankly, Minetest is really hard to advertise. The UI looks horrible, especially the main menu is user-hostile and ugly and needs a major overhaul. An improvement of the UI also will mean there will be prettier screenshots to show off ^^
8) Google Play is flooded with crappy Minetest forks for Android. In the best case they are just crappy and in the worst case include advertisements or even in-app-purchases. This makes is even harder for Minetest to stand out. At least none of the forks call themselves “Minetest”, so they don't ruin Minetest's reputation
9) The App Store from Apple has multiple Minetest forks but not Minetest itself!!! Is this even allowed??? No wonder our servers are filled with players who complain about ads …

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Wuzzy wrote:4) The minetest.net homepage is not good enough in explaining what Minetest can do. It kind of lacks the overview. There is a grand total of 6 “meh” screenshots, mostly MTG. There is no real showcase of high-quality games or servers. These Solarus and FLARE webpages got it right. The Minetest webpage didn't.
There were multiple discussions on modernizing the page or at least adapt it to the reality that was introduced with 5.0.0 … i.e. content database hidden somewhere in the footer instead of bein positioned in a prominent location on the main page. It is nice to have a link on the “customize” page, but no-one will click this tab in reality.

People get scared away by the dark and depressing header image and the six utterly bland screenshots that are labelled as a “Gallery”, more like a joke.

But this applies to the whole page. For example: Click “features”, boom, the menu is gone, no way to get back to other menu options. Or click on “Downloads” there the menu is visible again. Do not mess with navigation options. Ever. If there is a menu bar, show it on all pages. Or at least add a hamburger menu or a three dots menu to show the navigation options when scrolling away from the navigation bar.

Oh, and while on “Downloads”. Why is the first section there about the FAQ? And why is the “Get it on Google Play” so badly aligned? And speaking of this button, what do {# and #} around the APK link mean? And why are the Linux links so inconsistent?

The Debian link brings you to the package search instead of the package, the Ubuntu link brings you to a package sources overview or a PPA, the Fedora link brings you to the package, and VoidLinux link brings you to something – dead? And I am not entirely sure, do tey still use make install on FreeBSD instead of using the package manager for self-compiled packages, too?

I am by far not a web designer (heck, my website bases on changing the Apache directory listing output using CSS), but I know when I see a user-friendly and modern game engine website, and minetest.net is not one.
Wuzzy wrote:This single feature must be advertised much more heavily, plus showcasing a few quality games (problem: we don't have any)
We don’t have any good games because the core devs did not make one (according to paramat the core devs are “the people most qualified to create new games”).
Wuzzy wrote:Every game we have now is …
… basically are more or less heavy modded “Minetest Game”.
Wuzzy wrote:The UI looks horrible, especially the main menu is user-hostile and ugly and needs a major overhaul.
This won’t happen because it could cause minor breakage in how the UI of mods look. Having a look at Minetest development shows that the devs are uber scared of even the slightest inconvenience related to stuff that was made for 3-4 larger updates ago (which is pretty much 3-4 years).

There are some things that won’t change until someone forks Minetest and gets successful with it and will have some active devs that do not fear breaking backwards compatibility for content that was made for multiple years old versions and is nowadays abandoned.

1. World size
2. Maximum registered nodes size
3. Lighting system
4. Maximum stack size
5. Those stupid Formspecs and their weird syntax
6. An actual game shipped with default installation
Wuzzy wrote:Google Play is flooded with crappy Minetest forks for Android. In the best case they are just crappy and in the worst case include advertisements or even in-app-purchases.
Don’t worry, the devs are generous towards them. Some devs even worked for them (and at least one dev got money for working for one of them) and the majority of the devs endorses those forks to parasitize the Minetest infrastructure.

(All of my statements base on facts that are provable by searching through the forums and the GitHub repositories but actually I am too fucking lazy doing this now. I just accepted the development pace and style for Minetest. We can’t change it anyways, so why putting effort in changing it?)

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by rubenwardy » Post

Linuxdirk wrote:5. Those stupid Formspecs and their weird syntax
5.1.0 will contain a large number of formspec features, including fixed formspec co-ordinates and styling/theming. Unfortunately, there's no replacement for the formspec format yet. This will need a lot more planning to not end up in the same state
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

rubenwardy wrote:5.1.0 will contain a large number of formspec features, including fixed formspec co-ordinates and styling/theming.
You can apply gold paint to a broken car, yes. And it will look nice and golden, but it’s still a broken car.
rubenwardy wrote:Unfortunately, there's no replacement for the formspec format yet. This will need a lot more planning to not end up in the same state
Are there any plans that are more than a discussion for the sake of discussion and then have the issue or PR closed?

User avatar
rubenwardy
Moderator
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by rubenwardy » Post

Linuxdirk wrote: You can apply gold paint to a broken car, yes. And it will look nice and golden, but it’s still a broken car.

