What makes a mob good?

cuthbertdoublebarrel
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

one of the main gripes i have about minetest is the games often look very vacant of life
I modded out MTG to the max with mobs decreasing the spawn multplier so the world was filled with creatures. i only percieved lag with silly amounts of large entities such as dragons bieng hunted by wolves. not sure if that was intentional or a bug . but mobs hunting other mobs should be exploited far more as it brings more action and depth to gameplay . for example if you have an excessive amount of farm animals roaming about as night falls they get taken out by predators .
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pampogokiraly
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by pampogokiraly » Post

cuthbertdoublebarrel wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 15:37
one of the main gripes i have about minetest is the games often look very vacant of life
I modded out MTG to the max with mobs decreasing the spawn multplier so the world was filled with creatures. i only percieved lag with silly amounts of large entities such as dragons bieng hunted by wolves. not sure if that was intentional or a bug . but mobs hunting other mobs should be exploited far more as it brings more action and depth to gameplay . for example if you have an excessive amount of farm animals roaming about as night falls they get taken out by predators .
The problem here that this is not nature...
Nature always keeps a nice balance in between predators and other animals.
MT have a problem with this because MT isn't aware to make a perfect nature, which would make which would lead to the extinction of some animal species. :P

I don't say that we shouldn't have some of this but it has to be a bit "unnatural" to keep the balance like how the RL nature does :)

oh, and one more thing: This is all just my opinion!
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cuthbertdoublebarrel
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by cuthbertdoublebarrel » Post

[quote=pampogokiraly post_id=375827 time=1592413491
The problem here that this is not nature...
Nature always keeps a nice balance in between predators and other animals.
MT have a problem with this because MT isn't aware to make a perfect nature, which would make which would lead to the extinction of some animal species. :P

I don't say that we shouldn't have some of this but it has to be a bit "unnatural" to keep the balance like how the RL nature does :)

oh, and one more thing: This is all just my opinion!
well of couse MT does not simulate RL and no nature does not keep a nice balance . yes we have the regulators . but human influnces have a far greater effect so there is no true balance now .
so nature is unnatural just like a game .
extintiction is an intresting point . and could be a gameplay feature if you do not protect the wild stock that you intend to tame later in the game .
but at a simple level . making some mobs that follow you with out fault and some that do not and do random silly things adds to the variety of the game play .
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pampogokiraly
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by pampogokiraly » Post

cuthbertdoublebarrel wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:41
well of couse MT does not simulate RL and no nature does not keep a nice balance . yes we have the regulators . but human influnces have a far greater effect so there is no true balance now .
so nature is unnatural just like a game .
extintiction is an intresting point . and could be a gameplay feature if you do not protect the wild stock that you intend to tame later in the game .
but at a simple level . making some mobs that follow you with out fault and some that do not and do random silly things adds to the variety of the game play .
As i said. There should be something like what you say, but we have to leave most of the animals out of this (imo) so there is going to be always some animal-life in the game.

But yes. Bringing some protected animal species that would die over time if the player doasen't protects them, would be a lot of fun :D
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by Sokomine » Post

pampogokiraly wrote: The problem here that this is not nature...
Nature always keeps a nice balance in between predators and other animals.
Not necessarily. The balance isn't always kept. A predator-prey-relationship is some of the first things that where simulated on computers: Predator catches prey, predator has more food to get more of its young ones through to reproduction age - more predators. The increased amount of predators need more food, thus the prey species is reduced in numbers. Not all predators find enough to eat, and some starve. This gives the prey species time to recover. And over again next year. At least in theory. Even without human intervention, some species or populations may die out sometimes.
pampogokiraly wrote: MT have a problem with this because MT isn't aware to make a perfect nature, which would make which would lead to the extinction of some animal species. :P
The main problem is that things in MT only happen in the tiny area of the world that is currently active due to players beeing nearby. Not much room for a realistic simulation of such processes.

And in a way the game isn't about simulating such predator-prey-relationships. It's more about what players who wander past animals and observe what they do expect: Wolfs showing zero intrest in sheep, and sheep loving to graze right next to wolves, even walking towards them? How strange. A single wolf walking over the map and killing sheep after sheep, eradicating the entire population withhin the hour? Equally strange. Expected behaviour would probably be (at least on my account): Sheep always try to flee from wolves. Wolves sometimes hunt and eat a sheep when the player is nearby. The not so easy trick lies in getting the timing right - how often should a wolf display this behaviour? Too rarely and the player may believe the feature doesn't exist. Too often and it looks unrealistic (where do all the replacement sheep come from?).
pampogokiraly wrote: But yes. Bringing some protected animal species that would die over time if the player doasen't protects them, would be a lot of fun :D
Not for me. It would limit freedom in gameplay as you can't do anymore what you want when you want to do it.
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pampogokiraly
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by pampogokiraly » Post

Sokomine wrote:Not for me. It would limit freedom in gameplay as you can't do anymore what you want when you want to do it.
Good point! I haven't actually tought about that :P
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by Gundul » Post

Sokomine wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 03:30

And in a way the game isn't about simulating such predator-prey-relationships. It's more about what players who wander past animals and observe what they do expect: Wolfs showing zero intrest in sheep, and sheep loving to graze right next to wolves, even walking towards them? How strange. A single wolf walking over the map and killing sheep after sheep, eradicating the entire population withhin the hour? Equally strange. Expected behaviour would probably be (at least on my account): Sheep always try to flee from wolves. Wolves sometimes hunt and eat a sheep when the player is nearby. The not so easy trick lies in getting the timing right - how often should a wolf display this behaviour? Too rarely and the player may believe the feature doesn't exist. Too often and it looks unrealistic (where do all the replacement sheep come from?).
This sounds like mobkit and wildlife mod. Only it is wolves and deers there. But it is balanced and works very good.
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by Sokomine » Post

Gundul wrote: This sounds like mobkit and wildlife mod. Only it is wolves and deers there. But it is balanced and works very good.
Only in part. Mobkit and wildlife are not perfect in this regard. As far as I could see, wolves are always hungry.
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by Gundul » Post

Sokomine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 16:33
Gundul wrote: This sounds like mobkit and wildlife mod. Only it is wolves and deers there. But it is balanced and works very good.
Only in part. Mobkit and wildlife are not perfect in this regard. As far as I could see, wolves are always hungry.
I do not think wildlife mod was designed to be perfect. It is Termos example mod to show some possibilities
of the mobkit mob api.

And when I watched the deers and wolves the first time I installed mobkit and wildlife, it let me forget about any other
mob api I saw before.

Adding hunger would be possible for wolves, too. I did so in the wildlife fork I made, where deers get more or less
hungry depending on their actions. Still very basic, though. And also far from being perfect :)
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Re: What makes a mob good?

by Sokomine » Post

Gundul wrote: And when I watched the deers and wolves the first time I installed mobkit and wildlife, it let me forget about any other
mob api I saw before.
That's right. They're great! And I felt sorry for those poor deers, even though they wheren't animated in any way. But on the other hand the wolves are too hungry.
Gundul wrote: Adding hunger would be possible for wolves, too. I did so in the wildlife fork I made, where deers get more or less
hungry depending on their actions. Still very basic, though. And also far from being perfect :)
I don't think it's overly relevant for deers. Plant eaters need to spend a lot of time eating plants (and then again re-eating them) to get enough energy, so it's ok to see them either eating, looking around/beeing afraid or sleeping. It's a lot diffrent for meat eaters. But it's great that they all get hunger as well :-)
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