Suggestion for ContentDB- making custom games

[eyekay]

I have a suggestion for the ContentDB website by which we can make custom games with whichever mods we wish to add in it, and download it as a zip file so that it can be easily distributed. And because it would run on ContentDB it will include all dependencies of those mods as well.
I have attached a picture of how it can look:

As you can see we will be able to choose the name, images, base game (the game we want to mod), and mods. And then we can easily download the readymade file. This can be very useful so that we don't have to download each mod separately, and we can share this game with our friends as well who are new to Minetest and don't want to extract and install all the mods individually on a phone device. This is also useful for mobile devices for installing custom games (there was an app which installed mods from ContentDB on Google play but I can't find it anymore) or devices like my PC on which the Content tab does not work at all. Could this feature please be added to the website?

[Hume2]

This would be definitely a good idea to have something like this. I will just name a few problems which might arise. I don't say that they can't be solved though.

• A mod might need additional configuration or tweak to work well in the game.
• The game might require an extra mod which would be useless in other games. It is then questionable if such mod should be shared among other mods.

Maybe there could be a tool which creates you a git repository containing all the chosen mods as submodules.

[eyekay]

I will just name a few problems which might arise. I don't say that they can't be solved though.

I have a few ideas for the solutions for these potential problems:

A mod might need additional configuration or tweak to work well in the game.

Perhaps it can have a option for editing the settingtypes.txt in the mod, if it exists. Or maybe the mod authors can also decide which file we can edit here while publishing the mod to ContentDB (this may require several changes to ContentDB.)

The game might require an extra mod which would be useless in other games. It is then questionable if such mod should be shared among other mods.

The 'add-on' mods can be a part of a separate modpack which can be removed at will. Or inversely, the mods of the base game could be in a separate modpack (for example, in the game hamlets_quest, the mods from Minetest Game are kept in a separate modpack, mtg_mods.)
Also, if I understand this point correctly, this should be a problem with a lot of games for Minetest which are based on other games.

[Hume2]

Perhaps it can have a option for editing the settingtypes.txt in the mod, if it exists. Or maybe the mod authors can also decide which file we can edit here while publishing the mod to ContentDB (this may require several changes to ContentDB.)

It would be nice if the game could override the default settings of its mod. However, there can't be basically a setting for everything so it is possible that someone will need to tweak the code anyway. I'm not sure about allowing the people to modify some of the files. If the GUI should be capable of modifying files, I would allow them to modify any files since it's open-source and anyone can do it anyway.

The 'add-on' mods can be a part of a separate modpack which can be removed at will. Or inversely, the mods of the base game could be in a separate modpack (for example, in the game hamlets_quest, the mods from Minetest Game are kept in a separate modpack, mtg_mods.)
Also, if I understand this point correctly, this should be a problem with a lot of games for Minetest which are based on other games.

I think, you didn't get my point. I'm talking about a mod which is an essential part of a game but it relies on other functions typical only to that game so it is unuseable anywhere else.

[Zughy]

I think it's a good idea, but it should be featured on the very launcher instead. This will highlight the concept it's an engine and not a game

[eyekay]

If the GUI should be capable of modifying files, I would allow them to modify any files since it's open-source and anyone can do it anyway.

Yes, this is even better than my original idea!

I'm talking about a mod which is an essential part of a game but it relies on other functions typical only to that game so it is unuseable anywhere else.

I am sorry, but I still don't understand. Are you referring to game as in the base game being modded or the modded game which the user will download?

[Hume2]

I am sorry, but I still don't understand. Are you referring to game as in the base game being modded or the modded game which the user will download?

I'm talking about the modded game which the user will download.

[eyekay]

I'm talking about the modded game which the user will download.

I am terribly sorry, but I am still unable to understand. Could you please give an example of such a situation?

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

I think, you didn't get my point. I'm talking about a mod which is an essential part of a game but it relies on other functions typical only to that game so it is unuseable anywhere else.

should not all mods be universally compatible?
if remember correctly Wuzzy made notes in the MC2 core folder referring to how to change mods that are reliant on the core game so they work independently.
from what I see those core mods are just adaptations of pre existing mods,
can you give us an example of a few in game functions that you know are not adapations of pre existing mods ?

[rubenwardy]

I don't like this idea.

Good games are more than a collection of mods on top of MTG. If they were just that, then there's no need for games - you could just use a modpack. Good games customise their content to achieve polish, and often aren't based on Minetest Game at all.

I've been planning on adding support for "light modpacks" - a way to make a package in ContentDB that is empty, but instead causes other mods to be downloaded. This would allow creating mod packs without duplicating the mods in a download, it would be dependency-based through ContentDB. This would be functionally very similar to what is suggested here

[Hume2]

should not all mods be universally compatible?
if remember correctly Wuzzy made notes in the MC2 core folder referring to how to change mods that are reliant on the core game so they work independently.
from what I see those core mods are just adaptations of pre existing mods,
can you give us an example of a few in game functions that you know are not adapations of pre existing mods ?