It's actually the opposite - fixing the engine of a car with rusty paint
Renewed Tab (my browser add-on) | Donate | Mods | Minetest Modding Book

Hello profile reader

User avatar
Wuzzy
Member
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 15:01
GitHub: Wuzzy2
IRC: Wuzzy
In-game: Wuzzy
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Wuzzy » Post

People get scared away by the dark and depressing header image and the six utterly bland screenshots that are labelled as a “Gallery”, more like a joke.
The gallery is crap, I agree. I don't know if it scares away people.
But this applies to the whole page. For example: Click “features”, boom, the menu is gone,
It's not actually gone, it's at the top of the page. We can safely assume our users are smart enough to scroll. Anyway, the links are still weird. Some links lead to a new page, triggering a page load, while other links just link you to an anchor on the same page. Very confusing and it doesn't really make sense.
I am by far not a web designer (heck, my website bases on changing the Apache directory listing output using CSS), but I know when I see a user-friendly and modern game engine website, and minetest.net is not one.
“Modern” is highly subjective and has no meaning. This will just lead people to make 1000s of conflicting suggestions because everyone thinks THEY have it all figured out. I am for fact-based UI design, rather than feeling-based UI design.

Anyway, the most important thing about a website is not actually its usability (it's still very important!), but its content. Content is King! The website is just not very informative on Minetest itself. A complete newbie will probably not understand what Minetest means, even after reading everything.
the majority of the devs endorses those forks to parasitize the Minetest infrastructure.
[citation needed]
We don’t have any good games because the core devs did not make one
Hey, I think I am fairly capable of making a good game! I just need time …
Also, I know sofar and nore are definitely capable of making great games. Inside The Box. It's such a shame we can't showcase this because it's online-only … >_>
1. World size
This seems low-priority IMO. I never bumped into the world edge in legitimate play so far. Did you? The world size is not actually what's important in sandbox game. It's important what and how many things you can do in that sandbox. What's the point of a huge world if it looks the same everywhere and you can't do much in it?
2. Maximum registered nodes size
Hmmm, I never bumped into that limit either, but I imagine others did. Who did bump into the limit so far?
3. Lighting system
Yeah, that would be nice, but definitely not cheap. The downside is that you would completely explode the world size with this. Every bit of information you add to the node data will increase the world size exponentionally. This stuff is really expensive, sadly. This will definitely require a hard fork.
4. Maximum stack size
Isn't 65535 enough???? What is your use case?
5. Those stupid Formspecs and their weird syntax
50% agree. Formspecs are stupid, but the syntax is actually the least of our worries. You can get used to it. It doesn't have to be user-friendly, just programmer-friendly. The syntax is strange but it works just fine. Changing the syntax is just a lot of work with no real payout. The biggest REAL problem is the utterly broken coordinate system because this really makes formspec design hard as hell. But they are about to fix it (FINALLY). The second-biggest problem in formspecs is lack of useful widgets.

I never understand why Minetest devs just didn't pick some UI library with tons of tried-and-tested high-quality widgets instead of starting from zero. It would have avoided so many problems. :-(
6. An actual game shipped with default installation
Yeah.

IMO the current strongest candidate would be Pixture, but it needs tons of bugfixes first.

User avatar
v-rob
Developer
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 03:19
GitHub: v-rob
IRC: v-rob
Location: Right behind you.

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by v-rob » Post

Wuzzy wrote: 50% agree. Formspecs are stupid, but the syntax is actually the least of our worries. You can get used to it. It doesn't have to be user-friendly, just programmer-friendly. The syntax is strange but it works just fine. Changing the syntax is just a lot of work with no real payout. The biggest REAL problem is the utterly broken coordinate system because this really makes formspec design hard as hell. But they are about to fix it (FINALLY). The second-biggest problem in formspecs is lack of useful widgets.
Well, this main problem was fixed by real_coordinates (and it has been merged already), so no worrys. As for new widgets, take a look at this. It's not done yet, but it will be soon. With these mouse events and key events, making new Lua-side widgets would be possible, although slow on servers.

I'm also planning on making a spinbox (like a field, but only takes numbers and has increase/decrease buttons) since Irrlicht has that. Also have a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8680.

The main problem with the formspec string is that when anything has to be updated, the whole form needs to be reshown.
Wuzzy wrote:I never understand why Minetest devs just didn't pick some UI library with tons of tried-and-tested high-quality widgets instead of starting from zero. It would have avoided so many problems. :-(
That's probably because formspecs really weren't intended for much beyond inventories and a few buttons.
Core Developer | My Best Mods: Bridger - Slats - Stained Glass

ShadMOrdre
Member
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 08:07
Location: USA

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by ShadMOrdre » Post

according to paramat the core devs are “the people most qualified
This is about as factually true as one can state. I'll tell ya now, the person who wrote the code is probably, and most often actually the one person who understands its purpose best. However, this quote is the expression of one's opinion. To use a quoted opinion as a reason to then not do anything seems rather obsurd.

While they are probably the "best" resource for creating games using the MT engine, I seriously doubt even they would claim to be the best game developer. So, pick your poison. I'm neither offended, put off, discouraged, or otherwise impaired from coding what I choose, how I choose, and well, when I choose.

