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Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 01:00
by Yvanhoe
That's a good example to think about what you want people to be able to do with your mods.

I know that I would be annoyed if someone took my mod, incorporated it into a closed mod/game and refused to release the modifications they made. This is what the WTFPL, MIT, CC-BY allow. And to some extent, LGPL and CC-BY-SA as well (you can incorporate them into closed games, you just have to release the modifications to your mod).

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 01:16
by jp
Yvanhoe wrote:That's a good example to think about what you want people to be able to do with your mods.


No, this isn't a good example. The kidsbot has been made from scratch and it is vastly superior to whatever bot you can find on Minetest.

We do use LGPL or MIT mods and they remain open-source.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 01:45
by TumeniNodes
I have always found it slightly amusing, that so many who claim to be staunch supporters of all that is the open source community, and the freedom it stands for, become so upset when someone uses the very licenses created from that community in a manner which they do not approve... even when it is a manner which is highly permitted within the license itself.
I've seen it many times over the years, and it is nothing short of hypocritical.
For those who are not aware, some improvements have been ported upstream to Minetest from this project.

This is useless and, I will say it, "childish" bickering over something which is fully permitted.
If you support the freedoms of the open source community, you support all those freedoms, whether you like them or not.
And this aspect has now already been exhausted, and is straying off the topic.

Full support is offered by professionals from the project, and tbh I do not see any problems related to the part of the code in question here... because there is no problem.
It's a good project, and has been making good strides... should be rather congratulating it, and even a bit proud.

Working with education systems related to software is a cut throat business... you have to have some sort of an edge or something unique to provide. Kidsbot... is that unique, edge.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 06:54
by texmex
For my part I was simply curious about it. I mostly agree with Tumeni.

And so, another day, another topic derailed.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:47
by Yvanhoe
I am not saying that kidsbot is being evil, and I am totally agreeing that what they are doing is 100% legal. I am simply warning mod writers that this is a good thing to keep in mind when choosing a license: you are agreeing with your code being part of things like kidsbot.

I am writing software for a living, both open and closed, under various licenses. I have no problem with either and I am very happy when in a proprietary project I stumble upon an MIT lib that I can integrate directly into my code. It is just that too often I have found open source contributors surprised to discover their MIT/BSD content integrated into a closed source software.

And I think that more people should be aware of the Affero GPL. Technically today you can host a modified GPL server without sharing your modifications.

I am starting to write mods during my free time because I think minetest is great as a free game. I do not want it to be part of a commercial suite, otherwise I'd just mod minecraft. I understand other people do not mind, I just do and I think a lot of the people choosing liberal licenses do not realize the rights they give away.

I say Kidsbot is good to give as an example because then you can say "if you are ok with what they are doing, then the license you are using is fine. If you are not, consider something more protective."

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 14:33
by runs
Minecraft was 'boring' till v1.7.3...

Minetest is not boring, is simply imperfect, still.

"kidsbot" is a propietary mod. They have all the rights to protect it.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 01:46
by Yvanhoe
If one finds minetest boring, try the digtron and its boring machines! You wont get bored!

More seriously, I see Minetest and its mods as an awesome toolbox to design cool games. Minetest_game is a bit more of a demo of stable mods than a complete game.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 14:17
by burli
Red_King_Cyclops wrote:Although Minetest was made to be an engine for mods...


That's one point where I've been running into trouble lately. Randomly downloaded mods and, even more trouble, modpacks.

I have downloaded some mods and modpacks via contentdb. I didn't pay attention and downloaded the Dreambuilder Modpack. Because some mods were doubled or even tripled, nothing worked anymore. I couldn't load and use any more mods.

I think that downloading and using mods and modpacks "on the fly" is a big problem and leads to confusion and trouble. It's handy if you want to test something, but creating serious maps with it is a bad idea. It would be better to use the main menu to create subgames, each with its own mods, rather than simply extending a map with mods from a common mod pool.

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:45
by burli
burli wrote:I don't think I'll make any more contributions to Minetest, because all the work isn't worth it if it doesn't get any credit.


As mentioned I don't want to make any contributions to Minetest, but mostly because I reached the limits of Lua and the Minetest engine itself and I'm not able (and willing) to write code in C++.

I will focus on Rust because I think this language will grow in the near future. It is amazing how easy it is to create and manage projects, but because the language is so different to most other languages it is not easy to learn. But I think it's worth it. It's almost impossible to write insecure code because the compiler won't allow it, unless you want it, and you can write software with the same performance as C or C++.

these days learning C++ feels like milking a dead cow. Even Microsoft thinks about using Rust instead of C++

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:22
by texmex
Ooh, perhaps Veloren can be of interest then: https://github.com/veloren/veloren

Re: Minetest is boring (clickbait) A few thoughts about Mine

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:38
by burli
Interesting. Will try it. But I'm far away to contribute to such a project