It might not even make sense to run the mod without that game. For example, my game Box World 3D has a mod "boxworld" which handles all game logic. It really makes no sense to use this mod in a different game.

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

I have a suggestion for the ContentDB website by which we can make custom games with whichever mods we wish to add in it, and download it as a zip file so that it can be easily distributed

this is really a top idea and exactly the feature this community needs to showcase all the content .there is so much great content under the hood that does not appear in the prebuilt games avialble on the launcher
dreambuilder is an example of this as is does not have the restictions on expanding that the pre built games have . but for a newbie to add and remove content to thier own prefrences it is a daunting task .
first off we need to find out what indiviuals here are combining such as the boimes and mobs .also the go to universal helpers, map tools etc that make the game engine more userfriendly and enjoyable for a newbie .
i really think you should run with this as it is certianly moving in the right direction ,

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

It might not even make sense to run the mod without that game. For example, my game Box World 3D has a mod "boxworld" which handles all game logic. It really makes no sense to use this mod in a different game.

thats understandable as its not a derivative of mincraft which was what this engine was specifically developed for .
but there is nothing wrong at all with that . infact there should be a link in the launcher to highlight those that do not fall under the umbrella of clone or close adaptation,

[eyekay]

Good games are more than a collection of mods on top of MTG.

I never mentioned any specific base game- it could be any game on ContentDB.

I've been planning on adding support for "light modpacks" - a way to make a package in ContentDB that is empty, but instead causes other mods to be downloaded. This would allow creating mod packs without duplicating the mods in a download, it would be dependency-based through ContentDB. This would be functionally very similar to what is suggested here

How would that work? Will it trigger separate downloads for all the mods selected? Because my suggestion isn't related to that. The main aim in my suggestion is to bundle the base game along with the mod in a single file, as opposed to downloading and extracting all the files separately, which is very tedious especially on mobile devices (my phone for example doesn't let me extract multiple zip files at once.

It might not even make sense to run the mod without that game. For example, my game Box World 3D has a mod "boxworld" which handles all game logic. It really makes no sense to use this mod in a different game.

But boxworld isn't separately available, right? It is included with Box World 3D, and would be included only if Box World 3D is selected as the base game. (Though I don't know if there are any mods for Box World 3D, I had never heard of it before)

thats understandable as its not a derivative of mincraft which was what this engine was specifically developed for

Huh?

[rubenwardy]

I never mentioned any specific base game- it could be any game on ContentDB.

But that is what will happen, and this applies to all games anyway

The main aim in my suggestion is to bundle the base game along with the mod in a single file, as opposed to downloading and extracting all the files separately, which is very tedious especially on mobile devices (my phone for example doesn't let me extract multiple zip files at once.

Yes it would, and Minetest supports downloading content through the main menu so no need to worry about zip files on your phone

[eyekay]

I don't want to go off-topic, but
1. The content tab never works for me. Either it won't show anything, or will fail to download requested mod, or it will download the mod and then I would never find where it went ever again, because it isn't in any Minetest-related directory, or in the Downloads folder, or the android storage root folder.
2. It doesn't let us choose which game to install said mod to.
(To prove a point, I just opened Minetest on my PC, downloaded XDecor from the Content tab, and it downloaded it to .minetest/mods. I don't know how mods located here are loaded, and on my PC it seems it isn't loaded in any game. If I have played Minetest for 3-4 years and I don't know that, you can't expect a newcomer to Minetest to know that as well.)

Also I checked the extracting multiple zip files thing on my phone before writing that :)

[rubenwardy]

I don't want to go off-topic, but

This is on topic

1. The content tab never works for me. Either it won't show anything, or will fail to download requested mod, or it will download the mod and then I would never find where it went ever again, because it isn't in any Minetest-related directory, or in the Downloads folder, or the android storage root folder.

The content tab taking a while to load is a known issue, but it should work. Issues should be filed if it doesn't work

2. It doesn't let us choose which game to install said mod to.
(To prove a point, I just opened Minetest on my PC, downloaded XDecor from the Content tab, and it downloaded it to .minetest/mods. I don't know how mods located here are loaded, and on my PC it seems it isn't loaded in any game. If I have played Minetest for 3-4 years and I don't know that, you can't expect a newcomer to Minetest to know that as well.)

The mods folder is the correct place to install mods. You enable mods for a world by clicking "configure"

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

I don't like this idea.

Good games are more than a collection of mods on top of MTG. If they were just that, then there's no need for games - you could just use a modpack. Good games customise their content to achieve polish, and often aren't based on Minetest Game at all.

do you mean "polished" as in sonic robo blast 2 which originated as a mod for the doom engine and become a fully fledged game independent of doom with it own site and features mods to expand and extend gameplay .?

you refer to the "minetest game" according to comments in the community it should be removed to promote other games , so is the focus now on games that are not based on minetest the open source alternative to minecraft . ?