@Wuzzy has been very on point here, in regards to his critique of the minetest.net website, the main menu of MT, and the utter lack of quality games.

The website simply needs updated. Who among us is willing to design a more attractive site?

The main menu seriously needs updated. Who among us is willing to design a more attractive main menu.

Better games need to be made available. This is without a doubt an addressable issue. MTG is used as the base for most of the games I've looked at. Even if the entirety of MTG is not necessarily included, the default mod is the core of "everything". This is a very valid complaint, and at the heart of the issue, in many ways. Wuzzy worked in MCL2, to change this, but essentially recreated MTG+/MC, just reorganizing the code into a somewhat more coherent structure. Please do not take this personally Wuzzy, I don't think the reorganization was taken far enough. But that's all beside the point. At least he tried, and we get MCL2 out of his efforts. While it may not be a choice game for some of us, it is a far better effort than MTG. But again, MTG is a dev thing, honestly, a testbed to try new engine features. Expecting it to be a game, or advertising it as such, really does defeat the purpose.

IMHO, Minetest is more comparable to Roblox. It just isn't advertised, or designed to really work within that context. The CDB is akin, or should be, to the main screen one sees when logging into Roblox. Roblox is not a game, but an environment in which others can create content and share with others. Open world isn't the goal in Roblox, it is simply the setting. Users need to download games to play, and devs need to make those games, otherwise Roblox would be nothing more than a game environment devoid of content.

Both the website, the CDB, and the main menu need to work in tandem to act more like Roblox, since this is the most appropriate comparison.

This leads me to the bigger point here. Please forgive me because I know this sounds very harsh. I only mean it with the best intentions, not as insult or hostility. We here who are active in this community are mostly devs or admins. If we complain, but do nothing to help, then we only have ourselves to blame, certainly not the core devs, who are only doing the same thing we are; that which interests us.

So....
Put up or shut up.
Shad

User avatar
Linuxdirk
Member
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21
In-game: Linuxdirk
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by Linuxdirk » Post

Wuzzy wrote:Anyway, the most important thing about a website is not actually its usability (it's still very important!), but its content. Content is King!
Content is king in newsgroups or mailing lists, yes. Or in IRC. In reality UI design is a multi million dollars business sector. Visual representation in a visual medium is equally important as the content.
Wuzzy wrote:
the majority of the devs endorses those forks to parasitize the Minetest infrastructure.
[citation needed]
General mood in this issue: https://github.com/minetest/master-server/issues/32

"I have made 7 commits to MultiCraft [...] i last did paid work for MultiCraft in October 2018."

The vast majority of forks on the server list are friendly
Wuzzy wrote:I never bumped into the world edge in legitimate play so far. Did you?
Doing a nomad play (do not settle for longer than 2 nights, always go in the same direction) I actually pumped into the world edges twice within a few real-life days of interrupted gameplay.
Wuzzy wrote:
2. Maximum registered nodes size
Hmmm, I never bumped into that limit either, but I imagine others did. Who did bump into the limit so far?
It is an arbitrary set number. And: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6101
Wuzzy wrote:
3. Lighting system
Yeah, that would be nice, but definitely not cheap. The downside is that you would completely explode the world size with this.
Not at all, because the light is dynamically generated based on a light source and the 3D structure of the world and is not stored on mapblock or node.
Wuzzy wrote:
4. Maximum stack size
Isn't 65535 enough???? What is your use case?
I was referring to the default stack size, not the theoretically possible stack size.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1843
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5730
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1724
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/394
Wuzzy wrote:I never understand why Minetest devs just didn't pick some UI library with tons of tried-and-tested high-quality widgets instead of starting from zero. It would have avoided so many problems. :-(
"bECauSE IT oOUld cAUSe BreAkiNG bAcKWardS cOmpAtIbILItY"
ShadMOrdre wrote:
according to paramat the core devs are “the people most qualified
This is about as factually true as one can state. I'll tell ya now, the person who wrote the code is probably, and most often actually the one person who understands its purpose best.
Just because you're the best mechanic in the world does not qualify you as best competitive racing driver in the world.

MoNTE48
Member
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:58
GitHub: MoNTE48
In-game: MoNTE48
Location: Internet

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by MoNTE48 » Post

I can agree with most of the above. Clarification on "The vast majority of forks on the server list are friendly" post by rubenwardy.
This guy never worked for MC. We talked a little with him by email, in terms of several issues not related to development.
In fact, there are only a few Core Devs who have worked on the MC (some under different names). The rest of the people are either not related to Minetest at all, or simple contributors. Some of them do not even have an account on Github and send me the code in other ways :)

What about publishing a game on Steam? I am willing to sponsor this for Minetest and assist in the creation of a package.

User avatar
LMD
Member
Posts: 1386
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 08:16
GitHub: appgurueu
IRC: appguru[eu]
In-game: LMD
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should we "advertise" Minetest better ?

by LMD » Post

I would probably design a better website.
My stuff: Projects - Mods - Website

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests