DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

Chiantos
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DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Sun Jul 28, 2019 20:16

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by v-rob » Sun Jul 28, 2019 20:35

Good for you! This is a very important thing that needs to be taken seriously, and I'm glad someone is doing something instead of letting it slide and saying "Oh, I'll deal with it later. It's not that important." Other people should take action as well when they see violations of their licenses.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:09

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by waldberg » Tue Jul 30, 2019 13:22

This was a good action by you!

In my opinion there is another problem... every client which is forked from Minetest shows ads. And this means with a very big probability that the people who publish these forks are getting money through the ads.

But all these forks are mainly containing the Minetest code. Everything is based on the code of Minetest or it is the code of Minetest. So the people are getting money with codes of others – with the codes of the Minetest developers...
If the license of Minetest allows this or not... how could this be? This is morally totally wrong I think.

The publisher of the forks are taking advantage on forking Minetest – they are getting money although they only develop a little bit and almost the whole code is copied.
This is without any respect to the developers of Minetest in my opinion.
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 13:34

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 14:45

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Yvanhoe » Tue Jul 30, 2019 15:28

In my opinion, one should really consider the Affero GPL when choosing a license for their mods.

See, the LGPL/GPL only forces you to hand code to software you distribute. If you use a modified GPL code on a server to create a paying game, you don't have to share the code. I could start a $10/month server, modify code from various LGPL or WTFPL mods, not publish my mods and be totally within the law.

The Affero GPL forces you to publish your code as soon as you are using the software to service users. Consider it.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Tue Jul 30, 2019 17:07

waldberg wrote:If the license of Minetest allows this or not

GPL allows making money with the source code, yeah...
But you need to publish the source code(Which is nearly 0% done in Google Play Store). GPL has a strict copyleft. GPL for big projects isn't that bad. For example: Android. Google make money with it, but need to publish the source code again, what's really helpful for Linux in general.
Taking source code from other and make money with it, is morally indefensible(When not many changes are made), but GPL allows it.
That's why my mods are published under CC BY-NC. NC stand for non commercial use only. But this license will maybe be disallowed in the content db soon.
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Linuxdirk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 17:21

TalkLounge wrote:But you need to publish the source code

Code under GPL can be used in combination with non-free code without any issues, as long as you publish all changes of the code under GPL. If your own code uses a proprietary license and absolutely no code under GPL you’re good to go.

TalkLounge wrote:That's why my mods are published under CC BY-NC. NC stand for non commercial use only.

This basically makes CC BY-NC (and all other NC licenses) non-free licenses.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Tue Jul 30, 2019 17:35

Linuxdirk wrote:This basically makes CC BY-NC (and all other NC licenses) non-free licenses.

And where's the problem? My code, my decision what license I want to use. If a big company comes and want to use my mod, then I can decide to change the license. Or if minetest want to take a mod from me to the minetest_game. Then there would be no problem just to change the license, because normally I don't accept any pull requests from people who care about my license and are not ok with a change to a more free license :)
But if you ban them in content db, you are doing censorship.
Just because of those forks I decided to go to CC BY-NC :)
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Linuxdirk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 17:44

TalkLounge wrote:
Linuxdirk wrote:This basically makes CC BY-NC (and all other NC licenses) non-free licenses.

And where's the problem? My code, my decision …

Yeah, sure, use whatever non-free license for your code you want. By the way, even the creator of this license suggests not using the licenses for code.

We recommend against using Creative Commons licenses for software. Instead, we strongly encourage you to use one of the very good software licenses which are already available. We recommend considering licenses listed as free by the Free Software Foundation and listed as “open source” by the Open Source Initiative.


https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i- ... o-software

But sure, as you said: “My code, my decision”. But sometimes decisions are measurable wrong. But that’s okay. Keep using your non-free not-recommended-for-code licenses for your code. That’s legally absolutely fine, it is still measurably wrong.

TalkLounge wrote:But if you ban them in content db, you are doing censorship.

No, it’s called “terms of service”.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Tue Jul 30, 2019 18:18

Linuxdirk wrote:By the way, even the creator of this license suggests not using the licenses for code.

You can suggest me a other license than CC BY-NC, that have both aspects: BY & NC. And I will change to the license. :)

Linuxdirk wrote:No, it’s called “terms of service”.

You call it “terms of service”, I call it "censorship".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship wrote:Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by a government, private institutions, and corporations.

I call it "censorship".
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TumeniNodes » Tue Jul 30, 2019 19:04

What would be very nice... to be able to work in a clause where, if you are using the code for profit, not only must you display the license of the work you are using but, you should also be bound to donate a small % of the profits to the organization or individual the code is from. ; )

Nothing ridiculous, just a modest amount and either monthly, bi monthly or maybe even annually.

This might have one of two effects (or both)
#1-It might slow down the explosion of such rip offs

#2-It swings a little $ back to the dev/organization (which is always nice)
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Tue Jul 30, 2019 19:12

TumeniNodes wrote:What would be very nice... to be able to work in a clause where, if you are using the code for profit, not only must you display the license of the work you are using but, you should also be bound to donate a small % of the profits to the organization or individual the code is from.

If there would be such a license, I would switch to it. Instant.
Because currently there are only 2 options:
1. Let people use your code for commercial use and be open source
2. Let people not use your code for commercial use and don't be open source

And in my opinion, 2. is better. But I understand case 1.

Would be nice if there would be GPL, but with this clause.
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 19:36

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Yvanhoe » Wed Jul 31, 2019 02:13

TumeniNodes wrote:What would be very nice... to be able to work in a clause where, if you are using the code for profit, not only must you display the license of the work you are using but, you should also be bound to donate a small % of the profits to the organization or individual the code is from. ; )

Nothing ridiculous, just a modest amount and either monthly, bi monthly or maybe even annually.

This might have one of two effects (or both)
#1-It might slow down the explosion of such rip offs

#2-It swings a little $ back to the dev/organization (which is always nice)


The focus of free software license was to give users as much freedom as possible while forcine the code open. Being able to profit from a software is such a freedom. I wish the point would be made clearer by promoters of open source: free software does not mean "non profit".

The kind of licenses you are looking for are (or used to) be common in the academics and would state things like "This software is for research only. If you do research, please use this paragraph "..." as a citation. If you plan to distribute the software for any other purpose, contact sales@university.net"

Another problem with stating a mandatory share of profit in a license is that it is very hard to secure a license without loopholes. What if I package the software with other before selling it? What if I offer paid support? What if I sell it for in-game currencies? Also what taxes should we pay? VAT may apply in some countries and not others.

While nowadays there are easy and free APIs to fullfil an obligation to distribute sources, there is no such API to send a few cents to a mail address from one country to another. It makes such a license very hard to write.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Linuxdirk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 05:29

TalkLounge wrote:You can suggest me a other license than CC BY-NC, that have both aspects: BY & NC. And I will change to the license. :)

Neither do I know nor do I care about non-free licenses.

TalkLounge wrote:I call it "censorship".

It's still not correct.
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Chiantos » Wed Jul 31, 2019 07:41

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by Linuxdirk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:54

Chiantos wrote:THE DMCA did not work, but I managed to make him understand that I was not laughing. My license, my readme and modified files of my subgame are now available.

Congratulations!
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by rubenwardy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 13:06

TalkLounge wrote:I call it "censorship".


This is insulting to all the people who receive actual, real, and oppressive censorship
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by runs » Thu Aug 01, 2019 13:53

But if you ban them in content db, you are doing censorship.


Some notes:

If you put your mods under GPL you can't complain about others making money later (if they publish the source code). If you are not willing to do this, change the license to a more restrictive one.

You contradict yourself. You can do your mods in the license you want. Even with copyright all the rights reserved, etc. And no one's arguing with you, you have every right; but respect the freedom of others. Minetest is open source, so ContentDB should only be 100% or almost 100% open source licenses. It is in accordance with the philosophy of Minetest.

It's like the creator of Multicraft says you're censoring him because you won't let him put your mods because he makes money with ads. Incongruous, isn't it?
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Thu Aug 01, 2019 14:14

runs wrote:Minetest is open source, so ContentDB should only be 100% or almost 100% open source licenses.

So it's more important that the license is open source than have variety of mods etc.?
If so, you would contradict yourself. Support minetest forks, but want to ban mods...

If you ban my mods, I will still write them for my server but won't publish them then. That's not freedom at all. That's not that what you talking all time, when talking about forks.
Because in a few years, nobody will publish his mods in the forum any more. Everyone will use the content db.
The content db is the next step of making minetest more central and get more force other the project. In a game, what is proud of being so open, free and decentralized.

runs wrote:It's like the creator of Multicraft says you're censoring him because you won't let him put your mods because he makes money with ads. Incongruous, isn't it?

I have no problem with forks at all. Only if they violate licenses or being morally indefensible, because of less commits, but huge earnings. Just remember the video, the thread start with. In the pinned comment you can compare the downloads of minetest vs. all other forks. (And MultiCraft is still a example of a fork, because in my opinion, there would be no fork with ads, if multicraft wasn't created. Adding google ads to a game is not that easy)

And sure you can ban CC BY-NC licenses in content db. But that would be counterproductive to the variety of mods the minetest community profits from.
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TumeniNodes » Thu Aug 01, 2019 14:36

If you join a nudist beach, and sign the agreements... you can't complain because people are walking around neked.

I have stated before, that I fully agree with and support ContentDB following the same ideology as Minetest.

The licenses used by nearly the entire community, are free and open ones.
Nowhere in the licenses used, does it state which method someone can use to make $ from it. Be it via ads or donations. As long as they are following the terms as outlined in the license... the method they use for commercial purposes is up to them.

I wonder how much $ is even being made for these forks using ads... I honestly do not believe it can be any outstanding amount. Not an amount someone is going to become rich from.
Usually there is a one time fee to upload an app for google, sometimes there are more expensive set ups (up to $100.00US per year I think?)
Running random ads normally pays pennies on every so many dollars, and there are various requirements which make certain every half a cent is withheld... ("2 cents for every one million views of our ads") <crap like that.

I could be wrong of course (I probably am) because I honestly have never really looked into any of those methods to make money... it usually seems like more bother than it's actually worth in the end... probably make much more in less time with a gofundme for something completely stupid.
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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by runs » Thu Aug 01, 2019 15:04

So it's more important that the license is open source than have variety of mods etc.?


Yes. There are limits to things: No commercial mods, no sex, etc. But it is not exclusive, there can be other platforms with porn mods if someone wants.

This does not imply that other platforms could not coexist. In this same forum you can publish your CC mods. You don't have to hide your mods or not publish them. Simply that contentdb is not the right place.

The only thing I find incongruent is that contentdb belongs to only one person, the decision is exclusive to rubenwardy. ContentDB is hard-coded within Minetest (accessed through a button), not the contentdb website. So the website should be OpenSource and open to the communitty as well. Open Source linking to a private site? It's something strange and not right.

Only if they violate licenses or being morally indefensible


Are you confusing a license that is something legal with the moral that refers to the branch of philosophy that is ETHICS?

That's your problem, they're completely different things. If someone complies with the license he should not be blamed for any moral blemish.

PS: I cannot ban anything. I am nothing here :-D
 

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Re: DMCA for WorldCraft 3D.

by TalkLounge » Thu Aug 01, 2019 15:53

TumeniNodes wrote:I could be wrong of course

+ Just try yourself


runs wrote:Yes. There are limits to things: No commercial mods

Is CC BY-NC not enough anti commercial? Or what do you mean with that?

runs wrote:no sex

Forbid coarse language isn't the same like ban a license. Every mod needs a license, but you forbid some licenses, so you want that people will publish the mods under a specific license and don't have the freedom of all license. That's pressure with no reason, except that forks can use them in future as well and earn money with it.
And licenses can be changed. The topic of a mod not.

runs wrote:Simply that contentdb is not the right place.

In future all mods will be loaded over content db and not by adding them manual over the forum.

runs wrote:Are you confusing a license that is something legal with the moral that refers to the branch of philosophy that is ETHICS?

If the minetest community would fight against forks, that are illegal, because violating the license, there would be no problem to use a more free license(Almost no app in google play links that it's a minetest project).
But that didn't happen, so I need to use my legal weapons to fight against them, by using a more closed license. And if the publisher on google play would be more respectful and pay a bit of money back to minetest, there would be no reason for me to use more closed licenses.
Only when the moral is no longer working you need to have rules. And in this case, I use a more closed license.
If everyone would be kind, the world wouldn't need rules.

rubenwardy wrote:This is insulting to all the people who receive actual, real, and oppressive censorship

Of course the content db hasn't a big censorship. But let the people publish the mods, but don't show them is more censorship, than terms of service.
When it would be terms of service, you would forbid closed license and don't allow them, but don't show them.

runs wrote:PS: I cannot ban anything. I am nothing here :-D

But it's important to discuss about that. That will change the future of minetest, if closed licenses are allowed or not.
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