I've been planning on adding support for "light modpacks" - a way to make a package in ContentDB that is empty, but instead causes other mods to be downloaded. This would allow creating mod packs without duplicating the mods in a download, it would be dependency-based through ContentDB. This would be functionally very similar to what is suggested here

would we have the choice of what "other" mods can be downloaded or will this be your preference as to what consists of a good game ?

As someome who has modded out game engines in the past to provide the best entertaiment value along with thousands of others your approach is rather baffling if you intend to remove the base game .

[rubenwardy]

you refer to the "minetest game" according to comments in the community it should be removed to promote other games , so is the focus now on games that are not based on minetest the open source alternative to minecraft . ?

Minetest is not Minetest Game. Minetest Game is the default game that ships with Minetest, but there are alternatives.

would we have the choice of what "other" mods can be downloaded or will this be your preference as to what consists of a good game ?

You would be able to include any mods in a light mod pack, ContentDB won't even check if the mods will conflict (because it doesn't attempt to run them)

The "Light" refers to the fact that the mod pack doesn't actually exist as a single archive, it's just a list of mods to install. This saves on resources and duplication, and it becomes easier to create, curate, and update mod packs

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

Minetest is not Minetest Game. Minetest Game is the default game that ships with Minetest, but there are alternatives.

ok lets put it another way what is the base you recommend to use the light mod pack with ? keeping in mind that not all the games except modding
would it not be an idea to test what mods conflict so we have database of recommendations so the light mod pack is a postive venture rather than hit and miss ?

[runs]

I don't like this idea.

Good games are more than a collection of mods on top of MTG. If they were just that, then there's no need for games - you could just use a modpack. Good games customise their content to achieve polish, and often aren't based on Minetest Game at all.

I disagree with that. And because my game, Juanchi Game, is based on just that.

A good game is a good game, period. Minetest Game is cool.

My game uses Minetest Game as a base and adds mods, but they are well integrated, stunning textures, polished, selected and adapted to work together correctly.

People don't want to waste time downloading and trying out incompatible mods and all that stuff that can cause headaches.

If you give it all to them properly chewed people will be happy.

[rubenwardy]

A good game is a good game, period. Minetest Game is cool.

My game uses Minetest Game as a base and adds mods, but they are well integrated, stunning textures, polished, selected and adapted to work together correctly.

People don't want to waste time downloading and trying out incompatible mods and all that stuff that can cause headaches.

If you give it all to them properly chewed people will be happy.

Is making it possible to low-effort create games actually going to produce good games? I don't think so. Having a way to make modpacks as mod collections is much more useful.

ok lets put it another way what is the base you recommend to use the light mod pack with ? keeping in mind that not all the games except modding

Whatever the user wants. My point is that you get the same effect as this feature request, without the negatives. You could also install multiple mod packs at a time

would it not be an idea to test what mods conflict so we have database of recommendations so the light mod pack is a postive venture rather than hit and miss ?

You'd hope the user would try it out first

[eyekay]

Is making it possible to low-effort create games actually going to produce good games?

The regular user doesn't want to create games to submit in the forum, he/she just wants to download their favourite game config (example- MTG, farming redo and TenPlus1's mobs in my case) quickly and easily incase he/she loses their current copy of the game they had made by adding mods to a subgame.

[cuthbertdoublebarrel]

Is making it possible to low-effort create games actually going to produce good games?

The regular user doesn't want to create games to submit in the forum, he/she just wants to download their favourite game config (example- MTG, farming redo and TenPlus1's mobs in my case) quickly and easily incase he/she loses their current copy of the game they had made by adding mods to a subgame.

yep same here i want more entities as it adds more life and action to the gameplay .
reducing the spawn chance to 0 and the forest becomes alive with creatures
there is huge list here https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs
which you are never going to see unless they have been incorperated into a game .
rubenwardy appears to think that mods are low effort and not be used unless they are incoperated into a game that meets with his approval .
get the distinct impression that the following applies
a person who feels an obsessive need to exercise control over themselves and others

[rubenwardy]

I've realised that I've misread, and you're referring to a tool that creates archives only, and not new games on ContentDB. This is something that is more acceptable and can be done as a standalone tool, even. ContentDB exposes an API

rubenwardy appears to think that mods are low effort and not be used unless they are incoperated into a game that meets with his approval .

No, mods can be very cool. What is low effort is combining premade mods using a web UI, without modification or any insurance that they've been tried

...a game that meets with his approval .
get the distinct impression that the following applies
a person who feels an obsessive need to exercise control over themselves and others

Nowhere did I say that I need to approve games or curate content. ContentDB is strictly a non-curated place, because curation is unfair and subjective